S.H.FiguArts Dragonball Z figures!!!

[Big Deano]

Yeah, it was never explained how Goku or Vegeta gained ss2, if I was to guess id say it was a "backdoor" to the form much like Vegeta did to get to ssj.

 

[Agalopez]

Well they said vegeta didn't stop training the 7 years there was peace. You could expect the same for Goku since he loves to train as well. Plus the boost he got made him even stronger.

 

[krec9]

Well they said vegeta didn't stop training the 7 years there was peace. You could expect the same for Goku since he loves to train as well. Plus the boost he got made him even stronger.

I always thought he reached the level of SS2 just way before he got the boost.

 

[Silrian]

Yeah, it was never explained how Goku or Vegeta gained ss2, if I was to guess id say it was a "backdoor" to the form much like Vegeta did to get to ssj.

Unless there's a factual source to correct me, and bearing in mind neither the movies nor GT is strictly canon, I'm still of the opinion Vegeta never reached SSJ2. He reached the POWER LEVEL OF SSJ2 via babidi's Majin spell. But he never naturally reached the level of ssj2 by independent means as far as I can say. Or in short, he pretty much cheated his way into ssj2 and he kinda admits that during his fight with Goku too.

Don't get me wrong I love Vegeta, but the anime isn't all that kind to 'm and clearly he's not naturally of Goku or Gohan's potential. Don't know if that's akin to the manga.

And please don't start idiotic rants or discussions. If you have an objective canon source to correct me, I will immediately accept that. But as far as I know there's 1) no explicit confirmation of him ever reaching ssj2 (although he does have the electricity) and 2) if he did, then he didn't do it naturally, but via Babidi's majin powers, which he explicitely admits in his fight with Goku.

 

[Big Deano]

Yeah, to me Vegeta wouldnt have resigned himself to not being able to attain ss2, thats not his nature, he would have found a way; the reason he allowed himself to be corrupted was because he realised that Goku had still become stronger than him even after his training, and he wanted to one-up him for once.

 

[Agalopez]

He probably achieved a low/mid level SS2, but noticed goku was much stronger so with the boost it put him on par if not a bit stronger than Goku.

 

[Big Deano]

He probably achieved a low/mid level SS2, but noticed goku was much stronger so with the boost it put him on par if not a bit stronger than Goku.

Id agree with that; its hinted at more than a few times that Vegeta had at least attained ss2, but maybe not mastered it. When Gohan fought Dabura Vegeta made it clear that he thought Gohan had become weak in the 7 years since Cell; to me he would not have said that unless Vegeta himself had reached that level of power, plus, Vegeta was confident he would have been able to beat Dabura so that is proof enough to me.

 

[Agalopez]

Some guys on the other boards I visit were having a debate on how strong pikkon was since he hit cell, anyways off topic but they made this little chat I kind if agree on dealing with SS2's:





In my honest opinion, I think there's more like 4 tiers of SS2 like there is SS1.

High tier SS2: Goku Buu saga, Majin Vegeta, Vegeta after Babidi.

Higher Mid tier SS2: Vegeta before Babidi, Gohan with rage Cell Saga, Super Perfect Cell.

Lower mid tier SS2: Dabura, Gohan Babidi Saga, Gohan weakened Cell Saga.

Low tier SS2: Perfect Cell, Pikkon, Super Kaioken Goku (I can agree with this now, but that's all I can see)

 

[Silrian]

I'm not trying to nag, but where is it hinted apart from him having the electricity if I recall? It's barely shown Goku has attained SSJ2.

Honestly, I wish they'd just ommited Goku's ssj2 and called his ssj 3 mode his specific version of ssj2.

Gohan is young but his hair kinda is a bit long in ssj2 mode. That's his ssj2, Goku's ssj3 should've been his ssj2 imo, because Goku is adult, more experienced and his ssj2 would've just been stronger and unique to his insane power.

Then Goku vs Vegeta would've just been them as SSJ's and at the top of their game. And SSj2 Gohan and "ssj3 Goku" would be the only two with a level above ssj.

I'd have preferred that... Especially because it seems cool to me that if you ascend a ssj, you'd get unique traits to that post-ssj level (like Goku's long hair).

 

[Big Deano]

Well, Pikkon was filler so naturally he isnt consistent power wise; you could say he caught Cell offguard, but with characters like this there just isnt enough accuracy to say one way or the other.

 

[Big Deano]

I'm not trying to nag, but where is it hinted apart from him having the electricity if I recall? It's barely shown Goku has attained SSJ2.

Honestly, I wish they'd just ommited Goku's ssj2 and called his ssj 3 mode his specific version of ssj2.

Gohan is young but his hair kinda is a bit long in ssj2 mode. That's his ssj2, Goku's ssj3 should've been his ssj2 imo, because Goku is adult, more experienced and his ssj2 would've just been stronger and unique to his insane power.

Then Goku vs Vegeta would've just been them as SSJ's and at the top of their game. And SSj2 Gohan and "ssj3 Goku" would be the only two with a level above ssj.

I'd have preferred that... Especially because it seems cool to me that if you ascend a ssj, you'd get unique traits to that post-ssj level (like Goku's long hair).

I edited my previous post to give the most convincing evidence.

 

[Silrian]

Id agree with that; its hinted at more than a few times that Vegeta had at least attained ss2, but maybe not mastered it. When Gohan fought Dabura Vegeta made it clear that he thought Gohan had become weak in the 7 years since Cell; to me he would not have said that unless Vegeta himself had reached that level of power, plus, Vegeta was confident he would have been able to beat Dabura so that is proof enough to me.

Yeah it totally is not for me. Vegeta noticed Goku was a ssj even before Goku actually was ssj. I don't see why Vegeta wouldn't be able to spot Gohan's weakened state wihtout being a ssj2 himself.

I also think power level shouldn't be equated to ssj2 or 3. That's why I dislike the ssj2-3 distinction. A new ssj level imo should be something totally unique in more ways then just more power. Like the fact that you hair could grow or you aura changes dramatically to have electricity.

When Goku turned SSJ you could see something actually happened. A real transformation. As well as SSJ2 Gohan during Cell. Same with Vegeta reaching ssj, Same with Goku reaching ssj3.

But Goku and possibly Vegeta's ssj 2 mode is just... it's barely anything. I dislike that. It cheapens the whole ssj-thing.

Imo SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ3 Goku should've been the only two instances where someone really treads into a transformation above ssj. The rest should just be an even stronger ssj imo...

 

[Silrian]

Oh and Majin Vegeta and Mystic Gohan tread beyond ssj as well obviously, but those aren't ssj transformations.

 

[Silrian]

And take note I'm not trying to argua Vegeta is weaker then he is or whatever. I'm just saying I dislike de tdestinction between ssj 2 and 3 and with that the existence of 3. I'd have preffered you're a saiyin, you can go beyond and become a Super saiyin. And after that you can go into unique transformations which you'd aptly call ssj2. And that's it. And in that case Vegeta might be insanely strong, but he doesn't transform like Goku does with 3 or Gohan did with 2. He transforms using the majin power. Which is also a transformation, but not a SSJ one.

I still don't see a reason to call Vegeta ssj 2, and I still think it's effed up Goku all of a sudden was one.

I just have issues with the sloppyness as a whole in the Buu saga. It just cheapened the whole thing to me.

And I mean I'll settle, I'm willing to view Vegeta as SSJ2. This isn't about taking something away from the character. But at the least I just dislike how it was done.

 

[krec9]

And take note I'm not trying to argua Vegeta is weaker then he is or whatever. I'm just saying I dislike de tdestinction between ssj 2 and 3 and with that the existence of 3. I'd have preffered you're a saiyin, you can go beyond and become a Super saiyin. And after that you can go into unique transformations which you'd aptly call ssj2. And that's it. And in that case Vegeta might be insanely strong, but he doesn't transform like Goku does with 3 or Gohan did with 2. He transforms using the majin power. Which is also a transformation, but not a SSJ one.

I still don't see a reason to call Vegeta ssj 2, and I still think it's effed up Goku all of a sudden was one.

I just have issues with the sloppyness as a whole in the Buu saga. It just cheapened the whole thing to me.

And I mean I'll settle, I'm willing to view Vegeta as SSJ2. This isn't about taking something away from the character. But at the least I just dislike how it was done.

i agree it was a mess .

 

[Silrian]

My prefference would be that the buu saga had long haired Goku, Majin Vegeta, Mystic Gohan, Long haired Gotenks and Vegito as characters in a state beyond super saiyin. Why couldn't they just leave it at that? Just don't even mention a ssj2 or 3. Just make it normal>ssj>unique. Done.

I think that'd been sooo much cooler. "This is my normal state. This is a Super saiyin. And this... is to go even beyond!"...

/ramble

 

[Hydeous]

These conversations got me thinking, since vegeta doesnt rule out cheating his way to greater power in order to exceed goku, why cant he just stock up on sentou beans and ask trunks to blast him to near death, eat those beans and repeat.

 

[Silrian]

These conversations got me thinking, since vegeta doesnt rule out cheating his way to greater power in order to exceed goku, why cant he just stock up on sentou beans and ask trunks to blast him to near death, eat those beans and repeat.

Because that's a stupid goof about dbz in general. I wouldn't even call that cheating. A Sensu Bean recovering you isn't more cheating then resting. It's just a way to recover. The training is still just as hard. Although they do seem to be somewhat scarce.

One can also say a true warrior is beyond pride and simply vanquishes his foe, because he can. Meaning Vegeta is lessened as a warrior for letting cell live. It basically comes down to all of these characters being, for whatever reason, flawed in whatever they do.

Flavor text:
"Were you that Freezer guy?"
"I am Lord Frieza, yes..."
"Awesome! Imma deck you in the schnoze!"
"I'm sorry that's a new one, who are you exactly?"
"I'm Goku! I'm insane! From earth!"
("He means saiyin, ugh...")
"Hmmm well between you and the Namekian I think I've lost my touch for genocide..."

 

[blood]

These conversations got me thinking, since vegeta doesnt rule out cheating his way to greater power in order to exceed goku, why cant he just stock up on sentou beans and ask trunks to blast him to near death, eat those beans and repeat.

when did he cheat?

 

[Silrian]

when did he cheat?

He used Majin powers to amp himself up to Goku's level. He literally says this during their Buu saga fight. I watched it recently.