Poll - Mark VII (Stealth Mode Version)

[hokietwo]

Hmmm.. I would be cautious on assuming this will be a very limited release, MT24 posted this comment on the main Stealth figure thread, which was informative and I think is worth repeating here -

I agree. Not in any way trying to say there is less than xxxx made. But on the Midas remember we waited MONTHS to get it in the States. It was in and out of those Toy fairs we saw the pictures of the bodies waiting around for the second order tickets. It was a funny joke of the Summer Exclusive available in the fall on SSC. If anyone would like to do some detective work I recall that some gent went through and tried to total up the Midas release with all of the conventions and the extras with a spot guess on SSCs orders.

The excitement around getting Midas was tempered and it did not sell out for several days once it did hit. Many were already choking from the pre-orders and realizing what it would really take to keep up with 43 armors. Midas in many ways was the shot over the bow of many collectors diving off the iron man boat.

The Midas and Python armors are definitely catering to the HPP collectors and the completest. I still would think the appeal of a non-movie tied stealth would have a larger appeal than those and be very well received from a general fan of Iron Man and the comics.

 

[DasMuse]

People really need to stop comparing this to convention exclusives... It's a movie promo, and they aren't treated the same way.

 

[hokietwo]

People really need to stop comparing this to convention exclusives... It's a movie promo, and they aren't treated the same way.

Yeah its really Hot toys screwing up their own release methods as well. It clearly reads the Movie Promo on the figure but since they announced it with the conventions its got everybody screwed up. Since it was that way in the past, people will have the reference point to look at how they did it then for recent memory. Midas was the one armor that got the most pub during those tours in 2013. They went all out with the Gold displays and raz mataz. It was quite the spectacle.

 

[Invictus Sol]

I don't know. I think it could go either way and HT limits the sales to however many were sold in the four or fives hours this was up, or maybe waitlists hit a certain threashold and they do a second run later. Given the super healthy profit margin and secondary value, it seems silly of them business-wise to leave that potential revenue on the table (though it has a certain integrity to it). Midas was waitlist for something like 6+ months, which makes no sense (flexpay wasn't offered and card cancellations would've been known immediately) unless at least a portion were converting in the back end.

 

[DasMuse]

Keep in mind that sideshow sometimes forgets to remove the waitlist button... Up until 2 months ago coulson still had a wait-list option.

 

[Taibhse]

I don't know how limited this will be, but the fact that it went on waitlist at Sideshow in less than a day would seem to indicate that it is indeed limited. The post you quoted says that an initial batch they had of the Midas sold out within two hours of the convention opening and that they then distributed pre-order forms for those that didn't get one. The everyone who wanted one got one quote seems speculative. How does he know how long the pre-order forms were distributed for and how many got distributed. Were the forms only available for the first day or longer? Either way, it was clear that not everyone who wanted to get the figure was able to get one - obviously not everyone was able to attend a convention to order one if they were't able to get it through sideshow.

I take your point.. however what I understood from MT24's post was that the 'fixed' number of Midas figures taken to the shows, was not the same 'fixed' number actually made.
There was also lots of (admittedly) speculation that the reason for the long delay before Midas shipped from Sideshow, was to facilitate further production..since there are no official figures for the production numbers, that is entirely possible.

All of which means the Stealth Pre-order list might reflect the expected demand ..but the Wish List offers Hot Toys quite a lot of scope for some extra production.. particularly since Sideshow has put an NRD on the figure.. but admittedly I am speculating, we will not know for sure until the Wait List starts converting.

I took 24hrs to make up my mind, so I certainly hope the Wait List converts!

 

[hokietwo]

I think you saw the waitlist string out because of the amount of indecisiveness from collectors and flippers on it. Again it was slow coming out of the gate and people jumped on it, just like every other iron man exclusive. Midas as it stands today has much more desire than it did when I came out.

People want to dissect Midas. How about Hot Rod, it sold out in 3 days. SOLD OUT. No waitlist button back up and running with Sideshow for weeks or months. They ran up a waitlist during the 3 days and flipped it over to sold out. Sideshow is in contact with HT and they know what they are getting. They also know relatively speaking what the cancels and waitlists accumulate to be for figure lines. 99% of the stuff that goes on with the waitlist is just good theatre.

 

[pjam]

Yeah its really Hot toys screwing up their own release methods as well. It clearly reads the Movie Promo on the figure but since they announced it with the conventions its got everybody screwed up. Since it was that way in the past, people will have the reference point to look at how they did it then for recent memory. Midas was the one armor that got the most pub during those tours in 2013. They went all out with the Gold displays and raz mataz. It was quite the spectacle.

You can pick up a Midas (or Hot Rod) for $400ish on ebay. I think this Stealth piece is cooler but I bet HT makes as many of these as they can get away with. Not sure how this will compare in aftermarket value though -- I guess it all depends on supply and demand.

 

[hokietwo]

There is a lot of strategy that goes into selling a product. At the end of the day there are many ways to make profit through higher sales or lower costs. What the casual business observer takes HT for is "printing money with iron mans", which is partially correct. It really is honing and protecting the brand.

The strategy is around where HT can get and maximize the profits to support other lines and properties they would like to explore. Iron Man is a means to that as it gives them the money to go buy licensing into Star Wars, BTTF and what ever else that's not iron man. It is a fickle thing balancing a brand. If they make too much as people want to believe HT does then you get leftovers, price erodes and the brand suffers as people do not value product.

Hard to explain this in 4 sentences but it comes down to the brand and how HT manages that. Do that well and they most certainly maximize the profits.

At the end of the day HT wants to drive profits and get the consumer to identify with the brand. I am buying Hot Toys and that means I am getting a premium dollar high quality product with exceptional details. They obviously are balancing that quite well since the Stealth Iron man sold out in less than a day.

The other point of why they don't make 20,000 of these, is because they do not have to for the reasons above. Defining and owning a premium brand with repeat business.

 

[Invictus Sol]

...The other point of why they don't make 20,000 of these, is because they do not have to for the reasons above. Defining and owning a premium brand.

But you also said they want to maximise profits so that they can explore less popular franchises. Seems pretty clear they could double the initial run, at least, and still sell out in no time. I guess it has a certain prestige to limit it far below what they could actually sell but still doesn't make a lot of business sense.

 

[hokietwo]

But you also said they want to maximise profits so that they can explore less popular franchises. Seems pretty clear they could double the initial run, at least, and still sell out in no time. I guess it has a certain prestige to limit it far below what they could actually sell but still doesn't make a lot of business sense.

It makes the most business sense though. Why do you think crack dealers give the first product for free? Its not about the one sale man. They want you for 5,6 7 figures a year. They don't need to shoot the wad on one run. they have 43 suits to get people hooked on. They can still make profits from efficient technology, increase their prices to the vendors to name a few avenues. It does not have to always be about volume. Saying to increase volume is a very simplistic causality of the bigger sustainment reasons of a successful business.

 

[Invictus Sol]

A bigger run would still be a bigger profit and have zero negative effect on the brand. At the end of the day, it's still potential money that will go to secondary sellers instead of them directly. Personally I don't mind as I think the runs on most figures are too large but they don't seem to be able to find a happy medium between arbitrarily limited and massively overstocked.

 

[Taibhse]

I think the new, broader reach of the Sideshow NRD (and at other retailers) is aimed at precisely that problem.

 

[hokietwo]

I think the new, broader reach of the Sideshow NRD (and at other retailers) is aimed at precisely that problem.

Yes sir. That and the decrease in their sales of the figures due to lack of quality beaten ad naus in the various areas. Drake,Plisken, Hoth Figs, (insert next release here) Although I have high hopes for Deadpool since it is not a human face sculpt.

A bigger run would still be a bigger profit and have zero negative effect on the brand. At the end of the day, it's still potential money that will go to secondary sellers instead of them directly. Personally I don't mind as I think the runs on most figures are too large but they don't seem to be able to find a happy medium between arbitrarily limited and massively overstocked.

You are sacrificing long term stability with short term profits and every single business battles this issue. You are assuming that the demand curve is 100% which it never is. Look at Sideshow, their 1/6 offerings are getting more and more atrocious. They are not increasing their pricing to keep up with hot toys, they are increasing their pricing because of low volume. They are putting out subpar product and their sales of 1/6 brand items are suffering. Look how much GI Joe, Star Wars and other lots of lines they have are coupon eligible. Quality will catch up with you and will ultimately hurt your brand. In manufacturing a good for the most part, financial success will come best when the brand is well received and respected. At that point you can increase volume as you state and would have less impact from the demand curve due to economies of scale in production efficiency.

Sorry I love talking about this. Its actually my job.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Yeah, but they have much larger runs of less popular releases. Or releases that make no sense and must surely break even or lose money (Tonto, say). That hasn't hurt their brand but you're arguing that doubling this already coveted run would? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[hokietwo]

Yeah, but they have much larger runs of less popular releases. Or releases that make no sense and must surely break even or lose money (Tonto, say). That hasn't hurt their brand but you're arguing that doubling this already coveted run would? Doesn't make sense to me.

We are dancing around different instances though. Your example is probably the worst performing 1/6 figure they have made and the least positively received. Though Electro may end up taking that crown. Tonto was a one and done, they previewed the lone ranger saw the reaction and *****canned it. They saw there was no value in it. The Lone ranger brand appeals to AARP card carrying people and that is not Hot Toys target market. There are some things you don't screw with. Iron man is your money maker and you do not water it down by over producing and especially the exclusives.

 

[Invictus Sol]

This sold out in I think 5 hrs. There's a long, long way to go before most collectors would consider it "over produced". And speaking more generally of the Iron Man line, are you kidding me? No matter how many they make, they can't seem to saturate demand. I'd bet every cent I own they could quaduple the run and sell out without any kind of incentive or discount.

In regards to Tonto, sure, he's the easiest target, but look at how much HT stuff was heavily discounted at Spook, this year. That's what I'd refer to as over produced and diminishing to the brand. You'd think they'd want to sell more of these at $340.00 to make up for underperforming elsewhere.

 

[hokietwo]

This sold out in I think 5 hrs. There's a long, long way to go before most collectors would consider it "over produced". And speaking more generally of the Iron Man line, are you kidding me? No matter how many they make, they can't seem to saturate demand. I'd bet every cent I own they could quaduple the run and sell out without and kind of incentive or discount.

Just check Sideshow for instock right now. Don't want to take your money but.....

1 Starboost
2. Igor
3. Peacemaker
4. Red Snapper
5. Heartbreaker


That was from overestimating demand. You'll start seeing Iron man selling out and not be in stock for the future releases mark my words. Vendors will order less HT will produce less and charge more. That kids is a market correction. Protect the brand.

 

[Invictus Sol]

i guess time'll tell, hokie.

 

[hokietwo]

It's all good buddy. Thanks for the discussion.