Plinkett's Episode 3 review!!!!!

[Khev]

Um...no they wouldnt.

No they wouldn't what? You might want to quote what you're responding to. And again, people care about the heroes of ROTJ because of what they did and endured in ANH and TESB, not anything new they did in ROTJ. Important distinction to recognize when discussing the merits of each episode as its own piece of self-contained filmmaking.

 

[rubio95]

No they wouldn't what? You might want to quote what you're responding to. And again, people care about the heroes of ROTJ because of what they did and endured in ANH and TESB, not anything new they did in ROTJ. Important distinction to recognize when discussing the merits of each episode as its own piece of self-contained filmmaking.

Khev, I think that your posts are true. I hadn't thought about ROTJ like that, but dammit if I don't agree.

Good reads, gents.

But there is no saving ROTS.

"I have the high ground!!"

 

[Khev]

But there is no saving ROTS.

"I have the high ground!!"

Yeah, the high ground did wonders for Darth Maul.

 

[LOTRFan]

Agreed. I would say Vader's last 15 minutes in RotJ are the very definition of iconic.

There is absolutely nothing as iconic in the entire PT as Vader's funeral pyre.



I would contest that there is precious little to be considered iconic at all in the PT (Darth Maul being one exception) but that has been dealt with exhaustively.

 

[RJMacReady16]

But its fun, and has some great iconic moments in spite of itself (moreso than ROTS I'll admit), and such mean-spiritedness just seems out of place for both trilogies. They are both flawed and both fun. I think if you really want to compartmentalize people should stop the OT vs. PT silliness. It really should be ANH and ESB vs. ROTJ and the PT. That would be a more apt and accurate distinction.

I guess I'm not seeing how a good movie that was weaker than the other two of a great trilogy, is therefore somehow comparable to 3 of the worst films in the past 20 years. It sounds like hyperbole, but at this point they really are serious contenders for that title.

And I'm no raging fan of ROTJ, either. That ******* very easily marks the "beginning of the end"....but come on.

 

[icruise]

I guess I'm not seeing how a good movie that was weaker than the other two of a great trilogy, is therefore somehow comparable to 3 of the worst films in the past 20 years. It sounds like hyperbole, but at this point they really are serious contenders for that title.

Now you're just being silly. Maybe you could argue that they are the worst in proportion to the amount of hype and attention they got, but worst period? Give me a break.

 

[RJMacReady16]

Now you're just being silly. Maybe you could argue that they are the worst in proportion to the amount of hype and attention they got, but worst period? Give me a break.

Like I said, I know it sounds like hyperbole. But really.

Those movies systematically break every rule of cinema and storytelling. More so than anything I can think of.

No breaks here.

 

[pixletwin]

Jabba's lair isn't iconic? The Endor speeder bike chase isn't iconic? There are many things in RotJ which weren't derivative of anything in the previous 2 movies that I think many average fans consider iconic.

 

[The Mike]

Haven't seen the review but I will add to the conversation at hand. I love a lot of the prequel designs including characters, ships and locales. They stand on their own much better than folded into the film itself. The films are bad, the films aren't well written or well directed but they definitely have awesome "parts" to it. I actually like ROTJ, more than ANH (I know blasphemy) and I'd hold the prequels right around there, all three at the same level.

I will say this. I ____ING LOVE THE SOUNDTRACKS. Just as memorable as the OT.

 

[DiFabio]

It really should be ANH and ESB vs. ROTJ and the PT. That would be a more apt and accurate distinction.

I'd be game for that honestly.

While I don't view ROTJ as bad as the prequels, it's not without its faults. The Luke/Leia sibling crap felt forced, the character exchanges were strange, Ewoks, etc. The ending celebration is kind of weird too.

We're all talking about caring for characters but, Han Solo seems REALLY different in ROTJ, almost unlikable. The character we saw in Star Wars and Empire is nonexistent in ROTJ but of course we're reminded, "hey, it's me". No it's not. Where the character should be thankful that he's alive we get a bitter fool that seems to be annoyed by everything.

In fact, all the characters except maybe Luke seem like larger caricatures of what they were in the previous films. Luke is the only one that really evolves, while the others are just one-dimensional.

However, let me reiterate that they aren't PREQUEL bad. Things like the beginning with Jabba's palace, meeting the Emperor and the final confrontation with Darth Vader is fantastic stuff. The father/son thing pays of as does Vader's choice to end the Emperor. That whole sequence is fantastic.

But, it's not as strong as SW and Empire and that's what makes it weak. It also suffers from a few writing/character issues.

Really, I think the Star Wars films are in the order in which they debuted in terms of quality. Maybe have Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back be interchangeable with #1 and #2 and Attack of the Clones and Revenge of The Sith with #5 and #6.

 

[OSCORP]

I will say this. I ____ING LOVE THE SOUNDTRACKS. Just as memorable as the OT.

Only good thing about them pretty much.

 

[SwedishHeat]

The father/son thing pays of as does Vader's choice to end the Emperor. That whole sequence is fantastic.

The thing I'm just now noticing, is that Vader tossing the Emperor down the shaft is almost as impulsive a move as him joining the Emperor in the first place.

Luke spent an hour or so talking with him 'convincing' him he's still a good guy, then he just picks up the Emperor and throws him into a bottomless pit, it's almost as savage as laying waste to the whole Jedi Temple. Vader is a pretty beastly dude.

 

[Starkiller]

The thing I'm just now noticing, is that Vader tossing the Emperor down the shaft is almost as impulsive a move as him joining the Emperor in the first place.

Luke spent an hour or so talking with him 'convincing' him he's still a good guy, then he just picks up the Emperor and throws him into a bottomless pit, it's almost as savage as laying waste to the whole Jedi Temple. Vader is a pretty beastly dude.

The "turn to the dark side" was just so unnatural and quick, and poorly written and poorly acted.

His impulse was due to that thing deep inside of him that saw his son in pain and about to die. And whatever good that was left in Vader that Luke still saw and felt came through for him. The PT turn to the darkside was just well lame....one minute he's contemplating on helping Mace or Palpatine, he clearly makes a mistake and gets lied too and he still bows to him..it's so dumb/

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

The thing I'm just now noticing, is that Vader tossing the Emperor down the shaft is almost as impulsive a move as him joining the Emperor in the first place.

Luke spent an hour or so talking with him 'convincing' him he's still a good guy, then he just picks up the Emperor and throws him into a bottomless pit, it's almost as savage as laying waste to the whole Jedi Temple. Vader is a pretty beastly dude.

Vader had been struggling between his feelings for his son and the pull of the darkside for the entire movie up to that point (it really begins in ESB, which is why he tries to turn Luke so he won't be forced to kill him), seeing his son pushed to the brink of death by the Emperor was just the straw that finally broke the camel's back. It wasn't impulsive at all.

 

[abake]

The "turn to the dark side" was just so unnatural and quick, and poorly written and poorly acted.

His impulse was due to that thing deep inside of him that saw his son in pain and about to die. And whatever good that was left in Vader that Luke still saw and felt came through for him. The PT turn to the darkside was just well lame....one minute he's contemplating on helping Mace or Palpatine, he clearly makes a mistake and gets lied too and he still bows to him..it's so dumb/

Actually, it made perfect sense to me. Anakin wanted to protect and save Padmé above all, so when confronted with the choice of either backing Windu or Palpatine he backs Palpatine because he's the one who can help him save Padmé.
After the deed he does realize he has done something terrible, but then it's too late, he feels there's no going back, so he pledges himself fully to Palpatine to save the only thing he has left: Padmé.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Vader had been struggling between his feelings for his son and the pull of the darkside for the entire movie up to that point (it really begins in ESB, which is why he tries to turn Luke so he won't be forced to kill him), seeing his son pushed to the brink of death by the Emperor was just the straw that finally broke the camel's back. It wasn't impulsive at all.

Tossing a guy down an elevator shaft is an impulsive decision. That's not something you think about for a while. Vader wasn't on Endor thinking about a good way to kill the Emperor, he made that decision in a split second when the Emperor started shocking Luke.

That's impulsive.

And in that sense, the poor scripting of the Prequels which is rationalized as impetuous youth on Anakin's part enlightens Vader's actions in the OT.

 

[pixletwin]

Tossing a guy down an elevator shaft is an impulsive decision. That's not something you think about for a while. Vader wasn't on Endor thinking about a good way to kill the Emperor, he made that decision in a split second when the Emperor started shocking Luke.

That's impulsive.

And in that sense, the poor scripting of the Prequels which is rationalized as impetuous youth on Anakin's part enlightens Vader's actions in the OT.

I am pretty sure that Vader was looking for a way to dethrone Palps since at least the beginning of ESB. What changed were his motives for doing so. And you betcher sweet life that motives can change on a dime.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I think the original point that made me go down that 'impulsive' route was the comment that ROTJ made Vader a weaker character.

What I was getting at was that looking at Vader tossing Emperor down the shaft, if you were to see that as a premeditated decision, that he had been looking for a way to get rid of the Emperor for a long time, it does weaken Vader as a character because he was never loyal to the Emperor. Without the context of the Prequels to see why Vader has no loyalty to the Emperor, you just see Vader as a mindless killing machine akin to the Terminator, which sounds cool, but it undermines who Vader is.

Vader told the Emperor that Luke will 'join us or die'. . . and then cut off Luke's hand because he wouldn't join Vader. It just seems like Vader is an angry, angry dude who gets all "Hulk SMASH" whenever he doesn't get his way.

 

[Darthrazz]

According to this article, Vader had some serious issues!! Enjoy!

https://www.whas11.com/news/Darth-Vader-was-mentally-ill-researchers-say-96071514.html

 

[LOTRFan]

I think his strongest point was the war of no consequence; that essentially is the major flaw with the PT in general. Outside of a totally synthetic universe where everything looks like a sterilized video game, this epic galactic civil war really never felt tragic, or real; I don't think Lucas ever showed how the rise of the empire was in any way an issue for the citizens of their resident planets. He had brought this point up eloquently in his Phantom Menace review as well; the trade federation and their embargo never made any sense nor do we as an audience ever really care one way or another.