Solo: A Star Wars Story

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

In the new trilogy, if you leave the way Finn attempted to, you're a deserter. If you question authority, demanding answers before risking your life in contributing to the group, you're shirking your responsibilities as a subordinate. There is an authoritarian streak beneath the egalitarian subtext of that film. The authoritarianism is justified in the name of equality, legitimized by strong women who, we're to presume, shouldn't be undermined because it's a sign of sexism or "toxic masculinity".

:lol :rotfl

So in "Life According to Spazz" any military protocol that disallows desertion or pilots mouthing off to an admiral = anti-"toxic male" propaganda.

:lol
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

:lol :rotfl

So in "Life According to Spazz" any military protocol that disallows desertion or pilots mouthing off to an admiral = anti-"toxic male" propaganda.

:lol

Khev prepares his reading glasses for 6 paragraph response.
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Oh wow this is awful. Hadn't seen Star Wars in French since I was a kid :lol
Can't believe that's the dialogue I heard the first time I watched them, holy crap how did I become a fan? :lol
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

I'm not talking about the subtitles. I know they don't match what they are saying, I speak both languages...

I mean the dubbed dialogue, in French. It's the actual audio from the French version, and it's awful.
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

And the
Kessel Run
happens in this film. Who didn’t see that coming?

Wouldn’t you expect it? It is basically the reason the ship is known.....

Did we want a story where everything was already as it was in ANH


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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

:lol :rotfl

So in "Life According to Spazz" any military protocol that disallows desertion or pilots mouthing off to an admiral = anti-"toxic male" propaganda.

No, any military protocol that disallows desertion or demands strict adherence to authority is authoritarian. When you advocate for authoritarianism while depicting "toxic masculinity" via "mainsplaining" and macho, chest thumping bravado, you're appealing to egalitarianism. That's not "life according to me". Egalitarians often legitimize authority by appealing to inclusion. That's Political Philosophy 101. See: communism.
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

So is Boba Fett destined to be the villain in this or has there been a casting for a different character?

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

No, any military protocol that disallows desertion or demands strict adherence to authority is authoritarian. When you advocate for authoritarianism while depicting "toxic masculinity" via "mainsplaining" and macho, chest thumping bravado, you're appealing to egalitarianism. That's not "life according to me". Egalitarians often legitimize authority by appealing to inclusion. That's Political Philosophy 101. See: communism.

Holdo: "He's a real troublemaker."

Leia: "Yes he is."

Holdo: "I like him."

Leia. "Me too."

So apparently TLJ's "#metoo" movement is pro-flyboy in the end. So much for Holdo being KK's "voice" against all of those horrible males.
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Too much money to be made from capitalizing on the "I remember that!" crowd not to have Fett as the primary villain, I'm afraid.

The film doesn't speak very highly of feminism as a workable ideology. It ends displaying the need for co-operation of both genders.
I think the biggest issue is that, despite what defenders and detractors might both prefer, it doesn't seem like the writers had a clear direction or philosophy underlining this film at all. The best example is Kylo's wacky and indecipherable character arc. Yes, there were feminist undertones. At times. There was also a clear anti-capitalist message. But they seem somewhat isolated and not necessarily connected to other elements of the film. In the case of Poe, I think the idea was more to have this character mature and develop than to try and force-feed a political agenda down people's throats. But hey, that's just my view. Anyone can find support or opposition to whatever they want if they look hard enough. But the clearer picture, to me, is of a film that lacked a genuine identity and narrative logic in many respects. On the one hand, that benefits a film in that fans can find whatever they liked and latch onto it as connected to a larger whole. On the other hand, we can have those who dislike it finding strands that connect every piece to some larger, terrible agenda. I say the truth, as with many things, is somewhere in-between. Personally, I choose not to focus too much on the politicized stuff and enjoy the parts of the film that did work for what they were. But to each her (!) own.

No, any military protocol that disallows desertion or demands strict adherence to authority is authoritarian. When you advocate for authoritarianism while depicting "toxic masculinity" via "mainsplaining" and macho, chest thumping bravado, you're appealing to egalitarianism. That's not "life according to me". Egalitarians often legitimize authority by appealing to inclusion. That's Political Philosophy 101. See: communism.
You wouldn't have a very effective military if you allow for desertion and let subordinates question authority whenever they chose to. Dehumanization is another important part of military effectiveness. And in that sense, maybe Leia and Dern were right to ignore and emasculate Poe!

In terms of Star Wars, again, I think you have different approaches and philosophies (such as they are), with the original films showing the rebels to be a loose coalition of those opposing the Empire, without much structure and organization. That would be dangerous in the real world, as you wouldn't want someone who has access to training locations, strategies, etc., just flying off and doing their own thing whenever they chose to. But it was a more optimistic view of things, where Leia and the leadership apparently trusted Luke, Han, etc., didn't fear that they may give away info. from being tortured, and weren't paranoid.

The new films have a more realistic view of how rebels get along and survive. If a member of ISIS, or the IRA in the '70s, or Che Guevara's revolutionaries wanted to just get up and leave, they couldn't really do that. There is a security consideration, there is also consideration for the precedent it would set, and the impact it would have on group cohesion.
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Holdo: "He's a real troublemaker."

Leia: "Yes he is."

Holdo: "I like him."

Leia. "Me too."

So apparently TLJ's "#metoo" movement is pro-flyboy in the end. So much for Holdo being KK's "voice" against all of those horrible males.

You're equivocating. You don't think the mutiny was a feminist critique of toxic masculinity? Even feminists disagree with you. There are countless articles on this. Here's a couple:

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/269657/toxic-masculinity-is-the-true-villain-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi

https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/star-wars-last-jedi-unexpected-examination-toxic-masculinity-spoilers-115626888.html
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Just because self-identified feminists and, er, anti-feminists (?) think X doesn't mean any of them are right. White supremacists and leftists might both agree that the protest of Confederate monuments are led by racists and antisemites. But other reasonable people may say that's a someone slanted and myopic perspective.
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

You wouldn't have a very effective military if you allow for desertion and let subordinates question authority whenever they chose to. Dehumanization is another important part of military effectiveness. And in that sense, maybe Leia and Dern were right to ignore and emasculate Poe!

There are three issues here. The first, is whether or not adherence to authority was being justified via egalitarianism. Was there a subtext that Poe undermined Holdo's authority because he demands machismo from those he obeys? I think so, and it sounds like you agree.

The second issue, is whether or not people should obey authority. For instance, when at war is there a practical reason that might lead one to obey authority out of necessity? Sure. I'm not an idealist; you can do as you please. However, to suggest that one has a moral obligation, or that justice demands that we obey authority is a false statement. There's no obligation to do anything, ever.

The third issue, is whether or not you could have a successful organized and militarized struggle without hierarchy. I don't know. The only way to find out would be to engage in social experimentation, attempting to falsify whether or not people need authority to organize themselves in combat, or elsewhere. I'm all for experimentation.
 
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Just because self-identified feminists and, er, anti-feminists (?) think X doesn't mean any of them are right. White supremacists and leftists might both agree that the protest of Confederate monuments are led by racists and antisemites. But other reasonable people may say that's a someone slanted and myopic perspective.

That's not the point. You can't analyze the subtext of fiction without being familiar with the underlying normative beliefs. If you know nothing about socialism, you're not going to watch a socialist movie and say, "Aha! That there is a movie advocating socialist beliefs." You need familiarity to see it. Feminists who are obviously familiar with their own feminism, see it within the subtext of the film. Then they write articles, explaining to you why they see it. Then I post links to those articles, not so you'll be persuaded because they're experts, but so you'll actually read the articles and see for yourself why it's a feminist movie! :lol
 
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