Religulous

[Badvermin]

I almost forgot about this movie. I just added it to my Netflix list, I can't wait to see it. Jesus Camp was interesting as well.

It has to be better than that horribly made Ben Stein movie. I had to shut that crap off after only 10 minutes.

 

[karamazov80]

But the label that religion makes people do bad things is as ridiculous as video games makes people do bad things.

People do bad things to do bad things, they just find whatever is convenient to justify or blame it on.

I agree with that to some extent. Religion and nationalism are very similar, in that they are typically based on developing strong self-identities that exist in relation to some clearly defined "other." But from this, it is not difficult to begin viewing the "other" not only as something less "good" than the self, but as less than a person. This is what soldiers are explicitly taught to do with regard to their enemies.

Religion can do the same thing. Now, would Islamic extremists behave the same way that they do without religion? Perhaps, but the alternative would require strong local identities of some kind (since these individuals don't have state identities to speak of), or strong adherence to some ideology (like Communism, though this only works in certain cultures with specific histories re: class conflict; or fascism, though this is often built upon an existing "state" identity) and it is much easier for warlords and politicians to exploit religious ideas and fears in order to rally support over that of some more abstract "communal identity". The idea of religion is easy to understand, helps us to alleviate many of our conscious and unconscious fears about reality, gives us clear purpose, and as such, really helps to overcome issues such as organization and the "collective action problem." So, it can be used to make bad things happen more frequently, and more efficiently, than they otherwise would.

Would people do bad things without religion? Undoubtedly. But organized violence would be less frequent, particularly at the sub-state level, where those who want to control don't have the resources to use fear and intimidation as a means to persuade. Of course, religious zealots could then be used to create fear in the populace, which then makes the religion idea less important than it initially was as this becomes a self-perpetuating process, and you have stuff like you see in Africa.

 

[barbelith]

But the label that religion makes people do bad things is as ridiculous as video games makes people do bad things.

Not really. Religion does have a silly hold on some people. Just look how some people respond when presented with a reasoned critique of their myths. It's absurd to blame religion for every bad thing a religious person does but it's also absurd to pretend there's not something going on there.

I should point out that I'm an atheist and a fan of Bill Maher but I hated Religulous. It just wasn't that compelling, but then again I find the basic arguments obvious and evidential. Jesus Camp is far more damning.

 

[tomandshell]

I don't like smug people. Not smug atheists, not smug Christians or Muslims or Jews or Buddhists or whatever--I just don't care for smug people, period. And I find Bill Maher to be smug, so he's not really my cup of tea. He could sit there and try to tell me that two plus two is four and I would change the channel.

 

[Batty]

Do you like Smaug?

 

[The Chaver]

Religion is a form of control (a ridiculous form of control at that!), a way of controlling the masses.Religion was made for the poor and unsuccessful.Do you think that rich people really beleive in this stuff?? Not even the leaders of these religions beleive in this stuff,but they do beleive in the money and control they get from it!

I'll believe in nothing,I'll be better off...

 

[gdb]

Good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but to get good people to do bad things takes religion.

 

[Bannister]

Good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but to get good people to do bad things takes religion.

I will do bad things for money.

 

[tomandshell]

Do you like Smaug?

That I do!!!

 

[Darklord Dave]

I didn't like Maher on the Oscars - he kind of undermined the tone that Hugh had established. I saw Religulous in the theater and didn't find it compelling - he didn't really confront anyone that could challenge his hypothesis. Although the US Catholic priest he found at the Vatican was a funny and very engaging.

 

[Jen]

I will do bad things for money.

I know of some people downtown who will do some bad things for drugs or a fifth of Jack Daniels. Don't think they would do anything good or bad for religion though.

 

[barbelith]

I saw Religulous in the theater and didn't find it compelling - he didn't really confront anyone that could challenge his hypothesis. Although the US Catholic priest he found at the Vatican was a funny and very engaging.

Well to be fair he wouldn't be able to meet anyone who could challenge his hypothesis, because it can't really be challenged. It's very interesting that the only person capable of putting up a real defense did so by refusing to defend. That priest outside the Vatican was terrific. I suspect he would have had a similarly hard time interviewing the Dalai Lama.

 

[wilcocash]

I felt it was a good movie and not as smug as some think. He was not preaching athiesm. He was preaching doubt......I think that is fair. I believe that everything was not possible w/o some higher force, but I have a hard time with organized religion as it is just one more method to keep people apart or oppressed. My Grandmother grew up in a small farming community where there were no minorities. But she would tell me about how her parents would not talk so much to another family because they were lutheran.
I also find it sad the the election of an african-american to president was marred by gay marriage being banned in California. that was pretty weak sauce. The purpose of faith is to work on yourself and help others, not hide behind self-righteousness and judge others.

 

[Scar]

Well to be fair he wouldn't be able to meet anyone who could challenge his hypothesis, because it can't really be challenged. It's very interesting that the only person capable of putting up a real defense did so by refusing to defend. That priest outside the Vatican was terrific. I suspect he would have had a similarly hard time interviewing the Dalai Lama.

Loved the priest. The impression my girlfriend and I got was that he probably ambushed this guy right when he came out of a bar. Guy was a hoot.

That's the interesting part about the movie, you can't really refute it. Maher really did his homework when he put the film together to demonstrate a lot of the contrivances of different faiths, and often the ridiculousness of the application of such tenets. What could anyone offer up to counter him? The only thing that really stopped him in his tracks was when the faux Jesus from Orlando made the analogy between the Holy Trinity and the physical states of water. I know that took me aback a little, and I'm a spiritual person but not a religious person... and even that is largely out of vanity.

 

[Scar]

I felt it was a good movie and not as smug as some think. He was not preaching athiesm. He was preaching doubt......I think that is fair. I believe that everything was not possible w/o some higher force, but I have a hard time with organized religion as it is just one more method to keep people apart or oppressed. My Grandmother grew up in a small farming community where there were no minorities. But she would tell me about how her parents would not talk so much to another family because they were lutheran.
I also find it sad the the election of an african-american to president was marred by gay marriage being banned in California. that was pretty weak sauce. The purpose of faith is to work on yourself and help others, not hide behind self-righteousness and judge others.

That's really the point of the entire film, that what religions often preach are not necessarily truly moral lifestyles, but often that the followers of one and only one faith are destined for paradise and all others for eternal damnation. That's something I would have been capable of questioning when I was five; I have an uncle who is a Buddhist, born and raised. He is one of the most philanthropic, self-sacrificing, kind, and outright hilarious people I know; it would be hopelessly and irrevocably egoistic and uncompromising to brand him hell-bound when I act considerably worse and have a much bleaker outlook for the human race, yet that I'm going to heaven because I'm a Christian.

All he wants is for people to ask questions, to have the slightest bits of doubt, and not take everything on blind faith, which really, as he points out, is willful foolishness. There's a lot of contradiction which we're asked to absorb based on unquestioning obedience. "It is not ours to question nor understand the motives of God." What a crock of ^^^^. I'm sorry, but that's exactly what it is. Two of my cousins over the past five years died from very, very aggressive cancer, dying in excruciating pain weeks after their diagnoses. One was a woman in her late 30s who worked at a soup kitchen on weekends and desperately wanted to conceive a child. Yet there are people who would tell me her death was "all part of God's plan"? My other cousin was in her mid-20s and wanted to become a pediatrician; she loved children and was extremely intelligent, no doubt she could have saved lives and improved the lives of many children and their families. Why did the divine plan require her to die, and quite painfully at that? I've learned to question, and to have doubt, and often it takes immense shock to move the foundations of peoples' beliefs. The movie brings you the gift of doubt. Do with it what you will.

 

[Ancient Astronaut]

If anyone is interested here is a link to the full movie. I just got done watching it.

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3791007322683758535&ei=hk4aSpDkI52IqQOxgKn4Ag&q=religulous

 

[jinxx]

is it on dvd now!?....

edit: never mind!..thanks ancient astronaut!

 

[Entropy]

Not a huge fan of Religulous, but I am a huge fan of embracing doubt and simply acknowledging the irrefutable fact that none of us really has any answers about God, the soul or death. Too many foolish people running about blathering that they have a monopoly on truth. It is ok to not know. To pretend you do can be dangerous and destructive. I wish there were more films like this.

 

[jinxx]

just finished watching.....it was so-so but there was some moments....FATHER REGINALD FOSTER ROCKS!....I love the honesty of this man!...shoot, if he was the priest at my local church, I'll attend his mass every mathafacking time!

 

[karamazov80]

I saw it there as well, and agree about that Priest. He was awesome. But my favorite was probably the Church of Cannabis guy.