PT Changing How You View The OT

[lerath666]

Opp, I'm wrong. Copy-paste from wookiepedia.

Controversy

Ironically, even though Dooku taught his students humility, he had his mind set on becoming the greatest Jedi ever.
Jedi Master Dooku in 34 BBY, after his last assignment for the Republic—the Battle of Galidraan.
Jedi Master Dooku in 34 BBY, after his last assignment for the Republic—the Battle of Galidraan.

But not all of Dooku's theories were widely accepted. Controversially, Dooku held that one could draw from both sides of the Force equally—light and dark—to achieve perfect balance. He believed that as long as he was not tempted to one side or another he could stay the course and harness the kind of power needed to change the galaxy for the better. Unfortunately for Dooku, his own pride, expressed in his goal to be the greatest Jedi ever swayed him closer and closer towards the dark side when attempting to study both sides of the Force. The Jedi High Council strongly disagreed with these beliefs.
[edit] A skilled politician

Dooku was a political idealist, and was skilled at resolving disputes throughout the galaxy, such as the Sevarcos Dispute of 52 BBY. He had always held strong opinions on what he saw as the ongoing decline in the Galactic Republic, and so it was not unexpected when he chose to leave the Order of his own accord.
[edit] Leaving the Order

"You know, milady, Count Dooku was once a Jedi. He couldn't assassinate anyone; it's not in his character."
―Ki-Adi-Mundi and Mace Windu to Padmé Amidala[src]

Dooku departed around the time of the Battle of Naboo, under the belief that the Jedi Order had become a blind pawn to the corrupt Senate, and retook his family title as Count of Serenno.[7] The disastrous Battle of Galidraan and the disappearance of Komari Vosa had already soured him from continued service to the Republic[11] and the death of his first Padawan, Qui-Gon Jinn, proved to be the final straw.

Dooku had been a Jedi for many years, and his bronzium bust was displayed in the Jedi Archives, along with the rest of the Lost Twenty, the only Jedi Masters ever to voluntarily resign their commission from the Jedi Order.[8]

I do know that the Battle of Galidraan was what started planting the seeds of mistrust in him. So I was partialy corect atleast

And the comic was Jango Fett, open seasons
https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jango_Fett:_Open_Seasons

 

[Prime Clone]

Other ways the PT changes our view of the OT:

• Knowing there are other species out there like Gungans, Dugs, Neimoidians, Toydarians and Zabraks
• Knowing that "Eisley" isn't the only "Mos", and there are other planets like Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis, Utapau and Mustafar
• Recognizing Coruscant in the closing scenes of ROTJ

 

[IrishJedi]

Do you guys realize how many contrived rationalizations you're coming up with to explain the plot holes the PT created and Lucas' revisionist history?

Now, I dig the prequel on their own and in their own right they are fun SW flicks. But Lucas dropped several balls. Sorry, there is just no way around that. I'm neither a Hater or an Apologist... I'm somewhere in between.

And when it comes to trying to figure out these continuity errors and conundrums (i.e., "Why did Obi-Wan say X or Y in the OT when it was A and B in the PT?" and "How can Leia remember her mother, but not Luke?") I can no longer hem, haw, spin and rationalize as if I work for LucasBooks. Instead, I've moved on and use Occam's Razor to come to one sobering conclusion: Lucas simply did not think all of this through as much as some of us nerds have. And here we are...

 

[pixletwin]

I don't think its far fetched. I think they are all plausible (and logical too, actually). Besides, it really is a matter of opinion and when it comes to that, calling something far fetched is a rather relative term.

 

[IrishJedi]

I didn't say far-fetched, I said contrived. Meaning, most seem to jump past the most logical answers to these questions in order to reach the desired conclusions, in spite of what might be more obvious.

Again, Occam's Razor. I hearby invoke it in these discussions.

 

[ambasah]

the one that always got me was why yoda would have to tell ben "there was another skywalker"...

 

[IrishJedi]

the one that always got me was why yoda would have to tell ben "there was another skywalker"...

He didn't say "There is another Skywalker" to Ben when he claimed Luke was their "last hope". He simply said, "No... there is another", and that was left purposely open-ended. It wasn't until just before production of ROTJ that Lucas decided to make Luke and Leia twins, and that was mainly spun out of him being stuck on what would make Luke snap when fighting Vader.

 

[foolkiller]

I didn't read to see if anyone else said this but one of the thing I think is the coolest now is the "No droids allowed". I'm sure it was unintentional but the fact that a droid army terrorized the galaxy in clone wars, could have been where this distrust and prejudice came from. I think that is really cool and when the Bartender says it now I think about battle droids.

 

[gatchatom]

I didn't read to see if anyone else said this but one of the thing I think is the coolest now is the "No droids allowed". I'm sure it was unintentional but the fact that a droid army terrorized the galaxy in clone wars, could have been where this distrust and prejudice came from. I think that is really cool and when the Bartender says it now I think about battle droids.

That's a great observation!

 

[pixletwin]

Yeah that is a great observation. Hmmmmm....

 

[Darklord Dave]

They may be contrived, but as Adam says - it's a fun exercise. I've recommended it in another thread, but the Story of Star Wars books details the development of the script and it's amazing in retrospect how much stuff wasn't thought through at all and characters, locations and plot points exist for the flimsiest of reasons and only later were retconned into place.

 

[IrishJedi]

I didn't read to see if anyone else said this but one of the thing I think is the coolest now is the "No droids allowed". I'm sure it was unintentional but the fact that a droid army terrorized the galaxy in clone wars, could have been where this distrust and prejudice came from. I think that is really cool and when the Bartender says it now I think about battle droids.

Yeah, I've heard that theory before, too. It's very cool, but unfortunately I'm 99.9% sure it's just a neat coincidence. Lucas' plans for the droids in the original film were to mimic the peasants of Kurosawa films (particularly "The Hidden Fortress") who were also unwanted outcasts, even though they're central to the events of the story and it's in fact told from their POV. That's the reason behind the Cantina snub... to reinforce that they're the peons.

And here is some cool fan-fic from the Wikipedia that reflects your topic:

The Clone Wars saw the devastation of over a thousand worlds, including Atraken, Honoghr, and Humbarine. These horrors, perpetrated by droids and alien species, led to much of the prejudice that ruled the Galaxy a generation later.

Again, it's not canon... but I like it.

 

[Darth Madden]

Do you guys realize how many contrived rationalizations you're coming up with to explain the plot holes the PT created and Lucas' revisionist history?

Now, I dig the prequel on their own and in their own right they are fun SW flicks. But Lucas dropped several balls. Sorry, there is just no way around that. I'm neither a Hater or an Apologist... I'm somewhere in between.

And when it comes to trying to figure out these continuity errors and conundrums (i.e., "Why did Obi-Wan say X or Y in the OT when it was A and B in the PT?" and "How can Leia remember her mother, but not Luke?") I can no longer hem, haw, spin and rationalize as if I work for LucasBooks. Instead, I've moved on and use Occam's Razor to come to one sobering conclusion: Lucas simply did not think all of this through as much as some of us nerds have. And here we are...

Thats exactly how I feel but its still kind of fun to try to fill in the gaps sometimes.

 

[gatchatom]

I'm really enjoying this thread.

I have to say the fact that the Jedi didn't do more about slavery never really bothered me much. My reason has more to do with life on this world than anything to do with Star Wars mythos. If you look at our own world's history the Vatican turned a blind eye to the suffering of the Jews in WWII. Today powerful nations that could intervene into the slaughter in Darfur do almost nothing to stop the bloodshed and suffering. The Jedi had more pressing things to attended to. Sure some people were suffering in slavery, but that was way over on the other side of the galaxy. They were just to busy.

 

[D. Martin]

Actualy, Dooku Leaves Right after the Jedi Slaughtered the Mandolorians. The jedi are tricked into getting involved with the Madolorian civil war, And are made to slaughter One side of them. for the record, Jango's side. This happens some time BEFORE TPM. This act plants the seed of doubt in Dooku, and he leaves the order shortly theirafter. All this is detailed, I beleive in the dark horse Jango Fett Comic series, give me a few moments, I'll get you the exact issue number.

I certainly don't count the EU in my understanding/ hypothesizing of Star Wars.

 

[pixletwin]

I certainly don't count the EU in my understanding/ hypothesizing of Star Wars.

Yup. In the SW universe in my mind you can pretty much write-off EVERYTHING after ROTJ as never having happened.

PT EU is a wee bit more palatable for me though.

 

[Captain Faramir]

Yeah, I accept most of what goes on in the Clone Wars EU, but that's it. As for Dooku, I say he left because of Qui-Gon's death. He obviously feared that the Jedi were losing control and making mistakes, but the death of his apprentice really tipped him over, leaving the anger which Sidious was then able to channel into hate.

 

[Atom Hues]

I'm really enjoying this thread.

I have to say the fact that the Jedi didn't do more about slavery never really bothered me much. My reason has more to do with life on this world than anything to do with Star Wars mythos. If you look at our own world's history the Vatican turned a blind eye to the suffering of the Jews in WWII. Today powerful nations that could intervene into the slaughter in Darfur do almost nothing to stop the bloodshed and suffering. The Jedi had more pressing things to attended to. Sure some people were suffering in slavery, but that was way over on the other side of the galaxy. They were just to busy.

My point was about the likeability of main characters vs. ancient organizations
that have lost their way.

It's all well and good that The Jedi Knights might have been a crummy company that deserved a good @$$-whuppin'.

But to take Tom's analogy of The Vatican in WW2.... if you were making a story about Roman Catholics in WW2, and your protagonists are two priests and a nun, and you take the story time to bring up the issue of the slaughter of the Jews, and then NOT have your two priests & a nun even ADDRESS it.... that kinda makes your main characters seem a little heartless.

Especially when they're not SUPPOSED to be heartless, and we are supposed to actually empathize with them.

And the Jedi didn't have too much pressing business to go take care of slaves on Tatooine. For 10 years? The Clone Wars, that big pile of paperwork that put the Jedi on double-overtime, didn't start until the end of ATTACK OF THE CLONES.

It's one of those things that is difficult to retro-continuity a good excuse/rationalization for, so you have to chalk it up to something OUTSIDE the story: the people who created the story, the screenwriters, what have you.

There's just some things you can't rationalize away, within the context of the story. One of them, for me personally, is Obi-wan, Anakin, and Padme just FORGETTING the plight of slaves from Episode Uno.

For someone else, it might be, oh, let's say, Luke & Leia sharing as many onscreen liplocks as Han & Leia, with Leia admitting that "somehow, she's always known" that they were brother an sister. Or Leia saying she remembered her real mother, even though Padme lives for about 20 seconds after Leia pops out.

 

[Captain Faramir]

To be fair, Obi-Wan never even left the ship, and Qui-Gon seemed to have his mind on other matters at the time. He may have heard of it, but he never saw it and might not have known much if Anakin didn't wanna talk about it. For Padme though, there's no excuse--she should have done something as soon as she became Senator. And Anaking was just dumb.

 

[Prime Clone]

The Jedi probably didn't do anything about slavery on Tatooine because it was outside the Republic's jurisdiction, "controlled by the Hutts". Even in the OT the Empire only bothers with the planet because it's chasing the Death Star plans.

Something else that runs through my mind when watching ANH nowadays is, what is Vader thinking as the Blockade Runner/Star Destroyer approach Tatooine?