Star Trek: Picard

[MyenShi]

Love that scene. I mean, who doesn't love that whole episode. I'm not even the biggest TOS fan and it's still incredible how they pulled it off.

But yeah, I don't know what those aliens were supposed to be in Discovery but they certainly weren't Klingons...

 

[a-dev]

Love that scene. I mean, who doesn't love that whole episode. I'm not even the biggest TOS fan and it's still incredible how they pulled it off.

But yeah, I don't know what those aliens were supposed to be in Discovery but they certainly weren't Klingons...

That DS9 episode is why I could never take to Enterprise because it truly cemented actual TOS as the canon backdrop for TNG and DS9. Then along came Enterprise claiming to pre-date TOS and I couldn't help but think 'nope, none of this bears any resemblance to anything that could possibly pre-date Star Trek TOS''. Not the technology, not the ship design, not the ship interior, not the uniforms, nothing.

 

[MyenShi]

That DS9 episode is why I could never take to Enterprise because it truly cemented actual TOS as the canon backdrop for TNG and DS9. Then along came Enterprise claiming to pre-date TOS and I couldn't help but think 'nope, none of this bears any resemblance to anything that could possibly pre-date Star Trek TOS''. Not the technology, not the ship design, not the ship interior, not the uniforms, nothing.

It's kind of ironic when you think about it now because ENT even cemented the TOS era aesthetic with "In a Mirror, Darkly" which was pretty brilliant.

I think Enterprise is alright; better now compared to how other shows went. I agree that some things did feel anachronistic, though I think they also tried somewhat though rather inconsistently.

As much as I like SNW, the liberties it continues to take with the TOS aesthetic that DIS completely upended are still difficult to reconcile. And I'm saying that as someone who didn't grow up with TOS and doesn't have a nostalgic attachment for it. Still feels wrong to not even try to better incorporate the look and feel of TOS into shows set in the same era.

DIS just feels like it belongs more in the Kelvin timeline than Prime.

 

[Skyroes]

Other than how unrealistically dark the ships are, that's my only real complaint. F-bombs are specifically not Star Trek. Yes I'm underlining that. It's perhaps also 'unrealistic' - I mean, how do you phase out curse words in language unless you run some sort of authoritarian society with constant monitoring, informants and severe punishment for violations of the verbal morality statute - which I don't think happened in the universe of Trek - but it's simply the case that cursing is not done in Star Trek's portrayal of the future. Star Trek IV made a point of emphasizing this when they showed how taken aback the Enterprise crew were when they travelled back to 1984. I suppose it could be argued that somewhere along the line people took it up again for the heck of it but it just doesn't feel right for Star Trek, at least not the F word

Spoiler

and certainly not Jean Luc Picard saying it of all people.

I’m with you, apparently it was an improv that Patrick Stewart made, it wasn’t initially part of the scene. There’s one more use later in the season. I have no issue with cruising, but in Trek it doesn’t sit well. Discovery used it way too often and the dialogue was so vacuous.

One of the things I like about Berman is that he followed Roddenberry’s vision and format of how he wanted things done to the letter, and after his passing we had one successful spinoff after another of great television, the writing and storytelling was impeccable, they didn’t need to rely on cheap profanities to add dramatic effect.

Fortunately for Season 3 of Picard, the writing is good enough to overlook it for the most part.

 

[Skyroes]

I understand. But Matalas is not the sole reason Picard Season 3 is better. Just saying.

Like you, I have many issues with P+ Star Trek. Although I am okay with SNW and love LD, everything else has just not been good for a variety of reasons that mostly flow top down.

Benefit of ducking out at least is that if something does turn out to be good, you can always come back and watch it. I understand your pessimism, but hopefully there are better shows in the future. We'll just have to see what happens.

Paramount+ is apparently losing money, and they’re looking to make spending cuts in their steaming content for 2024.

They need to ditch Kurtzman’s Starfleet Academy and Section 31 ideas and stick to a new series continuing on in the 25th century post Picard. If they have any sense, they’ll have Matalas keep the keys or someone else who understands the franchise such as Manny Coto run things.

https://trekmovie.com/2023/03/01/th...-paramount-announces-streaming-spending-cuts/

 

[Kebron]

There’s been lots of talk and hints of a spin off show from Picard Season 3. Matalas said he even set it up.

Matalas’s next project is Witch Mountain for Disney+. If we are lucky with how Picard Season 3 is doing maybe we can get him back once he’s done over at the Mouse House.

I don’t mind the cussing as long as it’s not overused. I do find it interesting everyone focusing on the Fbomb, and not the Dips**t from Chicago line. Granted when Picard used it I found it funny and that Shaw acknowledged he threw his own line back at him made it even better.

 

[Skyroes]

I wouldn't necessarily say that. They've learned some valuable lessons and made some changes that they hopefully stick with moving forward, regardless of whoever they choose as showrunners for future projects.

I'm sure Matalas has had positive influence but he was also co-showrunner of Picard Season 2 and we know how that went. As good as Season 3 has been, his is not the last word in good Trek. SNW and LD have different creatives and those are both strong in their own ways. Hopefully they've found additional qualified people for whatever comes next.

And Matalas did make one decision that I'm not a huge fan of personally; his insistence on the appearance of the Titan-A. I have problems with the Neo Constitution conceptually even though it's not the worst. But there are some glaring issues like the scaling, weaponry, and tech that bothers the part of me that loves how starships are designed.

The original Titan being a Luna class is drastically different in design vs. the Titan-A so it’s a tough sell on how it’s actually a refit. I don’t mind the look of the ship personally.

The bigger issue ship wise I have is it’s been stated that the Enterprise E is not in the series which is a lost opportunity for what is being hailed as the TNG send off. I would think it would be an essential component.

I’m still hopeful for seeing the D’s saucer in the fleet museum with a new star drive.

 

[MyenShi]

The original Titan being a Luna class is drastically different in design vs. the Titan-A so it’s a tough sell on how it’s actually a refit. I don’t mind the look of the ship personally.

The bigger issue ship wise I have is it’s been stated that the Enterprise E is not in the series which is a lost opportunity for what is being hailed as the TNG send off. I would think it would be an essential component.

I’m still hopeful for seeing the D’s saucer in the fleet museum with a new star drive.

This was addressed recently. I’m not a huge fan of the concept. The Luna class isn’t a favorite of mine but the Titan deserves better than this.

They’re basically saying because the Constitution III class Titan-A uses parts from the Luna class Titan, it’s a refit.

Really feels like stretching logic to put a round peg in a square hole. That’s not what a refit is in established Trek lore and they’ve misused the word twice now. This was all further complicated by the Connie III looking so similar to the Shangri-La class and people being made to feel the Titan-A is some kind of refit of that despite the massive scale differences. Blass just refuted only yesterday.

It’s all just so unnecessarily convoluted and weird. And I hate when they just scale up an existing design and illogically make it bigger like the Xyston from Star Wars TROS.

Matalas just really wanted his classic looking ship in the show and he’s said as much. But honestly I think the Excelsior II class would’ve been the better choice which does a far better job bringing a classic design into this era.

And it has been hinted multiple times an Enterprise will make an appearance, other than the F that is. You might get your wish.

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

I agree, certainly the most reminiscent episode we’ve seen that brings back that Trek feel. I thoroughly enjoyed it though I could’ve done without the F-Bomb, just feels unnecessary after it being non-existent from TOS to ENT.

Great acting in some very fulfilling scenes. The exchange between Riker and Picard in the “This is the end, my friend” scene was perfect. This is Frakes at his best and showed realistic vulnerabilities of the character post-loss that never truly gets resolved in life.

I think most of us predicted the Shaw-Wolf 359 connection, even though it was already done before, it was another well acted and believable scene that reflects what happens in the real world (lasting hostility post conflict). I loved the dig Shaw made about the Jurati-Borg and how absurd it was.

The final few moments in the episode has the entire cast shining on the bridge, Picard is the Picard we know, using his experience to navigate them out of the asteroid field, leaving the audience with a “feel good” moment, Riker flinging the asteroid as they escape topped off the action sequence nicely. The birth of the alien life forms and that musical score, just a great TNG-like awing moment.

The final flashback to the bar and the reveal that Jack was there, again another well written and fulfilling scene.

The episode really comes full circle at the end. I’ve never seen a series go from mediocre, to unwatchable to quality like this. I think this episode also benefited from not cutting back and forth with the Raffi story, I’m glad we got a dedicated hour to this storyline. I hope the momentum from this episode continues as they’ve set the bar now.

It’s unfortunate Terry Matalas has stated several times since the premiere that there are no plans for him to show run Trek beyond this.

I delayed reading any thread updates this week, because I wanted to go in cold, and I only finished watching this 15 minutes ago.

I mostly agree with everyone's observations/opinions, but quoting THIS one as it sums everything up nicely for me.

I too didn't like the F-bomb - seemed unnecessary and totally out-of character for Picard.

The only real issue I'm having with the series so far is the way Riker is being portrayed as a bit of an impulsive finger-pointer - in HIS position, with so many years of experience, I don't see why he would act that way - particularly to his friend.

My fave line - "I think we should boldly get the hell out of here" - I laughed so loud the neighbours must have wondered what was going on

Despite me being uncomfortable with aspects of Riker's characterisation, I'm loving the heck out of this.

So very very good

.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I understand. But Matalas is not the sole reason Picard Season 3 is better. Just saying.

Like you, I have many issues with P+ Star Trek. Although I am okay with SNW and love LD, everything else has just not been good for a variety of reasons that mostly flow top down.

Benefit of ducking out at least is that if something does turn out to be good, you can always come back and watch it. I understand your pessimism, but hopefully there are better shows in the future. We'll just have to see what happens.

Well for me, I'm just enjoying the farewell concert from my favourite band. I'm not interested in what the record label makes next.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I swear if they do a Star Trek 6 sign off at the end I will be in tears

 

[MyenShi]

Well for me, I'm just enjoying the farewell concert from my favourite band. I'm not interested in what the record label makes next.

Fair enough. And I get it. It’s disappointing knowing that the Star Trek of the TOS through TNG/DS9/VOY era is not coming back.

Glimmers of it; maybe more in the future. But not completely. Just doesn’t match the kind of content they want for a streaming platform.

I think there can still be new that’s good. But I understand where you’re coming from.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Fair enough. And I get it. It’s disappointing knowing that the Star Trek of the TOS through TNG/DS9/VOY era is not coming back.

Glimmers of it; maybe more in the future. But not completely. Just doesn’t match the kind of content they want for a streaming platform.

I think there can still be new that’s good. But I understand where you’re coming from.

Yeah that era of Trek is never coming back. The new stuff just isn't Star Trek to me.
But then, old guys like me aren't the audience anymore. Search for Spock was the first Trek movie I saw in theatres and I've been there for every new Trek show and movie since.
I tried nuTrek but it just isn't for me.

 

[MyenShi]

Yeah that era of Trek is never coming back. The new stuff just isn't Star Trek to me.
But then, old guys like me aren't the audience anymore. Search for Spock was the first Trek movie I saw in theatres and I've been there for every new Trek show and movie since.
I tried nuTrek but it just isn't for me.

I’m of a younger generation of Star Trek fans but most of it just isn’t for me either.

Sometimes it makes me wonder who it’s actually for.

Only exception is Lower Decks because a lot of is a love letter to what my preferred side of Star Trek is; the nerdy technobabble heavy sci-fi of the late TNG/DS9/VOY era mixed with the core positivity and optimism that Star Trek should represent.

 

[Skyroes]

This was addressed recently. I’m not a huge fan of the concept. The Luna class isn’t a favorite of mine but the Titan deserves better than this.

View attachment 627468

They’re basically saying because the Constitution III class Titan-A uses parts from the Luna class Titan, it’s a refit.

Really feels like stretching logic to put a round peg in a square hole. That’s not what a refit is in established Trek lore and they’ve misused the word twice now. This was all further complicated by the Connie III looking so similar to the Shangri-La class and people being made to feel the Titan-A is some kind of refit of that despite the massive scale differences. Blass just refuted only yesterday.

It’s all just so unnecessarily convoluted and weird. And I hate when they just scale up an existing design and illogically make it bigger like the Xyston from Star Wars TROS.

Matalas just really wanted his classic looking ship in the show and he’s said as much. But honestly I think the Excelsior II class would’ve been the better choice which does a far better job bringing a classic design into this era.

View attachment 627469

And it has been hinted multiple times an Enterprise will make an appearance, other than the F that is. You might get your wish.

Good post, it had me reading more into the background of the design. I didn’t realize the ship was that large. Since the reveal of the ship, I thought the incorporation of both phaser strips and ball turrets was an interesting choice.

https://dapsmagic.com/2023/02/the-uss-titan-a-how-this-star-trek-picard-ship-was-created/

Yeah that era of Trek is never coming back. The new stuff just isn't Star Trek to me.
But then, old guys like me aren't the audience anymore. Search for Spock was the first Trek movie I saw in theatres and I've been there for every new Trek show and movie since.
I tried nuTrek but it just isn't for me.

Lightning rarely strikes twice but we’ll have to see what happens post Picard. If this is a resounding success, it may change the direction on how they handle the franchise. The cancellation of Discovery could be a sign of that.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If Kurtzman stays and Matalas leaves, it won't be great. SNW is very good though.

The current season of Picard is so well done, it's as though JJ Abrams turned the sequel trilogy around with episode 9.

 

[Skyroes]

There’s been lots of talk and hints of a spin off show from Picard Season 3. Matalas said he even set it up.

Matalas’s next project is Witch Mountain for Disney+. If we are lucky with how Picard Season 3 is doing maybe we can get him back once he’s done over at the Mouse House.

I don’t mind the cussing as long as it’s not overused. I do find it interesting everyone focusing on the Fbomb, and not the Dips**t from Chicago line. Granted when Picard used it I found it funny and that Shaw acknowledged he threw his own line back at him made it even better.

I found that funny as well, I mean when it’s used in a way that is witty, it can work. I think everyone found that infamous Data scene in Generations pretty comical too as anyone with any sense of emotion would be thinking the same thing.

I heard the same thing about the last episode leaving the door open for a spin-off. Looking forward to seeing hold that unfolds.

If Kurtzman stays and Matalas leaves, it won't be great. SNW is very good though.

The current season of Picard is so well done, it's as though JJ Abrams turned the sequel trilogy around with episode 9.

For sure, I was definitely feeling that last season.

 

[Skyroes]

Whoa! Looks like we’re in for another great episode.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Yep can't wait. The season is 4 for 4 so far. Time to bring in Geordi and Lore.

 

[Kebron]

Yep can't wait. The season is 4 for 4 so far. Time to bring in Geordi and Lore.

Yeah about time for some reveals.

I suspect the Changelings are red herrings for the true villain.
I also think Lore is what the real target stolen from Daystrom was. Probably Moriarty too.