What? This is your argument? What about the inaccurate Walrus Man, Greedo, Hammerhead and any number of others? No recall for them either.
And they did correct the blue coat once they started making more accurate figures.
Sideshow Hoth Han Solo (Echo Base)
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What? This is your argument? What about the inaccurate Walrus Man, Greedo, Hammerhead and any number of others? No recall for them either.
And they did correct the blue coat once they started making more accurate figures.
What? This is your argument? What about the inaccurate Walrus Man, Greedo, Hammerhead and any number of others? No recall for them either.
And they did correct the blue coat once they started making more accurate figures.
You mean... 15-20 years later?
And Walrusman... has an orange coat.
And no, cherry picking won't help you... THIS is my argument:
And unless you have a time machine, you are GUESSING or REMEMBERING what was seen in movie theaters in the early 1980's. Citing later video releases is immaterial - those weren't around for many years afterward - in the cases cited, the closest being FIFTEEN YEARS after the theatrical release. LFL, Kenner and the other SW licensees viewed the film at the time of ESB's release and officially deemed it blue - for a broad spectrum of SW merchandise, not just the many Han Hoth items made by Kenner. Again, this was NOT simply a single action figure.
And... you're saying quoting an officially sanctioned/published (with full access to the LFL archives) book is the same as quoting someone on fan forums? That... is a last ditch grab at the rim of the plughole as your argument disappears... and you know it.
Pixelpiper
Super Freak
To be fair, Kenner didn't do the Hasbro re-release game. There were no second Farmboy Lukes to correct the yellow saber either. Kenner stopped making SW figures in 1985. The line didn't get started again until 1995, 4 years after Hasbro acquired Kenner. Had they not, we may not have seen new SW stuff until the prequels.
So I didn't watch ESB on VHS? I don't recall having always known the Kenner figure was wrong? And that's ignoring the previous mentions of having just verified the colors on a VHS. The Laserdisc releases are also from the 80's, not 15 years later.
AND!
Even if in every second of ever scene on every screen the movie originally played in during both theatrical releases, in 1980 and again in 1982, the fact that every other copy of the movie, including subsequent theatrical releases, clearly shows it's a brown coat counts for nothing?
Taking this to a logical extension, what happens when someone wants figures of Gilligan's Island? Should they all be in black, white and greys?
Johnny Carson and the Beatles should be released to match.
I don't know, seems to me the people swearing it should be blue are doing just as much "guessing and remembering". And personally I'd much rather rely on the earliest video evidence over whatever decision a toy company made about something.
Hell, Kenner might have only decided to keep the figures blue because that's exactly what kids like us were now expecting Hoth Han to look like, based on their error! Lol
Hell, Kenner might have only decided to keep the figures blue because that's exactly what kids like us were now expecting Hoth Han to look like, based on their error! Lol
To be fair, Kenner didn't do the Hasbro re-release game. There were no second Farmboy Lukes to correct the yellow saber either. Kenner stopped making SW figures in 1985. The line didn't get started again until 1995, 4 years after Hasbro acquired Kenner. Had they not, we may not have seen new SW stuff until the prequels.
So I didn't watch ESB on VHS? I don't recall having always known the Kenner figure was wrong? And that's ignoring the previous mentions of having just verified the colors on a VHS. The Laserdisc releases are also from the 80's, not 15 years later.
AND!
Even if in every second of ever scene on every screen the movie originally played in during both theatrical releases, in 1980 and again in 1982, the fact that every other copy of the movie, including subsequent theatrical releases, clearly shows it's a brown coat counts for nothing?
Taking this to a logical extension, what happens when someone wants figures of Gilligan's Island? Should they all be in black, white and greys?
Well, Kenner DID correct other things on main character figures...
And no, the first Star Wars Laserdisc was not released (in North America at least) until nearly a decade after ESB was released - 1989. 1980's VHS is hard to judge - watch it today and see if you can make anything out.
Look, nobody can prove what was seen in theaters in 1980, so all we have to go on is the official sources - I've cited two: the fact that Han had a blue coat across a wide variety of approved SW merchandise (beyond just Kenner or toys,) and the recent book's clear confirmation of it appearing blue onscreen at the time. I just think the rest is fan conjecture and memory, and that... just isn't very reliable. It's passionate for sure, but it's not reliable.
The prop coat is indeed 100% brown, and definitely shows as brown in a majority of scenes in later video releases, but I just think we need to accept the fact that, based on it appearing blue onscreen in 1980, the coat was officially approved as blue for many years.
This is indisputable truth. Yes, we should have brown coats now because it's correct, and it is brown onscreen too, but blue cannot be simply discounted because of hindsight. It was 100% officially valid at the time of release, and not simply what dopey fans thought they saw, and based on a single erroneous action figure as people seem to be trying to say. That just isn't true.
This is an insane argument.
So... let's all think really hard and remember, and then admit that to empirical evidence. That's 100% sane.
Me, I'll stick with what is actually known about that 1980 to mid-90's period. Evidence. Official evidence. And that... is this...
How do we know you didn't colorize that?
Pixelpiper
Super Freak
Clearly they screwed up because Luke's saber is supposed to be yellow.
And Robert Redford didn't play Han Solo. And most of the guns, also according to Kenner, are also supposed to be blue. Kenner's un-produced 12" Hoth Han - the background of this image is blue.
Han Solo Hoth Outfit Unproduced Prototype Doll and Box
Even Lucasfilm/Kenner specified brown on this slick (as mentioned previously):
Everyone remember this thread? https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/.../131138-han-solos-hoth-jacket-blue-brown.html Clearly blue won that poll.
It's obvious that everyone knows the coat is brown, so I'm not even sure what the argument is here? Is it that the coat appears blue in some transitions/scenes? Yup, it did. Or is it that it always appeared blue in every second of every scene? Or is it that one side is trying to tell the other side what they (should) remember? No one's going to win that last one, there's no point.
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I think it's a stretch to base everything on what Lucasfilm supposedly "approved." Since I really doubt the marketing or licensing people were that overly concerned whether Han's Hoth coat was being depicted in comics or on toys as blue or brown. Especially given it only appeared in a few scenes early on, and wasn't his main, defining look for the movie.
The bigger question is: "how do we know anything?"
Clearly they screwed up because Luke's saber is supposed to be yellow.
Kenner's un-produced 12" Hoth Han - the background of this image is blue.
Actually, so is the coat.
Even Lucasfilm/Kenner specified brown on this slick (as mentioned previously):
From 1996. Check the rifle.
Yep, won that poll. But so what?
The argument... to be clear... is that the coat appeared blue in the original theatrical release (confirmed by the recent official book,) making LFL approve blue coats in licensed products (confirmed by the wide variety of official product with blue coats.) Over a decade later, as the costume became more widely shown, and many more releases of the film appeared on home video, it became clear that the coat was in fact brown, and appeared brown most of the time in the video releases, and the decision was made (mid 1990's) to officially change the color to brown for all licensed products.
The point is, blue coats were throughout the licensed product and LFL didn't correct it. And this "supposed approval" is conjecture - if you research LFL Licensing in that era, you would see they were quite meticulous in approvals.
Last week George Lucas stated he made all his money "on the toys" - what does that indicate about the level of LFL attention on official product? By 1980, they had it down to a fine art.
From this point forward, Talibane shall be forever known as Taliblue.
Well, you could have been TaliBrown.... but now you're just TaliBlue.
Pixelpiper
Super Freak
Check the thread. If it's from the 90's, it's the only one - as the many others are from 1980-83.
If you remember blue, that's cool. I remember brown and blue lighting.
Today, even watching any number of video releases, some people will say the coat is blue, just like they/others say/said it was when watching the movie theatrically.
Except for the blue versions Hasbro released. Look, if you want empirical evidence (you mentioned it) then there are only examples that plenty of Kenner products were far from film accurate or inspired - whether than means LFL was lax in approvals or something else entirely is conjecture. The only thing that's certain is that the colors and features used on the toys are next to meaningless.
At the end of the day I only get wrapped up in this topic because invariably someone tries to tell me what I (should) be remembering. Sorry, I thought the Kenner figure was wrong when I had it as a kid. Just like I knew the brown vests on the rebel troopers were wrong, etc.
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devilof76
Super Freak
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