Trust me, nothing I say is going to sway jye one iota. He knows it, I know it, everyone else knows it. I hope he enjoys it. I gain nothing from other fans disliking what I dislike.
I would always recommend watching something and judging for yourself, but I'd like to weigh in on comparing characters in terms of being overpowered. Here's my view of three Ezra comparisons that matter most to me.
Ezra vs. Luke
Two or three years after being introduced to the Force, Luke got mauled by a Wampa, had to crash land a snowspeeder on Hoth and an x-wing on Dagobah, got beat by Vader and lost his hand in the first lightsaber duel he had, couldn't use the Force to subdue a Rancor (even Grogu can do that) so had to resort to cruder measures, got shot in the hand by a random goon, and got completely throttled by Palpatine.
Ezra was also humbled by Vader, but held his own against Inquisitors. His skills with leaping, dashing, and using telekinesis were all way more advanced than anything we saw Luke do. He used mind control (not just a Jedi mind trick, btw!) to take over an AT-ST by remote puppeteer of the driver inside it. And his beast control was absolutely unparalleled; off the charts.
Verdict: No contest; Ezra is more overpowered than Luke.
Ezra vs. Anakin
After ten years of being trained by a Jedi Master (not a mere padawan trainer like Kanan was), Anakin got his *** handed to him by Dooku and lost part of his arm in his first saber duel. He did control a beast, but with nowhere near the level of expertise that Ezra had. The mind control Ezra displayed was also more than anything I can remember Anakin doing. Other skills were a mixed bag.
But here's the real clincher for me: When facing the loss of loved ones, Anakin went dark and abandoned all Jedi principles without self control. Ezra, on the other hand, *literally* had the opportunity to save his parents and his former master from death... and selflessly walked away to keep their dark fate intact by "the will of the Force." And he was just 15 or 16 years old at the time.
Verdict: Given Anakin's training, midichlorian count higher than Yoda's, and "Chosen One" pedigree, Ezra is the more overpowered (or at least "overextended") one.
Ezra vs. Rey
In TFA alone, and without a single second of Jedi training, Rey used a Jedi mind trick without even knowing what such a thing was, resisted a mind probe from someone of Skywalker lineage who had been trained by both Luke and Snoke (via Palpatine), beat him in a lightsaber duel the first time she ever ignited one, and outpiloted trained TIE fighter pilots. She then went on to get absolutely embarassed by Snoke, but ended up a year later having learned Force healing and communing with every Jedi spirit before defeating the Sith and taking that destiny away from Anakin.
Verdict: Landslide. Rey is way more overpowered than Ezra.
These are the sorts of nerd timewasters I love.
I do agree that the eras in which these shows/movies are made, along with the format of animated versus live action, have something to do with how power levels are portrayed. Of course. But when certain "rules" are established in a previous era, and even in a different format, I prefer when those rules aren't neglected or contradicted. Same kind of thing as with Vader yanking down a starship in OWK, but having an almost identical situation in ESB and being powerless. Just because new technology allows certain things to be done doesn't mean they *should* be done if it undermines (even minimally) a sacred classic.For Luke, what the Force was, wasn't really defined back then (was full mind control even a thing back then?), and as another pointed out the Effects are nowhere near what animation can do for cheap. If ANH was made by Lucas today, you'd see all the dashing and jumping that Ezra was doing. In those early examples of Luke you gave, Luke had no one training him. Ezra had Kanan teaching him so it makes sense Ezra's powers would be more advanced the Luke's in a shorter time. Once Luke got some training from Yoda he was force choking, moving objects, and mind controlling weak willed people just fine. I remember Ezra being saved by the other Rebels when facing Inquisitors, he was able to hold them off for a while but if my memory serves, he was always saved by someone. Ezra had a couple hiccups with Jedi mind trick, he didn't just start doing it off the bat, like Rey. The animal thing was explained that it was his Force affinity or something. The books (I think it was) introduced this whole thing where some Force users were especially talented in some areas, Ezra's was animals.
Anakin was a Padawan and lost to a Sith Lord (Dooku). Just like Ezra losing to Vader. In fact Anakin actually did quiet well initially. Anakin was being influenced by a Sith Lord, basically brainwashed into thinking the Council was against him, and that the only way to save Padme was to join the darkside. Ezra had none of those issues he made the hard choice, at 19ish, because he had support and family who kept him on the right path.
I love nerd timewasters, makes the day go by quicker. And please don't take my response as me attacking or anything. You have valid points, I just have a....different point of view
Bottom line I think the biggest problem with the characters and why some seem over powered compared to others, is the time these shows were made, lore has expanded, and what the force is has been better defined from the early days of SW. If you read some of the books, there are Jedi doing CRAZY overpowered stuff, including Luke.
Well, I went into it kinda late, didn't know much about it, was watching it as something to watch. First impression from the animation itself it was more simplistic and "kiddie". But after a few episodes was impressed with each character being distinctive, with their own quirks and baggage, IMO never that easy to do from scratch. Their interchanges didn't bore me.People that haven’t watched the show seem to have some heavy criticisms of it
Rebels is good and Ezra isn’t even the focus half of the time.
So from my understanding, you like a stricter canon, where I'm ok with a looser one. I get that.I do agree that the eras in which these shows/movies are made, along with the format of animated versus live action, have something to do with how power levels are portrayed. Of course. But when certain "rules" are established in a previous era, and even in a different format, I prefer when those rules aren't neglected or contradicted. Same kind of thing as with Vader yanking down a starship in OWK, but having an almost identical situation in ESB and being powerless. Just because new technology allows certain things to be done doesn't mean they *should* be done if it undermines (even minimally) a sacred classic.
You also mention that you're not sure if something like full mind control was even a thing back in the OT. What I respond with is that if situations would've clearly called for it from even more capable characters, then it shouldn't be retroactively introduced earlier into that same timeline. Rebels is set before the OT, so comparisons are going to be a natural impulse for some fans (like me). Nothing prevented Lucas from utilizing full mind control in the OT (it's as simple as having an actor behave as if he's a puppet), so seeing Ezra control an AT-ST to defeat his adversaries begs the comparison to all the times Luke or Kenobi could've helped the Rebellion that way but obviously didn't. Why create that inconsistency?
And here's the real kicker: After Ezra released the AT-ST, Sabine (or Hera? I can't remember) asked him something to the effect of, "When did Kanan teach you to do that!?" Do you remember Ezra's response? It was, "He didn't." That's a problem for me, and it directly addresses your assertion that Kanan was teaching Ezra the powers he was displaying. The show itself explicitly suggests otherwise.
If Ezra was only particularly adept with animals/beasts that would be one thing, but he was proficient at soooooooo much more at such a young age. And it's fine to bring up the difference in his upbringing with respect to being selfless (thank you for correcting me that he was actually 19ish in that final season), but it doesn't materially change my point about his capacity to be better, even if it's in emotional maturity.
You gave me your bottom line, so I'll give you mine. New characters and new powers are something that I welcome in SW, but *not* at the expense of the integrity of what came before. If it's set in the timeline *after* the lesser examples, then that's a different story. But power levels that undermine what had long been perceived as a key plot point (like Luke and Leia being the last chance to train wizards to take down the Empire) is an issue for me. If someone as powerful as Ezra was in the Rebellion and interacted with Yoda and Obi-Wan, I hope you can understand why that presents plot logic questions and thereby irks me.
I'd argue tho that IMO 1) different beings, different abilities and 2) you can't really compare Ezra to Luke or Anakin, simply because Ezra was a street-wise orphan. And while Rey is similar in also a being an orphan, Ezra was more adult from the outset in having to survive by some questionable activities. So all the leaping etc. would be something Ezra would have done just as a survival skill, tho it's a lot better with the Force.I would always recommend watching something and judging for yourself, but I'd like to weigh in on comparing characters in terms of being overpowered. Here's my view of three Ezra comparisons that matter most to me.
Ezra vs. Luke
Two or three years after being introduced to the Force, Luke got mauled by a Wampa, had to crash land a snowspeeder on Hoth and an x-wing on Dagobah, got beat by Vader and lost his hand in the first lightsaber duel he had, couldn't use the Force to subdue a Rancor (even Grogu can do that
Ezra was also humbled by Vader, but held his own against Inquisitors. His skills with leaping, dashing, and using telekinesis were all way more advanced than anything we saw Luke do. He used mind control (not just a Jedi mind trick, btw!) to take over an AT-ST by remote puppeteer of the driver inside it. And his beast control was absolutely unparalleled; off the charts.
Verdict: No contest; Ezra is more overpowered than Luke.
Ezra vs. Anakin
After ten years of being trained by a Jedi Master (not a mere padawan trainer like Kanan was), Anakin got his *** handed to him by Dooku and lost part of his arm in his first saber duel. He did control a beast, but with nowhere near the level of expertise that Ezra had. The mind control Ezra displayed was also more than anything I can remember Anakin doing. Other skills were a mixed bag.
But here's the real clincher for me: When facing the loss of loved ones, Anakin went dark and abandoned all Jedi principles without self control. Ezra, on the other hand, *literally* had the opportunity to save his parents and his former master from death... and selflessly walked away to keep their dark fate intact by "the will of the Force." And he was just 15 or 16 years old at the time.
Verdict: Given Anakin's training, midichlorian count higher than Yoda's, and "Chosen One" pedigree, Ezra is the more overpowered (or at least "overextended") one.
Ezra vs. Rey
In TFA alone, and without a single second of Jedi training, Rey used a Jedi mind trick without even knowing what such a thing was, resisted a mind probe from someone of Skywalker lineage who had been trained by both Luke and Snoke (via Palpatine), beat him in a lightsaber duel the first time she ever ignited one, and outpiloted trained TIE fighter pilots. She then went on to get absolutely embarassed by Snoke, but ended up a year later having learned Force healing and communing with every Jedi spirit before defeating the Sith and taking that destiny away from Anakin.
Verdict: Landslide. Rey is way more overpowered than Ezra.
These are the sorts of nerd timewasters I love.
A thousand generations etc. The best fighter, the best pilot, and a spectacular sailor as well as uber-powered.
Early leaks are saying that she's going to manipulate the midichlorians in order to become pregnant and give birth...to herself.You can't compare Rey to anyone, she is the ONE.
That comment made me think maybe she'll end up being like Ego, making multiple copies of herself until the entire galaxy is - Rey.
Where did you see that?
I actually thought Sabine was one of the more interesting characters. While I agree with you she is quite young, she also came from a warrior culture so her upbringing will be very different.
Yes
