PT Changing How You View The OT

[D. Martin]

The PT only exists to me when i want it to.



(looking forward to the live action series,and hoping it's not a disaster)

I understand that it's going to be called Cooking With Jar Jar. It'll rock. At least it won't be as obnoxious as the Rachel Ray show...

 

[Khev]

Why dump Luke off with his Muggle relatives? If Luke is the Great White Hope for the Galaxy, and Jedi start their training at 6 months, why sin't Obi-Wan raising Luke as a Jedi in the wilderness? Considering the fact that Anakin's big downfall stems from his latent talents with the Force can't be controlled by his very late-in-life training, why let Luke wait until he's TWICE AS OLD as Anakin was before starting his training?

I think Yoda came to the realization that love and family are just as important as knowledge of the Force. THEY created an arena for Anakin's turmoil by taking him from his mother before he was emotionally ready and the Jedi Code created an Order of arrogant Force wielders like Mace Windu, too legalistic and prideful to let the great prophecy run its course when the Sith Lord is dead to rights before him and the Chosen One is standing right next to him.

I never read any EU that details events past ROTJ, but I've never pictured the new Jedi Order headed by Luke Skywalker to be one comprised of baby stealing monks. I imagine it to be more emotionally balanced and voluntary, and under the realization that there IS a "why" and that it's important to *know* the "why" in order to counter the lies of those who do evil.

As for why Yoda argued against training Luke, well, the way I see it the Jedi Master knew better but he was just old and crotchety and in a foul mood because Luke dissed his crib and his cooking.

Anyway these are just the meanderings of another old apologist.

 

[lerath666]

It's kinda funny, really. As much disdain as there is for the EU, Yet it more or less supports the vast majority of the ideas you all are comming up with, It all depends on alot of factors I soppose. Just taking a guess here that D. martin and Pix are over 30, adn saw the OT in theatres when it first came out.
I say that becuase of this, No matter what, that trilogy will allways be perfect to you, special to you on some level. anything else will seem... contrived to you. You accept the PT, but only so much, and even then, you pick it apartto some degree. The vast majority of EU fans, seem to be 80's children. We missed the theatrical release ( I was born in '82) And we asked, so what's next? We wanted more, and we grew up reading the novels, and the comics. Some were very good, some very bad, but it was as much "ours" as the OT is yours. The same can be said for the youngest generation of fans, becuase the PT is theirs, and it will allways be special to them. Now, there are exceptions to this, but for the most part, this seems to be how it goes.
For me, it's OT+PT+EU = SW, allwas has been. allways will, and from the older generation, I'll wager Adam Reads some of the comics. Just get this feeling he's a comic book guy for some reason

Disclaimer: Not trying to single any one out, nor start a fight, just using Pix and D as examples from that generation of fans

 

[lerath666]

I understand that it's going to be called Cooking With Jar Jar. It'll rock. At least it won't be as obnoxious as the Rachel Ray show...

You misunderstand, Jar jar is not the host, he's the intended Entree, the hosts are actualy a tag team of Alton Brown, and a Rancor.

 

[Prime Clone]

For me, it's OT+PT+EU = SW, allwas has been.

I'm with you bro, and I'm one of those crotchety thirtysomethings to which you refer. I have fond memories of reading the Marvel comics as a kid. They were a lifeline to the Star Wars universe between films (three years is a long time when you're a kid!) And while the PT has its flaws, I like it a lot more than most of the old school.

Turning the thread topic around a little, the OT influenced how much I enjoyed AOTC. While a lot of people think it's not much better than TPM, I liked it a lot, mainly because of all the exposition: the beginnings of Anakin's descent into the dark side, the Lars connection, the origins of Boba and the stormtroopers, Vader's robotic arm ...

Of course, if I hadn't been waiting most of my life to see these things, it might not have impressed me so much as a movie.

 

[IrishJedi]

It had always bothered me tremendously that they not only put Luke with relatives that Vader knew, but also keeping the name Skywalker. Sure Vader and Sidious didn't know about the children being born (hence the pregnant corpse of Padme?), but keeping the name seems an unneccesary risk.

But in this radical, "let's make it work" justification mode that Mr. Hughes has put forward - perhaps Obi-wan wanted Luke to have the legacy of his name so he'd feel connected to Anakin and have the need to become a Jedi. Perhaps Obi-wan even thought that there might be some good let in Vader and if he ever confronted Luke he'd know immediately from just his name that he was his son.

While it's technically EU (though one of the rare GOOD EU entries) the "Dark Lord" novel offers a much more simple answer:

Obi-Wan and Yoda assumed Anakin/Vader was dead at the end of ROTS, therefore taking Luke to Tatooine to live with the Lars was no big deal.

Luceno dealt with this in a very cool way in the book, especially Obi-Wan's reaction upon hearing that Vader is still alive (naturally while he was having a drink in a Tatooine cantina). It wasn't "Damn, I didn't finish the job. Oh well, I'll get him next time." It was "What have we done? He's still alive... and we brought Luke HERE!" He was distraught, devastated and defeated. Then, the spirit of Qui-Gon pops in and reassures Obi-Wan that it will be okay, as the memory of Tatooine is much to painful for Vader too revisit.

It's still Luceno cleaning up Lucas' mess, but I like that explanation a lot and it's one of the rare (of only) times where I'm willing to consider the EU as canon as the films. And wouldn't it have been cooler to experience moments like that in the films instead of scenes with contrived characters like General Grievous or Midwife Droids singing Oompa Loompa tunes?

 

[Prime Clone]

Good point. Obi-Wan couldn't bring himself to finish Anakin, but would have assumed he was done for anyway.

 

[pickard]

I'm with you bro, and I'm one of those crotchety thirtysomethings to which you refer. I have fond memories of reading the Marvel comics as a kid. They were a lifeline to the Star Wars universe between films (three years is a long time when you're a kid!) And while the PT has its flaws, I like it a lot more than most of the old school.

Same here. I still crack open those old Marvel Comics. The nostalgia is overwhelming. In the years between movies, those were the next best thing.

I must go back to issue #38 with the awesome Michael Golden art at least 3 times a year.

Also, I used to religiously cut out the comic strips and can still remember the thrill of listening to the radio dramas Sunday afternoons on NPR.

 

[IrishJedi]

Same here. I still crack open those old Marvel Comics. The nostalgia is overwhelming. In the years between movies, those were the next best thing.

I must go back to issue #38 with the awesome Michael Golden art at least 3 times a year.

Also, I used to religiously cut out the comic strips and can still remember the thrill of listening to the radio dramas Sunday afternoons on NPR.

Ah, the Golden Age of SW fandom.

 

[Darthrazz]

I understand that it's going to be called Cooking With Jar Jar. It'll rock. At least it won't be as obnoxious as the Rachel Ray show...

Oh God! I never thought about Jar Jar being in the TV series!

 

[Karaduin]

My thoughts on a few of the topics brought up here:

1.) Midichlorians - i agree they should never have been introduced! Made it feel like Star Trek... tachyon fields, positronic beams etc etc leave to the Trekkies. Although some one made a good excuse in their post earlier which suggests the Jedi had dissected and broken down their own beliefs - this lends to the idea that the Jedi's belief had become lax and became more of an academic study rather than an every day disciplined way of living.

And i DONT like the "immaculate conception" idea of Anakin being born from no father - thats just too far out for me. Shmi had a drunken night out and just wouldnt admit it - maybe it was Wuher's dad?

2.) The Jedi never freeing the slaves on Tatooine - i remember thinking when watching the OT "how come the Empire let Jabba control this planet all to himself?." I read somewhere that the Empire would rather not take on this very powerful Hutt and his crime underworld connections. Even though the Imps could've trounced em, the Hutts could've been a big thorn in the Imps side and i think the Imps enjoyed letting the Hutts have their own share of power which propogated the seedier side of life.

For the same reasons, I reckon the Jedi would have come to the decision that invading Tatooine and freeing slaves would not have been a very good move - diplomatically speaking. In a way they would have preferred to let the Hutts have their own little slice of power although closely watched-dogged by them. If the Hutts had ever shown signs of doing something like seizing a whole planet (ie the CIS taking Naboo) i'm sure the Jedi would've then stepped in - probably after a very long Jedi council commitee meeting with tea n biscuits.

I never had a problem with the slaves not being freed. I do agree that the scene where Ani leaves his mom is too short

3.) I too was annoyed that Obi-Wan was a minor characer in TPM - he spends the middle part of the film on Amidala's ship "on the phone" to his master and Coruscant. Only really doing anything important when he pwns Maul. This Qui-Gon / Obi realationship does set the scene for the Obi / Anakin relationship - as we can see the Master must have long hair and beard whereas the apprentice must have spiky short hair and a padawan braid (only applies to human-beings of the Jedi order). Sorry being a bit silly there but i hope you get my point.

This is a great thread, I've read it all through and wanted to write more but i'm at work right now and geeking out on SW forums is making me fall behind!

 

[Karaduin]

Also, forgot to say I LOVED the fact that Anakins first step toward the Dark Side was carried out in the middle of no-where... where no-one could see his ruthless butchering of the Sand peeps in revenge for his mother... no-one could see this act although Yoda sensed his pain. I was quite shocked when he killed all the younglings in ROTS but if the sick whiney kid could slaughter Tusken youths then its not a great leap to go ahead with slaughtering human kids - and by that time he had succumbed to the Dark Side 2 or 3 times depending if you count EU plots.

What does need to be mentioned is Padme hardly being phased by Anakins confession of slaughetering the Sand Peeps! "Honey, I've just killed a whole tribe of primitives with my laser bat in a fit of anger".... "Aww tough day dear?!?" - but i guess they did kill his mom....

 

[Darthrazz]

Also, forgot to say I LOVED the fact that Anakins first step toward the Dark Side was carried out in the middle of no-where... where no-one could see his ruthless butchering of the Sand peeps in revenge for his mother... no-one could see this act although Yoda sensed his pain. I was quite shocked when he killed all the younglings in ROTS but if the sick whiney kid could slaughter Tusken youths then its not a great leap to go ahead with slaughtering human kids - and by that time he had succumbed to the Dark Side 2 or 3 times depending if you count EU plots.

What does need to be mentioned is Padme hardly being phased by Anakins confession of slaughetering the Sand Peeps! "Honey, I've just killed a whole tribe of primitives with my laser bat in a fit of anger".... "Aww tough day dear?!?" - but i guess they did kill his mom....

What exactly were the Tuskens doing to his Mom anyway???

 

[Karaduin]

What exactly were the Tuskens doing to his Mom anyway???

THATS a thought that's crossed my mind may times... just never wanted to go down that road in my mind. At best it looks likes the shes been tied up and had food thrown at her.... at worst it looks like shes had a Tusken train go thru her!

 

[Darthrazz]

THATS a thought that's crossed my mind may times... just never wanted to go down that road in my mind. At best it looks likes the shes been tied up and had food thrown at her.... at worst it looks like shes had a Tusken train go thru her!

I fear it was the worst case scenario.....

 

[Amanaman]

I always thought the PERFECT Qui-Gon moment for Ep 3 would have been when Yoda plummeted to the floor of the Senate, beaten to unconsciousness by the Emperor.

How cool would it have been to have Yoda laying there, and then you hear Qui-Gon's voice saying "Get up, master! Run!" And it wakes Yoda up!

Juts a wacky thought.

It's been done, by a fan. See the ROTS edit by "ADigitalman"

He used dialog from other Liam Neeson movies, mainly Batman Begins, to craft some relevant lines. It turned out very well. He included the deleted Grievous scene, and removed any redundancies from the bridge scene. He could have left out the Rebellion scenes, though, which were pretty boring and drag down the narrative.

Check out this board to keep up with other fan projects, which most are of professional quality. https://originaltrilogy.com/forum/categories.cfm?catid=9

 

[Darth Caedus]

It had always bothered me tremendously that they not only put Luke with relatives that Vader knew, but also keeping the name Skywalker. Sure Vader and Sidious didn't know about the children being born (hence the pregnant corpse of Padme?), but keeping the name seems an unneccesary risk.

But in this radical, "let's make it work" justification mode that Mr. Hughes has put forward - perhaps Obi-wan wanted Luke to have the legacy of his name so he'd feel connected to Anakin and have the need to become a Jedi. Perhaps Obi-wan even thought that there might be some good let in Vader and if he ever confronted Luke he'd know immediately from just his name that he was his son.

Perhaps on Tatooine, "Skywalker" is like "Smith"

 

[pixletwin]

What exactly were the Tuskens doing to his Mom anyway???

I concocted the idea that they were paid by Sidious/Dooku to torture her to lure Anakin away from his assignment.

 

[IrishJedi]

I concocted the idea that they were paid by Sidious/Dooku to torture her to lure Anakin away from his assignment.

Actually, that idea is inferred in the ROTS novelization.

 

[Darthrazz]

It was inferred that the midichlorians could create life. If Sidious somehow influenced Anakin's birth, is it possible that he knew a child was born , but not where? Why wouldn't he have just taken the boy off of Tatooine himself?