Plinkett's Episode 3 review!!!!!

[RJMacReady16]

All shameless bashing of the PT aside, he really just reminded me with that quick scene in Episode IV of how great they could've made the relationship between Obi and Anakin over the course of 2 films, and how devastating the fall could've been by pt. 3.

Dang.

 

[DiFabio]

The majority of fans have felt the prequels were weak from day 1. That right there proves to me that there must be something wrong.

They're in no way relate-able to the Original Trilogy as far as I'm concerned. The Prequels just deviated too far off to be considered canon or actual history to Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi (though, I will admit that Jedi could have been a much stronger film and that the whole "brother and sister/sibling" was a bit contrived and the start of this awkward Prequel nonsense).

Anyway, it's obvious to me that somewhere in George Lucas' brain, his original vision was skewed and narratives changed. He didn't have this story in his head from day one, it's that simple and as plain as day in his films.

 

[Starkiller]

The majority of fans have felt the prequels were weak from day 1. That right there proves to me that there must be something wrong.

They're in no way relate-able to the Original Trilogy as far as I'm concerned. The Prequels just deviated too far off to be considered canon or actual history to Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi (though, I will admit that Jedi could have been a much stronger film and that the whole "brother and sister/sibling" was a bit contrived and the start of this awkward Prequel nonsense).

Anyway, it's obvious to me that somewhere in George Lucas' brain, his original vision was skewed and narratives changed. He didn't have this story in his head from day one, it's that simple and as plain as day in his films.

Even though he claimed he had the story arc and major plot points in his head from day one. Which is why he didn't even have a rough draft of a script during preproduction right?

 

[DiFabio]

Which is why he didn't even have a rough draft of a script during preproduction right?

"They're already building sets. God help me, I'm going to have to start this script pretty soon."

 

[Khev]

Comparing ROTJ to ROTS is like comparing a Lamborghini to a anything made by Chevy. They are just in completely different atmospheres. ROTJ is my favorite of the OT, and doesn't commit anything that Plinkett says ROTS did.

Almost everything he complains about can be attributed to ROTJ. He spends five minutes going off about how everyone is "blind and stupid" in ROTS, and rants about how Obi-Wan doesn't rush Grievous and kill him more efficiently on Utapau.

Well I guess ROTJ sucks now because it was pretty stupid for it not to occur to Vader that his precious Luke, who he spends an entire movie pursuing, might actually go to Tatooine and try to rescue, oh I don't know, the same guy he tried to rescue on Cloud City! And why does the Rebellion allow half of their most critical high command to conduct such a daring rescue attempt without any support?

Even without support, why the ridiculously elaborate plan where everyone gets captured just so they can fight over the Sarlacc Pit and have R2 turn the tide by shooting Luke his lightsaber? They already proved that Luke could stroll into the palace unchallenged and that the entire court could be held at bay with one measly thermal detonator.

But Obi-Wan's an idiot for having a prolonged fight with Grievous and the heroes in Jabba's palace are a bunch of badasses. Right.

Inefficient but cinematic tactics have been a part of Star Wars from the beginning. Why else would ANYONE on Yavin watch the Death Star battle from the ground??? Its not like they're stranded. We have this incredibly exciting battle when literally every single good guy who's life was supposedly at stake could have gotten in their ships when the DS showed up and peaced out. Leia and everyone are all concerned as the countdown to the Death Star's approach looms near. How about get in a spaceship and go somewhere else instead?

Why did the Death Star even orbit the planet in the first place? Just blow it up! Blow up Yavin, then blow up the moon the Rebels refuse to escape from. The end. Plinkett chides Grievous for being a "General" and not having more sound military strategy. Please, he forgets what universe these movies take place in.

I'll say it again, his reviews on TPM and AOTC were hysterical. But I just watched some of "Part 2" of the ROTS review and it really is just more uninspired double standard prequel bashing.

 

[CelticPredator]

You keep missing the point that without characters you care about, the movie is worthless. No matter how silly things got in ROTJ you STILL cared about Han, Leia, Luke...ect
There's no one worth caring about in the PT. No one.

 

[Khev]

You keep missing the point that without characters you care about, the movie is worthless.

I'm aware that if you aren't invested in a movie's characters then any tension of conflict is pretty much moot because you don't care what happens. That's not what we're talking about here. Plinkett apparently spends hours trashing nearly every single element of prequel minutiae. My point is that many of the elements he's trashing are also in the OT, and to set them apart for dissection only to enhance the notion that the PT sucks is pretty silly.

The PT *is* inferior, IMO, but not to the level he suggests and for primarily two reasons (not 10,000.) The first is the overuse of bluescreen and CGI. Everything he says about it is spot on. The second is that the PT just doesn't sell why Padme would care at all about Anakin. The destruction of the Jedi and formation of the Empire is all set up by Anakin and Padme's tragic love for each other. Having that crux of the story fall flat was huge. That's why I think the prequels are best if you remove AOTC. Since they obviously couldn't show a viable love story, its best if you just skip to ROTS and infer it.

 

[icruise]

There's plenty of questionable logic in the OT, it's true. But nobody cares because those movies were so much fun to watch, and because we cared about the characters. And I also don't think the problems were as bad, because the plot of the OT didn't involve things like political machinations, trade federations, pan-galactic war campaigns, and all of the other stuff Lucas tried to tackle. There's also not nearly as much of the "two characters sitting/walking and talking" dynamic that Lucas became so fond of.

 

[Customikey]

I love these reviews because they help me realize exactly WHY I can't stand to sit and watch any of the PT. I knew it was something (the characters, the cgi, the "politics"), but i couldn't put my finger on it.

 

[pixletwin]

The PT *is* inferior, IMO, but not to the level he suggests and for primarily two reasons (not 10,000.)

Well Khev the "level" to which the PT is inferior is purely subjective. In other words it's a matter of opinion. So it's best to acknowledge that you agree with his points (if not the degree to which he believes they harmed the films).

To argue a point of opinion is a waste of time.

 

[Khev]

There's also not nearly as much of the "two characters sitting/walking and talking" dynamic that Lucas became so fond of.

Not in the OT per se, but "two talking heads as SW exposition" was practically pioneered in ROTJ. Half the movie is two characters sitting in a hut, on a log, or leaning against railings and talking to each other. The Han/Lando exchange in front of the Falcon is the epitome of Plinkett's complaints; bad dialogue badly acted in front of a poorly convincing backdrop the characters aren't even aware of. The first 30 minutes of the movie are just characters standing in front of Jabba.

ROTJ just coasts on the fact that we like all those characters because of what they did in previous movies. Nothing that Han or Vader in particular do in ROTJ would have ever made them cultural icons. Luke is "cool" but really isn't tested at any point in the movie. He kind of casually breezes and has victory throughout the film until a few minutes of lightning from the Emperor.

But its fun, and has some great iconic moments in spite of itself (moreso than ROTS I'll admit), and such mean-spiritedness just seems out of place for both trilogies. They are both flawed and both fun. I think if you really want to compartmentalize people should stop the OT vs. PT silliness. It really should be ANH and ESB vs. ROTJ and the PT. That would be a more apt and accurate distinction.

 

[Amanaman]

I think if you really want to compartmentalize people should stop the OT vs. PT silliness. It really should be ANH and ESB vs. ROTJ and the PT. That would be a more apt and accurate distinction.

ROTJ has structural problems, lack of imagination (Death Star II), and it really feels like a two-hour commercial for Ewoks and Jabba-related merchandise. In any case, it wraps things up nicely even if hastily for the strong characters developed in ESB, so it isn't too bad. Since both ROTS and ROTJ are climaxes to their arcs, they are generally more fun to watch, because things get done. ROTJ gets my edge because it is lighthearted and part of the OT.

 

[rubio95]

The PT *is* inferior, IMO, but not to the level he suggests and for primarily two reasons (not 10,000.) The first is the overuse of bluescreen and CGI. Everything he says about it is spot on. The second is that the PT just doesn't sell why Padme would care at all about Anakin. The destruction of the Jedi and formation of the Empire is all set up by Anakin and Padme's tragic love for each other. Having that crux of the story fall flat was huge. That's why I think the prequels are best if you remove AOTC. Since they obviously couldn't show a viable love story, its best if you just skip to ROTS and infer it.

Which is why you would think that an Academy Award-caliber cast could help sell it.

Fail.

 

[Jmek]

Well one things for sure, even though youse guys don't like the prequels, you sure spend a helluva lot of time talking about them!

 

[ShadowX81]

Nothing that Han or Vader in particular do in ROTJ would have ever made them cultural icons.

What about Vader deciding to betray the Emporer in the throne room at the end? That is probaby my favorite scene of his.

 

[pixletwin]

Agreed. I would say Vader's last 15 minutes in RotJ are the very definition of iconic.

 

[Khev]

What about Vader deciding to betray the Emporer in the throne room at the end? That is probaby my favorite scene of his.

One of the best scenes in ROTJ, no doubt, but hardly culturally iconic. I'm not talking about geek icons. Pretty much every element in all six movies is iconic to us because we know them like the back of our hands. I'm talking culturally, outside of diehard SW buffs. You never see or hear a reference to Vader picking up the Emperor or saying "tell your sister you were right..." Ever. Those are important moments to us because of what Vader did in previous movies.

The icons that everyone knows from ROTJ are Jabba, Leia's bikini, and ewoks. Nothing from Vader or Han, and very little if anything from Luke. If you see a reference to Vader on Friends, Toy Story 2, Tommy Boy, Conan O'brien, etc., its always regarding something established in ANH (like his costume or breathing) or TESB ('I am your father,') never ROTJ.

 

[icruise]

I think you're reaching a bit. Even if Luke and Vader's sections aren't quite as memorable, there is plenty of iconic stuff in ROTJ as a whole. I don't think you can say that about the prequels. In other words, I don't think we're going to see references to any of the PT characters in pop culture in 20 years the way we still do with, say, characters from the Jabba sequences. With the possible exception of Jar Jar...

 

[Khev]

I think you're reaching a bit. Even if Luke and Vader's sections aren't quite as memorable, there is plenty of iconic stuff in ROTJ as a whole.

And I made mention of that. The Jabba and ewok sequences alone are half the movie. I think you're forgetting the context of my original comments. ROTJ made Vader and Han weaker characters than they were previously. I just think that's good to remember when ripping on ROTS for assuming that it would have "ruined" Han had he shown up, and that Vader's "Nooooo!" is somehow more damaging than his "aaaaah!" ROTS just continued the precedent set by ROTJ. Static talking heads intercut every so often with a fight. That doesn't mean anyone has to suddenly like ROTS as much as ROTJ or think Grievous is as cool as Jabba, my point is only that the quality of filmmaking is very similar.

I don't think you can say that about the prequels. In other words, I don't think we're going to see references to any of the PT characters in pop culture in 20 years the way we still do with, say, characters from the Jabba sequences. With the possible exception of Jar Jar...

Maybe Jar Jar, Darth Maul, perhaps "You were the Chose One!" But I also think that if Lucas was hit by a car and went into a coma in 1983 and for whatever reason 20th Century Fox couldn't release ROTJ without his blessing, and then this year he came out of his coma and we FINALLY got to see the conclusion of the legendary SW and ESB here in 2010 people would be laughing their ***** off every bit as much as they did with the PT. Plinkett would be posting reviews saying "THIS is what we waited for?" and he'd show the scene with Han talking to Lando or Leia saying "hold me" and we'd here sitcom laughter in the background.

So I take such opinions with a grain of salt since I know that while the PT could never be TESB, they certainly are as fun and flawed as ROTJ. And ROTJ has brought me many years of enjoyment.

 

[CelticPredator]

Um...no they wouldnt. I'm sorry, but you are really trying very hard to defend the pile of dung that is ROTS. The end of that movie is pointless. We never felt bad for Anakin because he is scum. From the second film until now, he was a horrible person. Anakin and Obi Wan were never really friends, so there was no tension there....

But you constantly attack and compare ROTJ with ROTS when that comparsion is pretty hard to grasp.

I have to keep repeating it because you're not getting the point i'm trying to make

Characters make the movie. Without them your movie is pointless. The reason why ROTJ made people happy was because there was a finality to it. When it was over, and everything worked out in the end, you felt good. Really good. Vader redeemed himself, saved his son, and destroyed the Empire. Ewokes, bad jokes, all that nonsense is just semtics. The characters and their journey is what's important. Not Ewoks. Not Jar Jar. The characters.

If the PT had characters who were all just as engaging and interesting as the OT, then a character like Jar Jar wouldnt be that big of a deal. But they werent interesting. They were all _______s. Especially Anakin. Who you're supposed to feel sorry for. But you dont.

Characters > Everything else in a movie. A crappy story can still be amazing with the right characters.