Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (September 3rd, 2021)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

It’s kind a messed up that the end tag says that the ten rings will return it doesn’t say Shang Chi will return lol

They forgot he was in the movie.

 

[ZE_501]

Nah, the whole point is for those people to be larger than life, to inspire regular people to be better than their crappy selves. Imagine if Michael Jordan was average...who wants to be like that Mike? Nobody. When I used to watch Sly or Arnold, I wasn't thinking, man, I wish they looked like me. Why, so they suck too? No thanks. The truth is, people don't want their heroes to be relatable. They want them to be better in every way if possible.

As for Bland Chi, at least he does cool stuff when he's got the rings. Hopefully he gets a better costume and image in future films.

How "relatable" is that shredded, V-torso dude's rockin'? That's at minimum a full year of training for a 'normal' person with a day job, 5-6 days a week, 1.5 - 3 hours per day with a disciplined diet, give or take taking into account the base and the genetics they started with.

I'm telling ya, it's the haircut.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

How "relatable" is that shredded, V-torso dude's rockin'? That's at minimum a full year of training for a 'normal' person with a day job, 5-6 days a week, 1.5 - 3 hours per day with a disciplined diet, give or take taking into account the base and the genetics they started with.

I'm telling ya, it's the haircut.

I know. He's too clean cut and dull. He needs long flowing hair.

 

[jedibear]

I don’t really understand anyone calling this movie woke. Just because it doesn’t have a straight white male protagonist doesn’t make it woke.

It’s a superhero movie about a dysfunctional family who just happen to be Asian. There are pretty much no “woke” themes in this entire movie.

Falcon & The Winter Soldier on the other hand…

The "woke" term has become too much of a "one size fits all" kind of label these days to be sure. Having said that...I think there is a case to made made for that label fitting here.

As for this movie being "woke"...some spoilers ahead.

Well, the movie's namesake is consistently sidelined by "strong female characters" to the point of being ridiculous.

The "amusing" companion who is by his side goading him on with almost nagging comments until finally at the end it is HER that saves the day with little to no training because...girls are just better.

The long-hidden sister who inexplicably exposes him to danger so she can publically humiliate him, right down to kicking him in the nuts using fight skills she taught herself AND manages to save amusing sidekick from dropping to her death because...girls are just better.

The mother who trains him in fight styles that are better and more effective than his fathers and then leaves a stunning corpse after being beaten to death by a large group of men because...girls are just better.

The Auntie who runs the magic village and imparts more training and wisdom to him than dad ever did because, yes, girls are just better.

The lead character ends up being emasculated by the end of the movie to the point where all he has to show for it are the lousy bracelets that got dad into trouble for all those years. It leaves one wondering what his story was before it was bound up in discussions with whatever committee decides what the movie should be to have the broadest appeal. The name of the movie is almost a lie. Shang Chi is a side character in his own story and the rings are nothing more than a plot device to provide whatever the current set piece calls for. Nothing is really revealed about where the rings come from, what they really are, what they really do or what limits they may have. That is, until the little teaser scene at the end which just acknowledges that they are indeed a mystery and...stay tuned!

Despite all that, I did like this as I watched but I'm almost afraid to see this again for fear it will fall apart even more and wipe away any of the good beats it had. It also makes me realize that "Iron Man" probably couldn't be made the way it was in today's climate. And that the MCU ended with "Endgame" for me...

 

[matticus]

The "woke" term has become too much of a "one size fits all" kind of label these days to be sure. Having said that...I think there is a case to made made for that label fitting here.

As for this movie being "woke"...some spoilers ahead.

Well, the movie's namesake is consistently sidelined by "strong female characters" to the point of being ridiculous.

The "amusing" companion who is by his side goading him on with almost nagging comments until finally at the end it is HER that saves the day with little to no training because...girls are just better.

The long-hidden sister who inexplicably exposes him to danger so she can publically humiliate him, right down to kicking him in the nuts using fight skills she taught herself AND manages to save amusing sidekick from dropping to her death because...girls are just better.

The mother who trains him in fight styles that are better and more effective than his fathers and then leaves a stunning corpse after being beaten to death by a large group of men because...girls are just better.

The Auntie who runs the magic village and imparts more training and wisdom to him than dad ever did because, yes, girls are just better.

The lead character ends up being emasculated by the end of the movie to the point where all he has to show for it are the lousy bracelets that got dad into trouble for all those years. It leaves one wondering what his story was before it was bound up in discussions with whatever committee decides what the movie should be to have the broadest appeal. The name of the movie is almost a lie. Shang Chi is a side character in his own story and the rings are nothing more than a plot device to provide whatever the current set piece calls for. Nothing is really revealed about where the rings come from, what they really are, what they really do or what limits they may have. That is, until the little teaser scene at the end which just acknowledges that they are indeed a mystery and...stay tuned!

Despite all that, I did like this as I watched but I'm almost afraid to see this again for fear it will fall apart even more and wipe away any of the good beats it had. It also makes me realize that "Iron Man" probably couldn't be made the way it was in today's climate. And that the MCU ended with "Endgame" for me...

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed. Surprised the show the girl in the face on the bus actually made the cut. Seems like no male can superior any female in big one on one fights. Of course the one that has no ability can arrow one shot some dragon, I had to skip through that part as the whole sequence was too ridiculous for me. Can't wait till Love and Thunder where Thor will suffer the same fate with Jane. I plan on passing on that one too unless the trailer blows me away.

 

[Victοr]

True, a lot of Chinese people online called him ugly. Now, I wouldn't go that far, but just looking at hm in the trailer, I thought he looked bland, and I was right. He's just bland like Winter Soldier with short hair. Black Panther was kind of bland too, but not Shang Chi bland. They should have given him long hair at least. I don't know, I don't think every hero needs to be good looking, but they should at least have an interesting look, so they stand out a bit. Like a young Jackie Chan, he was kind cute/instantly likable and had tons of personality and charisma. Bruce Lee still the standard for Asian action heroes. He was handsome, cool, and badass. Disney should have just CGI him as Shang Chi.

More or less, yeah. He just looks like an average bloke, not the MC of some epic adventure.

Okay, you're talking about archetypes. It's just that I've spent decades in martial arts gyms, and for every guy that looks like a super-duper martial artist there are ten that look like 'your friend at a law firm' who will break a mofo in half like it ain't no thang.

Well... yeah. Superheroes are cast based on archetypes. I don't want to see Joe from the Supermarket beat up Brad from the Bank. It's not some deep drama about life that demands a true representation of humanity. It's capeshit. So I want the guys to be handsome and the gals to be hot. Or at least have an interesting face. I'm not expecting everyone to be Cavill, but I'd like something more than invisible ordinary. Like I said before, Shea Whingham is a fine actor, but he's the "average guy you see everywhere" type. You wouldn't cast him as anything beyond some side-character like Bullock. Old Man Bruce would be played by Tom Selleck.

But his character needed to be a valet parker regular guy not Bruce Lee from the first frame so I understand their decisions.

But you are 100% right….

View attachment 537468

Imagine if Boba Fett was revealed to look like Bob from accounting. I doubt his fame would've been the same...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed. Surprised the show the girl in the face on the bus actually made the cut. Seems like no male can superior any female in big one on one fights. Of course the one that has no ability can arrow one shot some dragon, I had to skip through that part as the whole sequence was too ridiculous for me. Can't wait till Love and Thunder where Thor will suffer the same fate with Jane. I plan on passing on that one too unless the trailer blows me away.

Wait, what? Does Shang chi get beat up by a girl?

 

[ZE_501]

Well... yeah. Superheroes are cast based on archetypes. I don't want to see Joe from the Supermarket beat up Brad from the Bank. It's not some deep drama about life that demands a true representation of humanity. It's capeshit. So I want the guys to be handsome and the gals to be hot. Or at least have an interesting face. I'm not expecting everyone to be Cavill, but I'd like something more than invisible ordinary.

I agree most of the time, but don't mind when the MCU tries to give us something a little different in the films every now and then -- studios don't take enough risks as it is, which is one reason why movies are so boring these days.

I understand gambling on a 'relatable' actor isn't going to result in groundbreaking movie making on its own, but every little thing. And if some things don't land, so be it.

Tobey Maguire looks like an accountant and remains a beloved Peter Parker -- who was supposed to be a nerd, sure -- but you get what I mean. I definitely wouldn't have cast him and I think I would have been wrong.

 

[chrisstbh]

There are plenty of bland looking stars in the MCU

 

[a-dev]

With all the crying memes and the Bully Maguire stuff I thought a lot of people had turned on him and his portrayal but the general vibe I'm getting in advance of No Way Home is that people are going to be disgusted if Tobey isn't in it. There seems to still be a lot of love for him as Spiderman.

 

[Victοr]

I agree most of the time, but don't mind when the MCU tries to give us something a little different in the films every now and then -- studios don't take enough risks as it is, which is one reason why movies are so boring these days.

I understand gambling on a 'relatable' actor isn't going to result in groundbreaking movie making on its own, but every little thing. And if some things don't land, so be it.

Tobey Maguire looks like an accountant and remains a beloved Peter Parker -- who was supposed to be a nerd, sure -- but you get what I mean. I definitely wouldn't have cast him and I think I would have been wrong.

Eh, I see it as capeshit so what I want, always, from the genre, is as close a translation from the funnybooks to the screen; I don't care about anything else.

Tobey-Man was widely ridiculed for that exact reason in comic book forums all the time. It's just that when TASM came out and Parker was portrayed as too much of a "cool" guy, he was hated and people started rating McGuire higher because the Raimi flicks were fun and had passion. Garfield was far closer, appearance wise, to what Parker is supposed to be, but Tobey-Man wins out over nostalgia. He does look too much like an accountant to be Spider-Man, that's true. And that was a complaint even back then. Same way Holland is too much ot a twink manlet to be Spider-MAN. The thing here is that the Raimi flicks wanted to put emphasis on Spider-Man as a completely average joe, so I guess that makes sense there. I like Tobey-Man but out of nostalgia, not as a great Spider-Man adaptation. It's a fine time-capsule and a solid set of fun capeflicks.

There are plenty of bland looking stars in the MCU

Sure, but not as the main stars. The MCU began with RDJ, Evans, Hemsworth and ScarJo. Renner looks bland and everyday, yeah, and that's why he's a supporting character who didn't even get a solo flick. Clark Gregg is the average joe who appears for five minutes. They're not being pushed to the forefront. Ruffallo is pretty doughy-looking (though I do think he's got screen presence), but again, he's just supposed to be a scientist and is always playing a supporting role; he's not sold as some action star. Norton was a much more interesting take and could carry his own flick as the MC.
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Either way, we're all going in circles at this point. I think the guy looks too much like an invisible passerby to take him seriously as a superhero. But I don't care about Shang-Chi as a property, so I'm not irked about it. Yet, that's my stance in general. It's why I don't like goofy Kang or Iron Boy. Your face, build, everything, has to match the character. It's capeshit, not some grand poetic adaptation. The vast majority of actors can "play" the characters in theory, so just look for the ones closer to the personality and the look.

But hey, this is a character/corner I don't care about at all, so if the fans like the way it's been handled in the MCU, I'm happy for them. I was never going to go head over heels over it anyhow. I'm just firmly in the camp that all such characters should be idealised versions, not realistic ones.

With all the crying memes and the Bully Maguire stuff I thought a lot of people had turned on him and his portrayal but the general vibe I'm getting in advance of No Way Home is that people are going to be disgusted if Tobey isn't in it. There seems to still be a lot of love for him as Spiderman.

The kids who grew up with Raimi-Man are more less the ones making these vids. Nostalgia drives the vast, vast majority of them, so they obviously want Tobey-Man in it.

 

[jye4ever]

All that talk about the dragon protector and all the power those rings possessed BUT it was aqua phoenix that saved the day with her arrow!

Screw it have her replace Hawkeye and his daughter in the MCU lol

Just because this movie was better than BW does it mean it was a good movie.

That being said it is a downright masterpiece when compared to WW84 at least no dragon was ***** lol

 

[matticus]

All that talk about the dragon protector and all the power those rings possessed BUT it was aqua phoenix that saved the day with her arrow!

Screw it have her replace Hawkeye and his daughter in the MCU lol

Just because this movie was better than BW does it mean it was a good movie.

That being said it is a downright masterpiece when compared to WW84 at least no dragon was ***** lol

It baffles me that people like this movie at all. A couple cool fight scenes, that didn't make sense as his father wanted his help, but the rings and fantasy village just don't do anything for me. Iron Fist is my boy, and if this was his movie, I would be pissed with him in a vehicle going through moving trees, again, moving trees, with some *** with wings talking to a not bad guy who was a bad guy actor that makes no sense to have a significant role in this film. To each their own.

If only Sony could move up Spider-Man.

 

[matticus]

Wait, what? Does Shang chi get beat up by a girl?

Well was kind of a cheap shot by his sister. You know it was over for him when he would have to face a woman in a Hollywood movie. He is lucky to have lived.

 

[GhostBeard]

It baffles me that people like this movie at all. A couple cool fight scenes, that didn't make sense as his father wanted his help, but the rings and fantasy village just don't do anything for me. Iron Fist is my boy, and if this was his movie, I would be pissed with him in a vehicle going through moving trees, again, moving trees, with some *** with wings talking to a not bad guy who was a bad guy actor that makes no sense to have a significant role in this film. To each their own.

If only Sony could move up Spider-Man.

What were your thoughts on the Netflix Iron Fist? I was into the idea of a hippie superhero, which I thought they were going for at first, to contrast more with Luke Cage, but obviously the show fell apart quickly.

 

[matticus]

What were your thoughts on the Netflix Iron Fist? I was into the idea of a hippie superhero, which I thought they were going for at first, to contrast more with Luke Cage, but obviously the show fell apart quickly.

You can be an apologist for something and I am a little on it. I think the expectations on the kung fu got out of hand for a tv show and the story gave him the Captain Marvel "my head's messed up" and it is clear the approach on both failed. No dragon, no IF suit both hurt. It didn't start off great with some clamoring for a Chinese-America for the role and it got some bad press for it, but the actor is too whiny and that made him/the show unappealing. Doesn't help with the supporting actress being smarter and tougher than him.

Makes it tough for someone like Feige to have the Netflix characters in. The one nobody likes, but the other 3 you can't imagine someone else playing as their respective characters. I'm not even sure if it is possible cause Netflix owns the rights to those characters in those specific shows. Only thing we have seen cross over is the Sony Spider-Man characters, which Sony and Marvel have a partnership on.

 

[jye4ever]

You can be an apologist for something and I am a little on it. I think the expectations on the kung fu got out of hand for a tv show and the story gave him the Captain Marvel "my head's messed up" and it is clear the approach on both failed. No dragon, no IF suit both hurt. It didn't start off great with some clamoring for a Chinese-America for the role and it got some bad press for it, but the actor is too whiny and that made him/the show unappealing. Doesn't help with the supporting actress being smarter and tougher than him.

Makes it tough for someone like Feige to have the Netflix characters in. The one nobody likes, but the other 3 you can't imagine someone else playing as their respective characters. I'm not even sure if it is possible cause Netflix owns the rights to those characters in those specific shows. Only thing we have seen cross over is the Sony Spider-Man characters, which Sony and Marvel have a partnership on.

If I’m not mistaken all of those characters are back with Marvel now.

 

[jye4ever]

I don’t think the woke stuff is as excessive and egregious as lets say EG where they all formed up.

Just dumb giving Akwafina her silly moment to shine.

 

[matticus]

If I’m not mistaken all of those characters are back with Marvel now.

The rights to the characters they have back, but can they do a show with those specific actors? Not sure if it will break a contract as in using those actors which will then refer back to your Netflix show. Maybe Feige has other plans? Cause Charlie Cox is really fighting the rumors right now in promoting his Kin show on Netflix.

 

[GhostBeard]

You can be an apologist for something and I am a little on it. I think the expectations on the kung fu got out of hand for a tv show and the story gave him the Captain Marvel "my head's messed up" and it is clear the approach on both failed. No dragon, no IF suit both hurt. It didn't start off great with some clamoring for a Chinese-America for the role and it got some bad press for it, but the actor is too whiny and that made him/the show unappealing. Doesn't help with the supporting actress being smarter and tougher than him.

Makes it tough for someone like Feige to have the Netflix characters in. The one nobody likes, but the other 3 you can't imagine someone else playing as their respective characters. I'm not even sure if it is possible cause Netflix owns the rights to those characters in those specific shows. Only thing we have seen cross over is the Sony Spider-Man characters, which Sony and Marvel have a partnership on.

It was a miscast lead for sure. Making him Asian (to avoid the backlash) would have worked for me, but it would not have saved the show because the writing was not great and I was not as enamored of the supporting cast as others might have been. I recall liking the drunk guy he fought in season 1 even better than Finn, if I'm remembering his name correctly.