PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

[Wake]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

No, we just don't share the same view of iminime. Although I will admit Rainman's sculpts have been some of the weakest, I think it has everything to do with his style and ability and nothing to do with iminime's work ethic. That being said, I do think that iminime should stick to using their in-house sculptors, because they obviously have some tremendous talent at their fingertips who have continually proven they can sculpt incredible likenesses.

Agreed. BUt look at the tweaked PS'ed image above... Rainmans sculpt is not far off! He just needs to take constructive criticisms and not let ego get in the way.

 

[axecutioner18]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Agreed. BUt look at the tweaked PS'ed image above... Rainmans sculpt is not far off! He just needs to take constructive criticisms and not let ego get in the way.

Presumptious to say the least that its his 'ego' that may gets in the way after so much service and fan appeasement he has done over the years and continues to do so. And might I add quite disrespectful too.

Yes the PS is nice and brings out the likeness.. but again I would like to remind some of you that taking an already angular pic of the sculpt and making PS edits on it is itself based on distance between mouth and nose etc etc to sugest changes is pretty useless because an angular picture photoshopped doesnt take in account what the actual dimensional quality will be. Generating an optical illusion over another of sorts.
So if you really want to be able to give constructive criticism using PS its best to edit a front on pic of the sculpt.

And bear in mind, 'tweaks' in sculpts are not minor 'tweaks' like PSing and image or changing a digital sculpt. Changing the difference like distance between the eyes is literally calling for a whole new resculpt. Because all these things are pretty much outlines in the rough part of sculpting. Bear in mind the shortcomings and the limitations of feasibility to so call change the sculpt before raising newer expectations.

Sometimes not pulling the punches gets better results

If you really think your disrespectful 'dump his ass' tirade has pushed for the tweaks, then you are quite mistaken. The only thing you achieved was Denny's post in which for the first time he has anything other than a pleased or pleasant tone.

 

[Wake]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Presumptious to say the least that its his 'ego' that may gets in the way after so much service and fan appeasement he has done over the years and continues to do so. And might I add quite disrespectful too.

Yes the PS is nice and brings out the likeness.. but again I would like to remind some of you that taking an already angular pic of the sculpt and making PS edits on it is itself based on distance between mouth and nose etc etc to sugest changes is pretty useless because an angular picture photoshopped doesnt take in account what the actual dimensional quality will be. Generating an optical illusion over another of sorts.
So if you really want to be able to give constructive criticism using PS its best to edit a front on pic of the sculpt.

And bear in mind, 'tweaks' in sculpts are not minor 'tweaks' like PSing and image or changing a digital sculpt. Changing the difference like distance between the eyes is literally calling for a whole new resculpt. Because all these things are pretty much outlines in the rough part of sculpting. Bear in mind the shortcomings and the limitations of feasibility to so call change the sculpt before raising newer expectations.


If you really think your disrespectful 'dump his ass' tirade has pushed for the tweaks, then you are quite mistaken. The only thing you achieved was Denny's post in which for the first time he has anything other than a pleased or pleasant tone.

I'm sorry that you think I was disrespectful. Perhaps I shouldn't have assumed that 'ego' was a problem.

The fact of the matter is that (as owner of 4 iminime figures -- and pre-orderer of this figure) i have the right as a consumer to demand the that the product be improved. Taking a defensive stand point is the last thing that will endear you or denny or iminime or rainman for that matter to a customer base.

The iminime figures are NOT cheap. In fact they are consistenly more expensive than Hot toys and the like. Because of that we as consumers hold Iminime to higher standards. The base bodies have been lacking for some time--as i understand it this is being addressed. Great. Now some of the sculpts are off. Especially this one. And although you claim a photoshop tweak offers no real help I DISAGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY... IT SHOWS THAT THE SCULPT IS NOT %100. IF FOR THAT REASON ALONE THERE'S MERIT iN CREATING THE PHOTOSHOPPED IMAGE.

At the end of the day it's iminime and Denny paying for Rainman's services... if you let your employees get away with substandard work you are only hurting yourself.

THANKS.

 

[batsheva]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

^ I do agree with Wake in terms of photoshopped image. Even tough it was tweaked from certain angle, it's showing that there are few issues on the sculpt itself, because a good sculpt will show perfect likeness from any angle. A sculpt is a 3D object, so if you tweak it in certain angle it would certainly change the shape and it can help the likeness.

Although it would be very helpful if Denny would provide a clear frontal shot, perhaps I or Wake can tweak it in photoshop to help getting the likeness closer.

I do agree with axecutioner, that a minor tweak in photoshop can be a total resculpt and that requires major effort, but what I mean by "it's already there, and it's only slightly off" is that Rainman has succeeded on capturing the shape of Lecter. The nose shape, the eyes, the lips are right. So he almost nailed it, just a matter of proportion/distance. That would help him -if he actually has to resculpt it- (we don't know, maybe he has certain technique on fixing his sculpt without resculpting it).

and I do think it's like what Wake said, we paid quite a lot of money for this, even more than the price of Hot Toys' headsculpt.. so I think it's proper for us to ask for the best result.

I'm sure Denny will listen and accept critics and comments regarding his product, as all good bussinessman does.

 

[Dark Passenger]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Those tweaked pics are great. It looks much better that way!

 

[PopCultKid]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Batsheva's tweak was good...but it needed a bit more...

The head is slightly rounder. Slightly more forehead and brow leveled flatter. Nose slighly shorter. Mouth is smaller, lips thinner. Jaw thinner.

Perfect, perfect tweaks guys. Both are huge improvements, especially yours Wake. That is all Hopkins right there. I'll drop if Denny could make this happen.

And Wake I think that your misunderstanding Axe. All he's saying about 'shopping 2D images is that it's much easier to do than actually applying those changes to a 3D sculpt. On PS you can move mouths, eyes, noses around in a heartbeat but to make certain changes like that to a sculpt may mean starting from scratch.

Sometimes not pulling the punches gets better results

Brother please don't think that it was your approach that got any gears turning. You were definitely not the first to point out the issue with the mouth and several others did so WAY more tactfully. And don't be surprised if people are emailing him directly with their suggestions. All you did was manage to piss Denny off and get him to react in (probably) an uncharacteristic way.

But I see that's how you flow in every thread that I see you post in so I guess that's just you being you. No biggie because that's what the boards are for. But how you became a MOD is beyond me . I guess diplomacy isn't a requirement on the resume.

But as hash as you are you do make some solid points here and there. The truest one that you just mentioned is Iminime's approach to launching their releases. They are trying to make deadlines and that's why things sometimes feel rushed. There have been several times that they posted WIP pics too early and probably should have perfected things more before they revealed to they public.

And your wisest point is about tweaks and redo's. It's very true that for Iminime to continue to grow, they will have to learn to start from scratch when necessary, if minor tweaks can't fix the problems. They may have to scrap an entire sculpt even 2-3 times if that what it takes, especially if it was for a licenced character

 

[PopCultKid]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

EDIT: batsheva's post wasn't there when I started mine.

And you are right, the facial features that has sculpt are very good but they are too spread out. The likeness pours out of this sculpt when everything is moved closer together like you and Wake's suggestions.

 

[axecutioner18]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Wake, you are not reading what Im saying, rather jumping to wrong conclusions. In a nutshell what I said was the PS is definately improving the likeness, but in terms of real help to the sculptor it does next to nothing because of

1. Angular perspective doesnt really accurately portray the distance between a nose and mouth as technically actual distance is subsituted by angular one, which has been further edited

2. Any constructive suggestions in PS is better help if done on a front and side combined perspective as the total dimensional aspects get addressed.

3. Do not get your hopes exeptionally up that a PS can make them see the light and make huge changes in the sculpt simply because some of the changes underlined will need a complete resculpt of the head like the distance between eyes and literally compressing the face (which is see in the PS - however if you see the front on of the sculpt and compress the face the likeness will become worse - so you see the pitfalls of actually making a PS that can constructively help). These are not 3D Computer Generated sculpts that you can edit them like you would edit/PS an image.

Those are the main 3 points I stated in the post. If you think they defend the sculpt likeness or anything then its just a lack of comprehension or my inability to explain lucidly.

 

[Wake]

Wake, you are not reading what Im saying, rather jumping to wrong conclusions. In a nutshell what I said was the PS is definately improving the likeness, but in terms of real help to the sculptor it does next to nothing because of

1. Angular perspective doesnt really accurately portray the distance between a nose and mouth as technically actual distance is subsituted by angular one, which has been further edited

2. Any constructive suggestions in PS is better help if done on a front and side combined perspective as the total dimensional aspects get addressed.

3. Do not get your hopes exeptionally up that a PS can make them see the light and make huge changes in the sculpt simply because some of the changes underlined will need a complete resculpt of the head like the distance between eyes and literally compressing the face (which is see in the PS - however if you see the front on of the sculpt and compress the face the likeness will become worse - so you see the pitfalls of actually making a PS that can constructively help). These are not 3D Computer Generated sculpts that you can edit them like you would edit/PS an image.

Those are the main 3 points I stated in the post. If you think they defend the sculpt likeness or anything then its just a lack of comprehension or my inability to explain lucidly.

I see your point. I understand. Fair enough. But guess what... As a customer willing to pay for a producti should be able to demand improvement. Of that means starting a sculpt over then So be it!

I'm willing to wait as Long as Denny, rainman and iminime need for a better lecter

 

[yruh8n]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

My understanding is that a lot of sculptors work in wax because of the flexibility of being able to go back in to the sculpt and rework it. Axecutioner is right in that a photoshop from one angle doesn't really help much. Compared to a photograph from the same angle even those photoshops are lacking in Hopkins proportions. A sculpt needs to look good from all angles. It should not be necessary to resculpt this head, especially since a mask has already been made to fit it. There is a lot of room for improvment. In todays market with so many portrait sculptors looking for work you think all of them would be pushing to make sure each sculpt they did was the best it could be.

 

[axecutioner18]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Rainman's sculpt is in sculpey hard/firm I believe just like Iminime's other sculptor. Trevor and Erick Sosa I believe use hard wax to sculpt.

 

[Buttmunch]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Brother please don't think that it was your approach that got any gears turning. You were definitely not the first to point out the issue with the mouth and several others did so WAY more tactfully. And don't be surprised if people are emailing him directly with their suggestions. All you did was manage to piss Denny off and get him to react in (probably) an uncharacteristic way.

But I see that's how you flow in every thread that I see you post in so I guess that's just you being you. No biggie because that's what the boards are for. But how you became a MOD is beyond me . I guess diplomacy isn't a requirement on the resume.

But as hash as you are you do make some solid points here and there. The truest one that you just mentioned is Iminime's approach to launching their releases. They are trying to make deadlines and that's why things sometimes feel rushed. There have been several times that they posted WIP pics too early and probably should have perfected things more before the revealed to they public.

And your wisest point is about tweaks and redo's. It's very true that for Iminime to continue to grow, they will have to learn to start from scratch when necessary, if minor tweaks can't fix the problems. They may have to scrap an entire sculpt even 2-3 times if that what it takes, especially if it was for a licenced character

Denny hadn't responded in this thread for a while now before my post. My post at least made him recognize there is an issue. And now if they DON'T fix it, I'll have solid proof that they don't care enough about their products to fix major issues. He took the bait now the ball is in his court to prove what he's only been saying so far.

I hold customizers to a higher standard than mass production companies. They charge more, we should expect a higher level of quality. Other sculptors like Rocco offer 2 free revisions of their sculpts before finalizing and/or charging more for additional revisions. I don't see ANY reason why iminime or Rainman or anyone else should feel they can get away with a one and done approach to their sculpts. Rarely is a sculpt ever perfect the first time around.

Again guys, don't get me wrong. I have a great deal of respect for iminime, Rainman, and all of the other customizers of the board. I just feel that they've been slipping in their sculpt quality and they haven't responded to the polite suggestions. Sometimes you need to raise your voice a bit to be heard. I'm sorry if I have offended them, it was not my intent. I just want to help them by making sure they improve the sculpt. They didn't listen on Ra's Al Guhl and I ended up passing on that figure, which is too bad because that is a major whole in the HT line. I fully plan on picking up their Walking Dead figures as those are looking great so far.

I just don't want them to forget that QUALITY over QUANTITY is how you win and keep customers.

 

[shadowfla]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Denny hadn't responded in this thread for a while now before my post. My post at least made him recognize there is an issue. And now if they DON'T fix it, I'll have solid proof that they don't care enough about their products to fix major issues. He took the bait now the ball is in his court to prove what he's only been saying so far.

I hold customizers to a higher standard than mass production companies. They charge more, we should expect a higher level of quality. Other sculptors like Rocco offer 2 free revisions of their sculpts before finalizing and/or charging more for additional revisions. I don't see ANY reason why iminime or Rainman or anyone else should feel they can get away with a one and done approach to their sculpts. Rarely is a sculpt ever perfect the first time around.

Again guys, don't get me wrong. I have a great deal of respect for iminime, Rainman, and all of the other customizers of the board. I just feel that they've been slipping in their sculpt quality and they haven't responded to the polite suggestions. Sometimes you need to raise your voice a bit to be heard. I'm sorry if I have offended them, it was not my intent. I just want to help them by making sure they improve the sculpt. They didn't listen on Ra's Al Guhl and I ended up passing on that figure, which is too bad because that is a major whole in the HT line. I fully plan on picking up their Walking Dead figures as those are looking great so far.

I just don't want them to forget that QUALITY over QUANTITY is how you win and keep customers.

but you can choose (like me) don't like it.. don't buy it..pretty symple if the most of freaks here want to spend their money for mass production figures...let them alone...and let waste their money...I've take the decision, do you want to make easy money?...goood for you ok ...but not with my help..

 

[The Danger]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

So there will be a preorder option for the white shirt/white pants/bloody face set too, right?

 

[denny kim]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Dear fans and collectors,

I am sure some people know my personality well, I am willing to take all the criticisms for good, what I feel sad is about making words which is not the truth.
You may think your word made me to pop out. but it's not.
I have been reading and discussing with team how we can treak for better satisfaction.
photos can't show everything. and before getting feedback. we also checked things to be improved. I am just double cheking it.

however, using sculphey is different from wax. once you harden it. it has very limitation in terms of modification.
making treak with ps is easy thing for some angles, for sculpt, well you,d better try how it is difficult and risky.
honestly. rainman took action during the weekend before i che
cked many feedback. this sculpt is 2nd sculpt which means we made first one and we made better one.
sometime. things that we can find somthing to be reworked is after taking photos.
what I feel sad was to judge our team wrong. You can freely say something about our scuplt is fine and I consider all the feedback although there is limitations. but please do not say about my team wrongly. If we just go for money, we wouldnt do custom work with more than half priced handwork compared to other famous artist.

I wanna do some balanced work for customers and artists. lower something. upper something is not easy at all after harden the sculpt.
if we take all opinions and get them done in sculpt, how artists can think they are artist?
they can be depressed. so the balance is important that I always try.
our work recently started, is normally doing a lot of modification too after checking it with painting.
you never know how the deformation occur to where.
if you think a sculpt is perfect in original? this never turns out 100% due to deformation.
we are expert and we decide if spmething can be improved in certain circumstance after the sculpt is harden.

I think some parts are not about sculpt. it's about painting which can be done. and I think when this is done. you see it different.

anyway, I love all the feedbacks except words saying wrongly about our team.

the printed number on blue jumpsuit will be lowered. I knew about it before taking photos.
we've made two sets of each clothing to see how this would trun out after photoshooting.
we seriously spend a lot of days for each project and we will be showing better works in the future.

Hyun ji is doing bateman and the space trucker for weeks now.
unfortunately, the wig trial has been failed. made few samples at no.1 doll supplier in china, I expected much but it wasn't great.
the face has bern younger and the hair is being longer.

for bateman, it's one of the toughest sculpts. because there are wonderful sculpts out there. so it takes double to make the sculpt.
but I see it and check often and it goes well.
it will be the best sculpt of ms hyunji kim.
I encourge our team everyday. We drink together whenever we think we need something new ideas and refresh.
anyway, the lecter sculpt is being teaked. but I am saying we can't take all suggestions due to the reasons above.

I will show you new photos when it's done.

love,

Denny
thank you all

 

[Wake]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Dear fans and collectors,

I am sure some people know my personality well, I am willing to take all the criticisms for good, what I feel sad is about making words which is not the truth.
You may think your word made me to pop out. but it's not.
I have been reading and discussing with team how we can treak for better satisfaction.
photos can't show everything. and before getting feedback. we also checked things to be improved. I am just double cheking it.

however, using sculphey is different from wax. once you harden it. it has very limitation in terms of modification.
making treak with ps is easy thing for some angles, for sculpt, well you,d better try how it is difficult and risky.
honestly. rainman took action during the weekend before i che
cked many feedback. this sculpt is 2nd sculpt which means we made first one and we made better one.
sometime. things that we can find somthing to be reworked is after taking photos.
what I feel sad was to judge our team wrong. You can freely say something about our scuplt is fine and I consider all the feedback although there is limitations. but please do not say about my team wrongly. If we just go for money, we wouldnt do custom work with more than half priced handwork compared to other famous artist.

I wanna do some balanced work for customers and artists. lower something. upper something is not easy at all after harden the sculpt.
if we take all opinions and get them done in sculpt, how artists can think they are artist?
they can be depressed. so the balance is important that I always try.
our work recently started, is normally doing a lot of modification too after checking it with painting.
you never know how the deformation occur to where.
if you think a sculpt is perfect in original? this never turns out 100% due to deformation.
we are expert and we decide if spmething can be improved in certain circumstance after the sculpt is harden.

I think some parts are not about sculpt. it's about painting which can be done. and I think when this is done. you see it different.

anyway, I love all the feedbacks except words saying wrongly about our team.

the printed number on blue jumpsuit will be lowered. I knew about it before taking photos.
we've made two sets of each clothing to see how this would trun out after photoshooting.
we seriously spend a lot of days for each project and we will be showing better works in the future.

Hyun ji is doing bateman and the space trucker for weeks now.
unfortunately, the wig trial has been failed. made few samples at no.1 doll supplier in china, I expected much but it wasn't great.
the face has bern younger and the hair is being longer.

for bateman, it's one of the toughest sculpts. because there are wonderful sculpts out there. so it takes double to make the sculpt.
but I see it and check often and it goes well.
it will be the best sculpt of ms hyunji kim.
I encourge our team everyday. We drink together whenever we think we need something new ideas and refresh.
anyway, the lecter sculpt is being teaked. but I am saying we can't take all suggestions due to the reasons above.

I will show you new photos when it's done.

love,

Denny
thank you all

Denny,

Thanks so much for your time. And I personally, speaking only for myself, want to apoliogize if I made any criticisms that were NOT constructive. It's really great that you took the moment to write and address the concerns in this thread. I have great respect for your company and hope that Iminime can grow to become a great mainstay in the world of 1/6 figures.

What I'm gathering is that you feel that after two attempts at trying to get the Lecter sculpt right that you think its good enough, or at least good enough to fix with paint application. Is this right? I really hope this is not the case. You are right to mention that sculpture is a 3D form and that not everything will always look perfect from every angle... what I can say is that this particular sculpt does not look like Anthony Hopkins (not even 85%) from ANY angle. If it had one or two angles where it looked perfect then I could understand.

I hope that you will reconsider and give this sculp one more attempt.

The nose is too long. The mouth to wide. The lips slightly too thick. The jaw is too thick as well. It's a shame because the sculpt is close. I understand that you cannot go back and alter or adjust a sculpt that has been hardened... i would hope then maybe you could modify the existing sculpt in such a way to give it another attempt.

Anyway, I've already pre-ordered my figure... so ultimately you have my money. But I will be displaying it with the mask on instead of without (my preference) as I dont feel its good enough.

 

[denny kim]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Denny,

Thanks so much for your time. And I personally, speaking only for myself, want to apoliogize if I made any criticisms that were NOT constructive. It's really great that you took the moment to write and address the concerns in this thread. I have great respect for your company and hope that Iminime can grow to become a great mainstay in the world of 1/6 figures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------//

thank you for your kind words and the honest opinion. I respect your opinion. There are some points that I feel the same way but some are not.
the sculpt in person is better than the photos.
anyway, let me clear ^^

some points of the sculpt is alredy being treaked. but I have not yet checked due to weekend. but I will check.

thanks.

Now I have to go my office ^^ it's 7:35am

denny

 

[Buttmunch]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Thanks for that reply Denny. I am glad to hear you guys are trying hard to get these figures right

If I may make a suggestion though, switch to a sculpting material that doesn't harden. It would make modifying the sculpts much easier I would think. Because personally, I don't find "the sculpt has now hardened, its final" a very good excuse not to keep tweaking a sculpt. Often times certain parts of a sculpt are great as is, and other parts still need work. Having the ability to keep certain areas as-is and being able to fix other areas would greatly improve your sculpt quality. Please considering sculpting in different materials that would allow you to do this.

Keep up the great work!

 

[PopCultKid]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

DENNY:

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and explain to us Denny. Believe me that most of us know that you read all of the Iminime all the time, and you always consider what the fans are talking about. I know you have a hard job so thanks for your patience.

Well if there is a way to make the changes that Wake shows in his photoshop pic, that would greatly improve the sculpt. To me the features look pretty good but if they can be all moved closer together that brings out the likeness much more.

I would like to respectfully suggest something. Sometimes if a sculpt is too off it may be better to just start brand new again. Sometimes all the small tweaks isn't enough to fix the problems. Smith and The Skipper are good examples of this and they suffered because they were tweaked instead of redone.

Because it is true what was being said before. If you were doing a licensed character and the company that owns the rights wasn't happy with the first sculpt, and then wasn't happy with the tweaks made to that sculpt, I think that they'd expect you to start a new one untill you got it to their liking.

Thanks again for always taking the time to read what we say and for your understanding and patience

 

[yruh8n]

Re: FULL REVEAL! PREORDER NOW! [iminime]/Rainman - Dr. Lecter

Rainman's sculpt is in sculpey hard/firm I believe just like Iminime's other sculptor. Trevor and Erick Sosa I believe use hard wax to sculpt.

Most traditional sculptors working professionally for companies like DC Direct, Bowen, Sideshow and the like have switched to wax. Some will rough out a sculpt in sculpy and then mold it to recast in wax to do the finished work. Pretty sure Rocco, Snyder-man and several other sculptors who have worked for the above mentioned companies work partially or completly in wax. It is pretty much industry standard for professional sculptors. The main reason being the ability to adjust/tweak the sculpt easily. You can make minor to major changes without completly starting over. I have heard of sculptors who will take a wax head and completly resculpt it into a different person. It is flexibility like this that companies need, especially if looking to take the next step into licensed properties. If you think this thread is full of "experts" you haven't seen anything yet. I have heard a few horror stories from sculptors who have tweaked sculpts multiple times and still had to make additional changes. I have heard of a few sculptors who still work in sculpy like Tony Cipriano and William Paquet. These guys are part of the few who are pretty much considered the pinnacle of prototype sculpting. They would probably tell you they take a calculted risk in trying to do a finished prototype in sculpy, because of the difficulty of making changes.