Star Wars: Ahsoka

[xipotec]

the dark side is not some sort of mind control virus. It is simply the shortcut, the easy way out.

Yoda's warning was not that once you dip your toes in the dark side it will haunt you and eventually you will turn, it is that once you compromise and take the easy route you will be tempted to do so again because that is human (and alien) nature.

Someone who has killed will find killing again easier than a first timer. Someone who has resorted to violence in the past to deal with problems will likely do so again. It doesn't mean they cannot change, some very violent people can be re-formed, it just takes effort to avoid temptation to take negative actions.

Anakin gave in the dark to slay the tuskens in anger as the easy way to deal with them (rather than say, try to get authorities involved or some other non violent action) but continued on to be a "good" man in the light side, even a hero, but he had learned that action can remove a problem immediately rather than waiting for the proper processes to deal with it and potentially allow future victims to fall at the hands of enemies. He decided with Dooku that just killing him would be better than taking him prisoner, again the easy way out. But that was Aniakin, he was shaped by the fact he saw people being victimised through inaction on the part of those in authority, he grew up a slave after all, so his worldview and experiences/losses made him particularly vulnerable to that way of thinking.

Given that Luke was not one to seek power the way Anakin did he likely would not have been as tempted by such shortcuts, though he did have the weakness Anakin had of being protective of his loved ones, so that is where his flaws should have been shown to be exploited from. His protectiveness of Kylo should have been what allowed Kylo to go on to become a Sith/Ren/whatever.

I get what you are saying, but in 1980, Yoda saying “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wans apprentice.”

That was taken very literally. Once you use anger and hate to gain power or the upper hand, you will always be tempted to keep doing it….

I guess you can argue, Luke looked down the precipice, and backed away that the last crucial moment….I always found it interesting idea that all the killing Luke did in ROTJ was going to corrupt him….after all, the only other Jedi we saw never killed anyone at that point, he even let himself be killed to save others…..

We start ROTJ, with a traumatized Luke using what we assume to be a dark power (force choke) in the very first scene. Something we only saw Vader do before.

Then he pretty much killed several dozen people in the rescue attempt….not to mention all the people who died on the Death Star.

Its obviously much easier to speculate on this after 30 years, and countless hours of new content.

I really would have loved to see Luke struggle with the Dark Side more, but I see both sides and why some people will always want his to be their hero.

 

[ajp4mgs]

It doesn’t matter if Ahsoka is around, I’ll say it for the 5,000,000th time; Luke was the only one that could bring about the defeat of Palpatine.

Ahsoka tried to take Vader down and failed, she was still around just helping in other ways. She wasn’t relevant to the events of the OT.

Actually, turns out all you need to accomplish the defeat of Palpatine is having two lightsabers instead of one. And guess which character in OT times always carried two lightsabers with her?

 

[ajp4mgs]

I get what you are saying, but in 1980, Yoda saying “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wans apprentice.”

That was taken very literally. Once you use anger and hate to gain power or the upper hand, you will always be tempted to keep doing it….

I guess you can argue, Luke looked down the precipice, and backed away that the last crucial moment….I always found it interesting idea that all the killing Luke did in ROTJ was going to corrupt him….after all, the only other Jedi we saw never killed anyone at that point, he even let himself be killed to save others…..

We start ROTJ, with a traumatized Luke using what we assume to be a dark power (force choke) in the very first scene. Something we only saw Vader do before.

Then he pretty much killed several dozen people in the rescue attempt….not to mention all the people who died on the Death Star.

Its obviously much easier to speculate on this after 30 years, and countless hours of new content.

I really would have loved to see Luke struggle with the Dark Side more, but I see both sides and why some people will always want his to be their hero.

You raise some intriguing questions. Overall, there's a lot about Luke that often gets overlooked, IMO. I'm constantly surprised by how much people see him as being a character with unassailable purity and endless optimism. I think that probably comes from focusing a lot on his determined belief in there still being good in his father, but there are so many other facets to Luke's character which show a much more cynical and nuanced persona.

He was (justifiably) skeptical of Han throughout ANH, often contentious with him, and even reprimanded him for selfishness when all Han was trying to do was pay his debt quickly to keep from being killed by bounty hunters.

Luke also had little to no patience for Yoda in ESB before realizing that the little green guy was actually someone special. Luke second-guessed nearly everything and got frustrated about what he perceived was "wasting our time" and was cynical when "you ask the impossible."

When it came to ROTJ, Luke not only Force-choked the guards, as you point out, but he later actually tried to murder Jabba with a blaster for resisting the Jedi mind trick and not giving in to Luke's wishes. He also took his lightsaber to try to kill an unarmed Palpatine. Jabba and Palpatine were scum, but Luke's instincts in those two situations weren't exactly up to Jedi standards. Then, of course, there's the darkest example when he comes close to murdering his father only seconds after insisting he wouldn't fight him.

He's his father's son. Goodhearted for sure, but also impatient, impulsive, highly emotional, and often reckless as a result of those traits. So, it's not far-fetched to believe that the dark side would continue tempting Anakin's son, with constant effort being needed to resist his impulsive dark tendencies. You're starting to convince me that the tormented post-ROTJ Luke would indeed have been an interesting and believable story direction.

 

[a-dev]

I get what you are saying, but in 1980, Yoda saying “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wans apprentice.”

That was taken very literally. Once you use anger and hate to gain power or the upper hand, you will always be tempted to keep doing it….

I guess you can argue, Luke looked down the precipice, and backed away that the last crucial moment….I always found it interesting idea that all the killing Luke did in ROTJ was going to corrupt him….after all, the only other Jedi we saw never killed anyone at that point, he even let himself be killed to save others…..

We start ROTJ, with a traumatized Luke using what we assume to be a dark power (force choke) in the very first scene. Something we only saw Vader do before.

Then he pretty much killed several dozen people in the rescue attempt…

Nah he wasn't killing those Skiff guards - he clearly had switched his Lightsaber to ''bat'' mode and was just giving them a damn good thrashing.

 

[jaztermareal]

Nah he wasn't killing those Skiff guards - he clearly had switched his Lightsaber to ''bat'' mode and was just giving them a damn good thrashing.

Same bat mode Kenobi used in his show I presume

 

[ZE_501]

Luke also had little to no patience for Yoda in ESB before realizing that the little green guy was actually someone [...]

When it came to ROTJ, Luke not only Force-choked the guards, as you point out, but he later actually tried to murder Jabba with a blaster for resisting the Jedi mind trick and not giving in to Luke's wishes.

Yeah but those are all aliens, not .. you know ... people.

 

[xipotec]

You raise some intriguing questions. Overall, there's a lot about Luke that often gets overlooked, IMO. I'm constantly surprised by how much people see him as being a character with unassailable purity and endless optimism. I think that probably comes from focusing a lot on his determined belief in there still being good in his father, but there are so many other facets to Luke's character which show a much more cynical and nuanced persona.

He was (justifiably) skeptical of Han throughout ANH, often contentious with him, and even reprimanded him for selfishness when all Han was trying to do was pay his debt quickly to keep from being killed by bounty hunters.

Luke also had little to no patience for Yoda in ESB before realizing that the little green guy was actually someone special. Luke second-guessed nearly everything and got frustrated about what he perceived was "wasting our time" and was cynical when "you ask the impossible."

When it came to ROTJ, Luke not only Force-choked the guards, as you point out, but he later actually tried to murder Jabba with a blaster for resisting the Jedi mind trick and not giving in to Luke's wishes. He also took his lightsaber to try to kill an unarmed Palpatine. Jabba and Palpatine were scum, but Luke's instincts in those two situations weren't exactly up to Jedi standards. Then, of course, there's the darkest example when he comes close to murdering his father only seconds after insisting he wouldn't fight him.

He's his father's son. Goodhearted for sure, but also impatient, impulsive, highly emotional, and often reckless as a result of those traits. So, it's not far-fetched to believe that the dark side would continue tempting Anakin's son, with constant effort being needed to resist his impulsive dark tendencies. You're starting to convince me that the tormented post-ROTJ Luke would indeed have been an interesting and believable story direction.

You literally incapsulated my general feeling about Luke in this single post.

Now, heres he hard part for people. I also think, Luke as portrayed in The Last Jedi. was basically perfect. People hated it because they were stuck on the Luke as viewed from child or young persons point of view. (theres that phrase again).

But all the characteristics you mentioned are still a huge part of his persona in TLJ. He LITERALLY does the same thing with Kylo, as he did with his father…..made a move to kill him, then reels himself back in…He's moody, and in way over his head with the Jedi school….

The beauty is , he LEARNs from his constant return to the Skywalker base personality ….and at the end , he FINALLY puts into practice the actual Jedi way, and tricks Kylo, and saves his friends without any violence or fighting at all…..the true Jedi path….

But everyone hated it, and wanted the strong, undefeatable hero, not a severely damaged and flawed person whos life was tragedy.

They got that in the season finale of Mando, so good for them…..

Greats posts guys!

 

[Otomofan]

I know there are some people that claim to "enjoy" TLJ and have been since 2017.

I'm sure a good number of them don't really like it or even remember it at all, but just SAY they like it to piss off the people that hate it. But apparently there ARE people that genuinely enjoyed it and thought it was a pleasant cinematic experience.

I just can't wrap my brain around that. It's so alien to me.

But then I think about how some people will actually eat pineapple on pizza and pretend it's not the most vile, nauseating thing you can put in your mouth and I realize that some people really DO enjoy bad things.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I know there are some people that claim to "enjoy" TLJ and have been since 2017.

I'm sure a good number of them don't really like it or even remember it at all, but just SAY they like it to piss off the people that hate it. But apparently there ARE people that genuinely enjoyed it and thought it was a pleasant cinematic experience.

I just can't wrap my brain around that. It's so alien to me.

But then I think about how some people will actually eat pineapple on pizza and pretend it's not the most vile, nauseating thing you can put in your mouth and I realize that some people really DO enjoy bad things.

The only nice thing I can say about TLJ is that it's a good looking movie. That's it.
The awful unfunny, misplaced "humour", opening the film with cringey yo mamma jokes and the whole "Huggs" thing *shudder*.
The stupidity of the bombers. The way the movie treats legacy characters. The way it treats its own characters (poor Poe and Finn), the awful new characters this movie creates, the ridiculous lightspeed ramming that raises all sorts of questions, the stupid Leia Poppins scene.
The slowest most boring space chase ever. It was like watching OJ flee the police. In space.
The entirety pointless casino scenes.
Mop boy.
The bizarre dialogue throughout the movie, for example, the infamous Tico fighting for love not against hate bit.
The terrible DJ character and Del Toro's dodgy performance.
Those bloody Porg things.
The abysmal fight choreography in the throne room scene with the Praetorian guards (Mando did it better)
The teen angst quasi romance/attraction thing with Rey and Kylo.
Killing Snoke without explaining anything about him or where he came from (and leaving it to hack JJ to come up with the clone Snokes in a jar in TROS)
Even the damn costumes sucked in some places. Look at what they did to poor Rose Tico actress. Stuffed her into a potato sack. And that awful evening gown and purple hair combo for Laura Dern.
Rey got a good Jedi costume though. Prefer it to the "same as TFA, just in white" outfit shd got in TROS.

To each their own, if people like it, then great. Just means there's more Star Wars out there for them.

Anyway Ahsoka. My daughter is interested in the show. I'm not too fussed personally. I may watch some of it with her, may not.

Been watching The Mandalorian with my youngest. Finished the first season last night. He loved it so far. Onto season 2 today.

 

[ironwez20]

One scene that sticks out to me is when they’re running from two inquisitors and Ahsoka shows up and just chops them down like nothing.

I agree! Maul actually showed some fear in knowing that Vader was coming to the Sith temple.

He did . I remember seeing the episode. The “he’s coming” from maul was def fearful

 

[ironwez20]

I know there are some people that claim to "enjoy" TLJ and have been since 2017.

I'm sure a good number of them don't really like it or even remember it at all, but just SAY they like it to piss off the people that hate it. But apparently there ARE people that genuinely enjoyed it and thought it was a pleasant cinematic experience.

I just can't wrap my brain around that. It's so alien to me.

But then I think about how some people will actually eat pineapple on pizza and pretend it's not the most vile, nauseating thing you can put in your mouth and I realize that some people really DO enjoy bad things.

I can’t either. But it’s not the worst thing I’ve seen but it’s so badly written and the follow up is even worse. And yes some people do say “ I like it” just to get a rise out of people.
Kinda sad actually

 

[Otomofan]

I generally like Laura Dern in her other movies, but when she shows up on the deck of that spaceship in that damn purple ballroom dress and her weird giraffe neck and that stupid purple wig on, I just get filled with unreasonable rage.

What a horribly written, contemptible and loathsome character.

She's not even fun in a "so bad you love to hate her" kind of way like that mean old school teacher lady in Harry Potter. She's just a repugnant character for how tone deaf every aspect of her character is, from personality to design to dialogue. Were we supposed to LIKE her? Everything about her is detestable.

Anyway.

Sorry...this is the Ahsoka thread. Off on a tangent there.

Here's my question about Ahsoka.....those things on her head are called "lekku." Isn't that just a truly disgusting word for a rather disgusting concept? They're big jiggly growths coming out of her head. Ick. I hate how they jiggle. Is there some kind of sexual/reproductive purpose of the lekku? Do you rub lekku together like how the Na'vi do it in Avatar?

Does anyone else hate lekku or only me?

 

[Ramatuelle]

Isnt part of the brain supposed to be in their lekku? Cant remember where i read that.

They also use small movements of the lekku to convey emotion and communicate with their own kind. Humans have no idea what theyre saying.

 

[e30ernest]

the stupid Leia Poppins scene.

I always liked Leia Poppins because it's one of the few instances Star Wars actually had good science.

The light speed ram, I think it depends. If entering hyperspace meant going to a different dimension to travel faster than light, then yeah it's a bit off. But if entering hyperspace meant you had to accelerate close to the speed of light, then it also makes sense as a tactic.

The rebels not doing it more often can be explained by their overall lack of ships compared to the Empire. Based on what we're seeing in Mando so far, it looks like the New Republic also does not have a lot of ships in their arsenal.

 

[Otomofan]

Isnt part of the brain supposed to be in their lekku? Cant remember where i read that.

They also use small movements of the lekku to convey emotion and communicate with their own kind. Humans have no idea what theyre saying.

Ugh. I'm grossed out just imagining their lekku twitching and gyrating.

You just know they rub lekku during intercourse. Or mom's catch their sons playing with their lekku in the bathroom. Yuck.


As for the so-called "Holdo Maneuver," it was a neat visual effect but definitely near the top of the list of all-time stupidest things ever seen in a Star Wars branded movie, right up there with the idea of a guy open mouth kissing his sister. We went over it for months as to why it's so blitheringly stupid, so I won't rehash it.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I always liked Leia Poppins because it's one of the few instances Star Wars actually had good science.

The light speed ram, I think it depends. If entering hyperspace meant going to a different dimension to travel faster than light, then yeah it's a bit off. But if entering hyperspace meant you had to accelerate close to the speed of light, then it also makes sense as a tactic.

The rebels not doing it more often can be explained by their overall lack of ships compared to the Empire. Based on what we're seeing in Mando so far, it looks like the New Republic also does not have a lot of ships in their arsenal.

I don't want to derail this Ahsoka show thread talking about the dreadful TLJ movie, but....
The Rebels never used the lightspeed ramming thing. Ever. They could have taken out a fleet of ISD's with just a few ships bought or stolen from anywhere, even a junkyard, fixed it up only to the point it can enter hyperspace (it only needs to be able to go to hyperspace), put a droid navigator in it and aim it at an Imperial Fleet.
They could make a shell of a ship, build it around a hyperdrive, set an automatic pilot and send it along with dozens of others, straight at the Deathstar. Or Vaders Super Star Destroyer.
They don't need to be proper ships. Just something than contains a hyperdrive you can point at the enemy.

Leia using the Force to drag herself to the ship just looks stupid.

 

[chrisstbh]

I don't want to derail this Ahsoka show thread talking about the dreadful TLJ movie, but....
The Rebels never used the lightspeed ramming thing. Ever. They could have taken out a fleet of ISD's with just a ships bought or stolen from anywhere, even a junkyard, fixed it up only to the point it can enter hyperspace (it only needs to be able to go to hyperspace), put a droid navigator in it and aim it at an Imperial Fleet.
They could make a shell of a ship, build it around a hyperdrive, set an automatic pilot and send it along with dozens of others, straight at the Deathstar. Or Vaders Super Star Destroyer.
They don't need to be proper ships. Just something than contains a hyperdrive you can point at the enemy.

Leia using the Force to drag herself to the ship just looks stupid.

Droid lives matter.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Droid lives matter.

I'm sure the Rebels wouldn't mind sacrificing a few for the cause.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The light speed ram, I think it depends. If entering hyperspace meant going to a different dimension to travel faster than light, then yeah it's a bit off. But if entering hyperspace meant you had to accelerate close to the speed of light, then it also makes sense as a tactic.

From my understanding, hyperspace involves *both* elements that you're describing.
There's first an acceleration into hyperspace, and we see this demonstrated in the movies. In the "jump to lightspeed" that Han mentions, the "jump" refers to the acceleration to lightspeed that's required to enter hyperspace. Once inside, they're traveling through an alternate dimension and able to traverse the galaxy far faster than going at the speed of light.

The SW "science" behind it is that hyperdrives are what allow ships in real space to create an interaction with the particles that form hyperspace. This opens a portal of sorts, pulling the ship into that alternate dimension right when it hits a minimum velocity of lightspeed.

In Holdo's case, she would've set coordinates to make a jump that would enter hyperspace just beyond where Snoke's ship was, thereby traveling close to the speed of light but still not fast enough to have exited real space on impact. So, I think the massive size of the Raddus, and not just the speed, had an important influence in the mass/energy ratio.

BTW, there was almost an unintended "Holdo Manuever" in Rogue One when Vader arrived at Scarif. In the beginning of the clip below, you can see the accelaration of several ships making the "jump." But you can also see that it was only a matter of milliseconds from a ship accelerating into hyperspace right into the star destroyer decelerating out of it.



We saw in TPM that hyperdrives are very costly, and we can assume that ships the size of the Raddus would be monumentally expensive. So this isn't a tactic that a ragtag Rebellion/Resistance would employ just to take out one or two star destroyers in a fleet of hundreds. Mon Mothma would need a lot more daughters to arrange marriages for in order to raise that kind of dough.

 

[ironwez20]

I’m going to call asta if I see one more post about TLJ I’m super serial