SilentSurfer's Laboratory: Come up to the Lab & See What's on the Slab.

[SilentSurfer]

Ultimately it is up to you to decide. Why didn't God just write it Himself and manifest it? God did all sorts of miracles for Israel, and Jesus did plenty in front of thousands Himself, but because of the evil in men's hearts people who saw with their own eyes still would not believe. Instead they killed Jesus.

It's funny that so many think Jesus was a great guy, yet ignore the fact that He claimed to be God and said there is no way to the Father in Heaven except through Him. Either people are seeing only what they want to see, or they respect a nutcase liar.

Many variations based on the same source: what better lie is there than the one that is closest to the truth? The devil's whole focus is to distract the focus of man away from the truth, distort the truth, replace it with lies that sound good, but in the end separate men from the sacrifice of Jesus on their behalf, plain and simple. That man has fought wars and killed because of this is the evidence of man's sin, not an absence of God. The Bible is full of horrible violence, and it will not end until it ends for good, and will only get worse before that.

Why do I believe the Bible above all others? Because the Bible does not dictate a religion. It expresses a relationship God wants to have with the creation He made and loves despite our faults. Like now other book, the Bible describes man and his evil nature with such accuracy that it could not have come from man alone, and it makes it clear that we have never had the power to reach God on our terms as every other religion suggests.

Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Jesus is God's attempt to reach man. Religion says "do this" "don't do that" to obligate the higher power to give you what you deserve. The Bible says, "You deserve nothing and can do nothing to earn Heaven, but because I [God] love you and want to share Heaven with you, I have paid the price for you by my strength, by my sacrifice, by my Son, so that you can have life abundantly by Grace through faith." (paraphrase) And still man can't take a free gift as an answer.

Sean, I respect your views, and I admire your peacefull way of questioning what I believe. Some people simply mock what they don't understand or agree with, and those people are not worth the effort of sharing. Thank you for being a better man than that.

 

[skooternb]

Just wanted to say it has been a pleasure reading your thoughts, as an atheist married to a Catholic and trying to figure it all out.

Sent from the Monolith.

 

[SilentSurfer]

My pleasure, skooternb. That's why I do it. God may not even intend it for the person I'm responding to. There may be many other silent readers who are coming to a new understanding. Amen to that.

Let me say that I do not expect anybody to take my word for anything. If something sounds good to you, or if you want to see if it's all bull, be like the Bereans in the Bible and look into it yourself. Most misunderstanding of the Bible comes from not having read it for yourself.

 

[Dr. Odd]

There may be many other silent readers who are coming to a new understanding.

 

[shocktrooper_au]

My pleasure, skooternb. That's why I do it. God may not even intend it for the person I'm responding to. There may be many other silent readers who are coming to a new understanding. Amen to that.

Let me say that I do not expect anybody to take my word for anything. If something sounds good to you, or if you want to see if it's all bull, be like the Bereans in the Bible and look into it yourself. Most misunderstanding of the Bible comes from not having read it for yourself.

There may be many other silent readers who are coming to a new understanding.

I think god has been whispering to a few of us with eyes to see and ears to listen. we live in interesting times fellas

 

[sdabbs]

Ultimately it is up to you to decide. Why didn't God just write it Himself and manifest it? God did all sorts of miracles for Israel, and Jesus did plenty in front of thousands Himself, but because of the evil in men's hearts people who saw with their own eyes still would not believe. Instead they killed Jesus.

It's funny that so many think Jesus was a great guy, yet ignore the fact that He claimed to be God and said there is no way to the Father in Heaven except through Him. Either people are seeing only what they want to see, or they respect a nutcase liar.

Many variations based on the same source: what better lie is there than the one that is closest to the truth? The devil's whole focus is to distract the focus of man away from the truth, distort the truth, replace it with lies that sound good, but in the end separate men from the sacrifice of Jesus on their behalf, plain and simple. That man has fought wars and killed because of this is the evidence of man's sin, not an absence of God. The Bible is full of horrible violence, and it will not end until it ends for good, and will only get worse before that.

Why do I believe the Bible above all others? Because the Bible does not dictate a religion. It expresses a relationship God wants to have with the creation He made and loves despite our faults. Like now other book, the Bible describes man and his evil nature with such accuracy that it could not have come from man alone, and it makes it clear that we have never had the power to reach God on our terms as every other religion suggests.

Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Jesus is God's attempt to reach man. Religion says "do this" "don't do that" to obligate the higher power to give you what you deserve. The Bible says, "You deserve nothing and can do nothing to earn Heaven, but because I [God] love you and want to share Heaven with you, I have paid the price for you by my strength, by my sacrifice, by my Son, so that you can have life abundantly by Grace through faith." (paraphrase) And still man can't take a free gift as an answer.

Sean, I respect your views, and I admire your peacefull way of questioning what I believe. Some people simply mock what they don't understand or agree with, and those people are not worth the effort of sharing. Thank you for being a better man than that.

I do enjoy hearing others religious viewpoints, and there is one thing that I have discovered while discussing views on the bible with believers - it's that their belief, your belief in this book - it is such a beautiful thing. It is flawless and perfect and I love that whatever is said you can go back to the bible, the source and provide an answer. In the same sort of way atheists do a similar thing with science, I believe science is just another variation of religion in the modern day. And although it works by different principles, steadfast atheists will stick to it to give them an answer to everything - even though science does not provide the answer to everything (though it does have theories - which is not the TRUTH as theories are constantly changed and updated as new evidence is gathered in) For the record I am in no way an atheist (I regularly practice astral projection and have seen allot of weird **** ) and feel that being either part of an organised religion (which is fine) or an atheist (which is also fine) are not the only paths to take - though allot of people feel that there is little room in between - which there is - Agnosticism.

This may sound a bit dumb - but in your opinion, where do you think evil originated from? It was my understanding that God created everything - if that is true than god created it. Or was evil around before God? (if there was anything before the big guy appeared- though I guess time would not really be applicable in this situation!)

 

[CREG Customs]

Visually and intellectually stimulating...

If I may chime in - Feel free to PM me Nathan if you would like me to delete this.

Well first, God is eternal. We think in time as we have a beginning so we have a hard time excepting anything having always been but that had more to do with our vantage point than truth.

Evil apparently existed before man as there was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden.

The origins of that evil are not revealed to man. Is it something that simply exists outside of the will and goodness of God, like cold is the absence of heat? It seems so but is speculation.

Satan was not created evil so it is not really a correct assessment to say He created evil in a personage/being.

Now - the evils on this earth - those are from humans living and acting outside of the goodness, knowledge and presence of God. This happened after man fell/died to God spiritually in the Garden of Eden.

Satan may suggest evil ideas to man but he cannot act in the earth without mans participation.

What we know from scripture is that from the fall of man, to the fall of Satan and many other angelic beings - it seems when a free choosing agent, be it man or celestial, chooses to do something outside of the boundaries that God establishes for our own good mind you, results in evil.

So in essence, evil appears to be a consequence rather than an entity or thing.

 

[sdabbs]

I like this idea of evil being the absence of good. It s just like, in more scientific terms entropy is just the absence of order.

 

[MarfMaster]

The last few pages of this thread have indeed been an interesting read.

I particularly found this perspective on Jesus Christ refreshingly objective.

It's funny that so many think Jesus was a great guy, yet ignore the fact that He claimed to be God and said there is no way to the Father in Heaven except through Him. Either people are seeing only what they want to see, or they respect a nutcase liar.

 

[stshammgod]

I like reading this kind of stuff because it lacks the typical "finger pointing" that usually comes with such "discussions."

 

[sdabbs]

I like reading this kind of stuff because it lacks the typical "finger pointing" that usually comes with such "discussions."

very true, it is often difficult to have an objective and relaxed discussion about religion/spirituality because it is a subject that is so personal to each of us.

Also, I was afraid that bringing up religion in this forum would have been met with narrow views and general uninterest -I was happy to be proved wrong

Regarding Jesus, I read an interesting book not too long about entitled 'The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ ' which was an interesting interpretation of how it could have gone down. Of course to the Jews he is just some crazy man, but it is all a matter of perspective I guess.

 

[Wake]

I like reading this kind of stuff because it lacks the typical "finger pointing" that usually comes with such "discussions."

Agreed. Politics and Religion: I stay away from opining on both as much as I can.

 

[BigHung-Endo]

When did this thread turn into a bible study?? I thought this was about painting and not "Jesus"...............either way Jesus was a carpenter not a painter.

 

[sdabbs]

When did this thread turn into a bible study?? I thought this was about painting and not "Jesus"...............either way Jesus was a carpenter not a painter.

I spoke to soon

 

[CREG Customs]

When did this thread turn into a bible study?? I thought this was about painting and not "Jesus"...............either way Jesus was a carpenter not a painter.

Actually - He was a sculpter before he was a carpenter. Waay before.

 

[sdabbs]

Actually - He was a sculpter before he was a carpenter. Waay before.

it's true - he used to sculpt 1/6 scale figures...

 

[Bucky Underbelly]

Some people engage in small talk. Lately this thread has been engaging in Large Talk.

 

[Wake]

it's true - he used to sculpt 1/6 scale figures...

That's actually pretty good... What's Jesus' forum name so I can PM him?

 

[SilentSurfer]

Wow, my thread got very interesting all of a sudden. I like this. My compliments to all who have participated in this discussion for keeping it civil. Well done.

though allot of people feel that there is little room in between - which there is - Agnosticism.

This may sound a bit dumb - but in your opinion, where do you think evil originated from? It was my understanding that God created everything - if that is true than god created it. Or was evil around before God? (if there was anything before the big guy appeared- though I guess time would not really be applicable in this situation!)

So you are a spiritual guy. That's good. I believe there's a God shaped hole inside everybody's heart that we try to fill with whatever we can cling to to plug it up. Whether a faith in science, stars, or religion, these are symptoms that show that God made us with a need to know why we are here, where we came from, and what is the point of it all so that ultimately we would find that we are complete again when we find our Creator.

Why do Christians believe there is a narrow path to God/Heaven/the next level, when so many others thinks it's too narrow, and all paths lead to god?

John 14:6,7 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

John 3:16-20 - "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed." -John

Matthew 7:13-15 - Jesus said, "You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves."

 

[SilentSurfer]

If I may chime in - Feel free to PM me Nathan if you would like me to delete this.

I appreciate your input. It's most welcome and I agree.

This may sound a bit dumb - but in your opinion, where do you think evil originated from? It was my understanding that God created everything - if that is true than god created it. Or was evil around before God? (if there was anything before the big guy appeared- though I guess time would not really be applicable in this situation!)

Evil is not an entity that was created. It is choice. Just as love is not a feeling like infatuation or lust, but is an act of your will to do what is in the best interest of another whether you feel like it or not, evil is the conscious decision to go against what God wants, to believe you know better than He what is in your best interest. God never says "don't do that" because He doesn't want us to enjoy life. He says it to protect us from the negative consequences of those actions so that we "may have life, and have it more abundantly" (John 10:10). Believing we know better than God, as Lucifer believed, and choosing to do contrary to God's perfect wisdom is what defines EVIL. It's a bad exercise of the free will God gave us. The forbidden tree of knowledge in Eden was not there by accident. It was there to prove God gave man free will. "Don't eat of it or you'll die (consequence of action; you choose). Lucifer called God a liar, Eve and then Adam chose to believe Lucifer instead of God, and mankind cursed the world and every generation to follow by allowing Lucifer to become Prince of this world.

The last few pages of this thread have indeed been an interesting read.

I particularly found this perspective on Jesus Christ refreshingly objective.

That's why I love the Bible. It stands up to anything. If it is the Word of God, how could it not. But what it does best is leave room for our free will to choose.

I like reading this kind of stuff because it lacks the typical "finger pointing" that usually comes with such "discussions."

It's hard not to resort to that, and I'm pleased to see this hasn't devolved.