Solo: A Star Wars Story

[jye4ever]

I just can't take your posts seriously TaliBane since you endlessly flip flop on what helps or hinders the franchise based on your own personal opinion of any given film. For instance if Kennedy does something unprecedented and oversees three straight years of #1 films then it's "riding George's coattails, anyone can do it" (when he himself did not) but then when Solo tanks suddenly riding George's coattails goes out the window and it's *all her fault."

Meh. Enjoy the endless spin on any and all facts to whatever degree you feel is necessary to prove your opinion as "correct." There are too many people to chat with who both love this film as well as those who either dislike it rationally or dislike it irrationally yet are still capable of owning their own BS once in a while for me to waste my time with any more of these back and forths. Am I the most rational fan when it comes to SW? Heck no. But I'm at least self-aware enough to recognize the fact that I'm not fooling anybody into thinking otherwise.



I will say that your misgivings are certainly valid if you feel like they took Luke to a dark place unbecoming of his character but the way I see it is that with Vader he always saw the good in him hence the reason why he never gave up until the end whereas with Ben Solo Luke (and Leia as well) ultimately realized that they desperately *wanted* there to be good in him but had to come to terms with the fact that there just wasn't any. The throne room scenes of ROTJ and TLJ parallel each other in many ways accept for one key area: When the apprentice (Vader) killed the master (Emperor) in ROTJ he immediately turned good without the pervasive evil influence in his life whereas in TLJ the apprentice killed the master and stayed evil...because his heart was darkened by his own will apart from his master. That's simplifying Vader and Kylo's character a bit but hopefully you get the jist of where I'm coming from.

Either way, agree to disagree bla bla bla and .

Bingo!

You can’t take their complaints seriously because their agenda against her is all built on a Lose/Lose situation for her.

You can tell who they are they won’t say one positive thing about her no matter what.

Box office success nope not of her doing she’s just a secretary.

RO/Solo are good nope she had nothing to do with it.

But everything they see as being bad was definately just because of her.

It’s sad really.

I never saw the Force as something spiritual but simply "magical". It's why I also never considered "Star Wars" as pure science fiction but more of a fantasy story set in "galaxy far, far away".

The introduction of Midichlorians wiped out the magical aspect of the Force and made it sound more like an infection. "My father has it. I have it. My sister has it..." took on a new meaning...

There really was no reason to go there except perhaps that GL requiring a blood test show that Little Ani was more powerful than the mighty Yoda.

GL tends to make the galaxy a small place, more of a neighborhood, where everyone is linked and everything needs to be defined. The PT was guilty of that big-time. While I'm not a fan of the ST, it has at least (so far) kept from following the same formula.

Magical or Spiritual > Infection

Blood test.....sigh

 

[Wor-Gar]

I never saw the Force as something spiritual but simply "magical". It's why I also never considered "Star Wars" as pure science fiction but more of a fantasy story set in "galaxy far, far away". .

Better way to look at it. Eliminates problems with separation of church and state.

 

[screamingmetal]

I will say that your misgivings are certainly valid if you feel like they took Luke to a dark place unbecoming of his character but the way I see it is that with Vader he always saw the good in him hence the reason why he never gave up until the end whereas with Ben Solo Luke (and Leia as well) ultimately realized that they desperately *wanted* there to be good in him but had to come to terms with the fact that there just wasn't any. The throne room scenes of ROTJ and TLJ parallel each other in many ways accept for one key area: When the apprentice (Vader) killed the master (Emperor) in ROTJ he immediately turned good without the pervasive evil influence in his life whereas in TLJ the apprentice killed the master and stayed evil...because his heart was darkened by his own will apart from his master. That's simplifying Vader and Kylo's character a bit but hopefully you get the jist of where I'm coming from.

Either way, agree to disagree bla bla bla and .

Interesting take on Luke & Kylo, I'll take it into consideration when I eventually see TLJ again. But for me, that dark turn in Luke is also the fact that he turned his back on the Rebellion, rebuilding the Jedi order, and his friend Han and his sister Leia when they were struggling without him. Leia seemed to want to find Luke for help in TFA, I still feel there was a whole lot wrong with Luke.

 

[screamingmetal]

I never saw the Force as something spiritual but simply "magical". It's why I also never considered "Star Wars" as pure science fiction but more of a fantasy story set in "galaxy far, far away".

The introduction of Midichlorians wiped out the magical aspect of the Force and made it sound more like an infection. "My father has it. I have it. My sister has it..." took on a new meaning...

There really was no reason to go there except perhaps that GL requiring a blood test show that Little Ani was more powerful than the mighty Yoda.

GL tends to make the galaxy a small place, more of a neighborhood, where everyone is linked and everything needs to be defined. The PT was guilty of that big-time. While I'm not a fan of the ST, it has at least (so far) kept from following the same formula.

Magical and spiritual can be seen as sort of the same thing. Of the many conversations about the subject that's the one take away I've had is that people don't like how it does away with the spiritual nature of the force. Never thought of Medichlorians as an infection, that's the first time I've heard of it seen that way. I'll have to think more about it on those terms. Thanks for the insight.

I think it's more than just a way to explain Anakin's power levels, Qui-Gon could've just sensed his power with the Force and confirmed it with the Jedi council, no need for a blood test. I think George was taking the nature of the Force to someplace else, especially now that he's talking about the Whills.

I do hate the small universe thing in any story not just SW. I wish C3P0, R2, Boba Fett, and Chewbacca weren't brought into the Prequels. Then again in the ST, how did Rey, Fin, and BB8 manage to run into the Falcon and then Han and Chewie?

 

[Khev]

Magical or Spiritual > Infection

Blood test.....sigh

The thing with the dumb midichlorians is that I actually thought they were cool when Qui-Gon took Anakin's blood sample and then Obi-Wan monitored it on that machine (though why the hell would Padme have a midichlorian counter in her ship now that I think about it, lol) because that reminded me so much of the psychic graph that showed Tetsuo's power level in AKIRA:

AKIRA is one of my favorite stories of all time and while certain individuals in that film have scientifically measurable power levels they still never explain or define just *where* those powers come from aside from the assumption that the individuals are experiencing a massive genetic leap of psychic evolution. And it would have been fine if TPM had just mentioned midichlorians as the way they measure Force ability or sensitivity but then they had to go and ruin it by later having Qui-Gon kneel down and explain in great detail just what midichlorians are and what they do.

My love for all the funky **** in AKIRA is also why I can accept Darth Maul using the Force to pull machinery out of the walls as he fell to fuse with his body and make creepy appendages:

Interesting take on Luke & Kylo, I'll take it into consideration when I eventually see TLJ again. But for me, that dark turn in Luke is also the fact that he turned his back on the Rebellion, rebuilding the Jedi order, and his friend Han and his sister Leia when they were struggling without him. Leia seemed to want to find Luke for help in TFA, I still feel there was a whole lot wrong with Luke.

First of all for the respectful reply and then second I guess that for me the flaw with Luke was that he had grown to believe that the Jedi were unworthy care-takers of the Force and were just as much to blame for the galaxy's problems as the Sith. He did have a level of hubris as the greatest Jedi Master in the galaxy but when he lost his students he lost all of that except for the one remaining bit of hubris that his failure was so profound that nothing in the galaxy could ever off-set it. He was at the eye of that particular emotional storm and couldn't see his way out of it without Yoda's help in basically laughing off his failures and telling him that it's okay. I guess I see that Luke went to a dark place that possibly hits too close to home for many people who just want to escape (since probably all of us are haunted by past mistakes in some way) but seeing him sink so low just made him more relatable to me and watching him rise above it made him all the more inspiring.

I *do* think that in Luke's regard that they did indeed keep things simple: "After a success you might be in danger of thinking too highly of yourself which could lead to a fall but that doesn't have to be the end of your journey." Maybe a bit "heavy" for SW (though Rocky III had basically the same theme, lol) but ESB was heavy as hell for me as a 6 year old so it all works for me. Now with that said I do wish that Johnson had handled some of the fine details differently (like having Luke try to fly to Crait in person but his X-Wing would work forcing him to project himself and a few other things like that) but overall I loved what they were going for and how it was executed (minus the aforementioned nitpicks.)

 

[crows]

What if you get a blood transfusion from a jedi?
Do the midichlorians transfer over? Do U become a jedi?

 

[Khev]

What if you get a blood transfusion from a jedi?
Do the midichlorians transfer over? Do U become a jedi?

Those are the types of questions you have to answer when you go out of your way to stupidly have a character explain that midichlorians are life-forms living in your cells that talk to the Force. Should have just said "wow Anakin's midichlorian count is 20,000" THE END and never mention them again (assuming it was necessary to have measurable power levels discussed at all of course.)

 

[crows]

Its funny because this could easily lead to sith vampires
Which could actually be awesome if done right.

Imagine an evil sith lord needing more midichlorians to become more powerful and he goes around hunting jedi and killing them.
Dracula and the emperor combined.

 

[Prime Clone]

What if you get a blood transfusion from a jedi?
Do the midichlorians transfer over? Do U become a jedi?

Ask Darth Plagueis!

 

[screamingmetal]

My love for all the funky **** in AKIRA is also why I can accept Darth Maul using the Force to pull machinery out of the walls as he fell to fuse with his body and make creepy appendages:
---
First of all for the respectful reply and then second I guess that for me the flaw with Luke was that he had grown to believe that the Jedi were unworthy care-takers of the Force and were just as much to blame for the galaxy's problems as the Sith. He did have a level of hubris as the greatest Jedi Master in the galaxy but when he lost his students he lost all of that except for the one remaining bit of hubris that his failure was so profound that nothing in the galaxy could ever off-set it. He was at the eye of that particular emotional storm and couldn't see his way out of it without Yoda's help in basically laughing off his failures and telling him that it's okay. I guess I see that Luke went to a dark place that possibly hits too close to home for many people who just want to escape (since probably all of us are haunted by past mistakes in some way) but seeing him sink so low just made him more relatable to me and watching him rise above it made him all the more inspiring.

I *do* think that in Luke's regard that they did indeed keep things simple: "After a success you might be in danger of thinking too highly of yourself which could lead to a fall but that doesn't have to be the end of your journey." Maybe a bit "heavy" for SW (though Rocky III had basically the same theme, lol) but ESB was heavy as hell for me as a 6 year old so it all works for me. Now with that said I do wish that Johnson had handled some of the fine details differently (like having Luke try to fly to Crait in person but his X-Wing would work forcing him to project himself) but overall I loved what they were going for and how it was executed (minus the aforementioned nitpicks.)

Tetsuo was an uncontrollable powerhouse growing exponentially, Maul was never that powerful, the two are just on totally different levels. I still don't like the mech legs with that explanation.

I didn't dislike making the Jedi Order look bad, I kind of feel they came off in a bad light in the prequels. Besides, the past is the past, with the Jedi all but wiped out, Luke could've remade the Jedi Order however he saw fit and fix what was wrong with it with both Obi-Wan and Yoda guiding him. I wish that was the story we were told and that perhaps Luke went into hiding to guard secret knowledge that Snoke and Kylo were after and that Luke felt he could not face them on his own, that's where I saw it going in TFA. Personally, I never saw Luke as being hubristic but completely virtuous and zen in ROTJ, he almost lost it in the throne room duel, but in the end he proved to be better and conquered his Dark Side. That's the end of Luke's story for me.

 

[screamingmetal]

Its funny because this could easily lead to sith vampires
Which could actually be awesome if done right.

Imagine an evil sith lord needing more midichlorians to become more powerful and he goes around hunting jedi and killing them.
Dracula and the emperor combined.

I like it, sounds like fun, why not?

 

[Khev]

Tetsuo was an uncontrollable powerhouse growing exponentially, Maul was never that powerful, the two are just on totally different levels. I still don't like the mech legs with that explanation.

I didn't dislike making the Jedi Order look bad, I kind of feel they came off in a bad light in the prequels. Besides, the past is the past, with the Jedi all but wiped out, Luke could've remade the Jedi Order however he saw fit and fix what was wrong with it with both Obi-Wan and Yoda guiding him. I wish that was the story we were told and that perhaps Luke went into hiding to guard secret knowledge that Snoke and Kylo were after and that Luke felt he could not face them on his own, that's where I saw it going in TFA. Personally, I never saw Luke as being hubristic but completely virtuous and zen in ROTJ, he almost lost it in the throne room duel, but in the end he proved to be better and conquered his Dark Side. That's the end of Luke's story for me.

That's fine. I don't think I'll be wholly dogmatic when it comes to SW canon (lol at the way we or rather I talk in these threads) with regard to accepting/rejecting the ST. Same with TPM. On some levels I like Solo/RO/OT as kind of a "perfect" Saga with really nothing subpar save for the parts where ROTJ faltered. But part of me also likes the good parts of TPM and the ST enough to want to just include them into the fold as well. The solution as I see it? Just allow for both Sagas or head-canons if you will.

Depending on my mood I can easily lean toward your take that it all just ends at ROTJ. But other days it's fun to have the gang all returning in the ST and then Solo referencing TPM. Canon will probably always be in motion but I'm just glad that I can truly enjoy up to 8 of the 10 SW films depending on what I'm in the mood for.

And with regard to the Force I kind of like that there's no "set" explanation for it. SW/ESB it's just a power that anyone can learn with proper training and practice. ROTJ kind of made it a family thing but didn't explain why. The PT says it's all about midichlorians and the ST says it's all about one side rising to power causing an "awakening" in the other side. It's all so muddy that I don't feel the need to get worked up about any of it. As a concept the various films contradict themselves several times over. So the way I see it no one in the Saga truly has a clue as to how it works other than it just being an energy field that surrounds and binds everything which just takes us back to Obi-Wan's description of it in good ol' ANH.

 

[jye4ever]

Ok fine if it’s in their blood can an antidote be given to suppress their powers?

Since Jabba and Wato were immune to the force can their blood then be used to create a vaccine against it?

 

[crows]

Ok fine if it’s in their blood can an antidote be given to suppress their powers?

Since Jabba and Wato were immune to the force can their blood then be used to create a vaccine against it?

Damn jye you just blew my mind...

This writes itself

 

[Khev]

And then like that one guy in Underworld who had the blood of both he'll be able to use the Force against others while simultaneously being immune to lightning, mind control, etc.

 

[crows]

And then like that one guy in Underworld who had the blood of both he'll be able to use the Force against others while simultaneously being immune to lightning, mind control, etc.

he could use both Jedi powers and sith powers. omg.....

THIS IS BETTER THAN WHAT WE GOT WITH DISNEY!!!!!!!!

 

[Prime Clone]

Since Jabba and Wato were immune to the force can their blood then be used to create a vaccine against it?

Interesting, it could be because they’re not “weak-minded” or, since Watto says it’s because he’s a Toydarian, maybe he has fewer midichlorians to manipulate (or some other biological signal jammer).

In the EU Thrawn’s pet lizards created Force black spots. Maybe they had no midichlorians?

 

[jye4ever]

And then like that one guy in Underworld who had the blood of both he'll be able to use the Force against others while simultaneously being immune to lightning, mind control, etc.

And this is why GL needs to concentrate on his retirement lol

he could use both Jedi powers and sith powers. omg.....

THIS IS BETTER THAN WHAT WE GOT WITH DISNEY!!!!!!!!

No

Thank

You

Interesting, it could be because they’re not “weak-minded” or, since Watto says it’s because he’s a Toydarian, maybe he has fewer midichlorians to manipulate (or some other biological signal jammer).

In the EU Thrawn’s pet lizards created Force black spots. Maybe they had no midichlorians?

That all just sounds so........horrible lol

Are force ghosts just energy image projections then but Ii the Jedi is dead where are his midichlorians or do they just manipulate any free midichlorians?

 

[ajp4mgs]

I mentioned how massively different the film distribution business was between 2002 and 2016, giving RO a massive advantage over a film from 15 years earlier? I mean do we ignore the fact that AOTC opened on ONE THOUSAND less screens than RO did?

As to the point about the changes in domestic film distribution: are you suggesting that back in 2002, the smaller number of theaters/screens playing AOTC (versus modern-day SW releases) led to a significant number of people who didn't have reasonable access to watch the film? And that's why its domestic box office haul wasn't significantly higher?

I'd like to understand what you're getting at with the theater distribution models having changed. Are you claiming that there's been increased ticket sales per theater, as opposed to diluted sales in each one (what I'd actually expect with multiple theaters in the same markets)? If so, why have the total number of movie tickets sold in the US been going down overall as the number of theaters showing each movie has presumably been going up?

The chart below is a screen-print from boxofficemojo. It is data for total yearly movie box office figures domestically. Note the number of tickets sold being down since 2005 (and since 2002, trust me - I just ran out of room on my screen). More theaters/screens, but fewer tickets sold. How does this make sense with your AOTC rationale? Am I reading the data wrong? Maybe I just missed your logic/explanation from previous threads or posts; forgive me. What I'm seeing is revenue going up as ticket prices rise due to inflation. But the actual number of tickets sold isn't increasing. So, what am I missing?



My experience has been that multiple local theaters showing the same film just means I have more choices as to which one to go to. The others I don't choose become redundant and unnecessary. So, assuming that most people had access to a theater showing any of the SW films, and that I'm interpreting the actual data about cinema trends correctly, then now it would just be a matter of comparing how many butts were in the seats. As I want to eliminate inflation as a factor, I'll reference purely the number of tickets sold. According to boxofficemojo, here's the number of tickets sold for the SW films:

ANH: no ticket sales data available
ESB: 78+ million tickets sold
ROTJ: 80+ million
TPM: 84+ million
AOTC: 52+ million
ROTS: 59+ million
TFA: 108+ million
TLJ: 67+ million

So, again, you're saying AOTC having the lowest ticket sales in this franchise has something to do with access? Even though the broader cinema sales figures would suggest no support for that? It wasn't just that AOTC was too much of a crapfest following the disappointment of TPM?

 

[Prime Clone]

First there was the grammatical error in the TLJ opening crawl (Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters stand), now the Solo opening is bugging me.

It says it was a "LAWLESS" time. Sure, there were underworld crime gangs operating, but with the Empire asserting its authority I'd hardly call it lawless - more like martial law.