Star Wars: Ahsoka

[phantom65]

People that haven’t watched the show seem to have some heavy criticisms of it .

Rebels is good and Ezra isn’t even the focus half of the time.

100%. 1st season was dodgy at times but after that I thought it was great Series.

Remember also… we are grown men debating a cartoon.

 

[Kebron]

if memory serves, she is a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD weapons genius/savant and yeah, okay Jan. Sure. If you say so.

Sabine was 16. Luke was 18/19, and was apprently a ace pilot with no combat training who blew up a battle station in a ship he never flew before, where more experienced pilots were shot down, oh and he's mowing down trained troops when he's had zero combat training. Anakin was 10 and achieved a similar feat, plus built his own pod racer and robot. Leia was 18/19 and was a leader in the rebellion, and a member of the Senate. Padme was 15 and ELECTED Queen of Naboo.

SW has always had kids doing and achieving exceptional things since its inception. Let's not pretend a 16 year old being a weapons genius/savant is where you draw the line at believability.

 

[wormlander]

You forgot that desert dweller Rey somehow knew how to swim without training too......

I hate sand but still have a mean backstroke. That's got to mean something right?...

 

[ZE_501]

Sabine was 16. Luke was 18/19, and was apprently a ace pilot with no combat training who blew up a battle station in a ship he never flew before, where more experienced pilots were shot down, oh and he's mowing down trained troops when he's had zero combat training. Anakin was 10 and achieved a similar feat, plus built his own pod racer and robot. Leia was 18/19 and was a leader in the rebellion, and a member of the Senate. Padme was 15 and ELECTED Queen of Naboo.

SW has always had kids doing and achieving exceptional things since its inception. Let's not pretend a 16 year old being a weapons genius/savant is where you draw the line at believability.

That's all some Game of Thrones business, right there. At least the ages, not necessarily the feats and longevity. Pfft ...o nly one of those characters got maimed and only a couple of them were tortured.

 

[ZE_501]

Filoni said -

 

[Kebron]

That's all some Game of Thrones business, right there. At least the ages, not necessarily the feats and longevity. Pfft ...o nly one of those characters got maimed and only a couple of them were tortured.

Sorry, you lost me here. What does characters being maimed and tortured have to do with the point that SW has always had young characters who were overpowered?

 

[ZE_501]

Sorry, you lost me here. What does characters being maimed and tortured have to do with the point that SW has always had young characters who were overpowered?

LOL ... I was just referring to the youthful characters being placed in adult situations and jeopardy. With somewhat less maiming.

 

[chrisstbh]

Spoiler

 

[e30ernest]

Spoiler

View attachment 633218

That last one, should be:

Spoiler

 

[ZE_501]

Spoiler

View attachment 633218

I was looking at each panel intently and *actually* LOL'd at the last one.

 

[xipotec]

People that haven’t watched the show seem to have some heavy criticisms of it .

Rebels is good and Ezra isn’t even the focus half of the time.

Typical of them, hate first…..

 

[xipotec]

I would always recommend watching something and judging for yourself, but I'd like to weigh in on comparing characters in terms of being overpowered. Here's my view of three Ezra comparisons that matter most to me.

Ezra vs. Luke
Two or three years after being introduced to the Force, Luke got mauled by a Wampa, had to crash land a snowspeeder on Hoth and an x-wing on Dagobah, got beat by Vader and lost his hand in the first lightsaber duel he had, couldn't use the Force to subdue a Rancor (even Grogu can do that ) so had to resort to cruder measures, got shot in the hand by a random goon, and got completely throttled by Palpatine.

Ezra was also humbled by Vader, but held his own against Inquisitors. His skills with leaping, dashing, and using telekinesis were all way more advanced than anything we saw Luke do. He used mind control (not just a Jedi mind trick, btw!) to take over an AT-ST by remote puppeteer of the driver inside it. And his beast control was absolutely unparalleled; off the charts.

Verdict: No contest; Ezra is more overpowered than Luke.

Ezra vs. Anakin
After ten years of being trained by a Jedi Master (not a mere padawan trainer like Kanan was), Anakin got his *** handed to him by Dooku and lost part of his arm in his first saber duel. He did control a beast, but with nowhere near the level of expertise that Ezra had. The mind control Ezra displayed was also more than anything I can remember Anakin doing. Other skills were a mixed bag.

But here's the real clincher for me: When facing the loss of loved ones, Anakin went dark and abandoned all Jedi principles without self control. Ezra, on the other hand, *literally* had the opportunity to save his parents and his former master from death... and selflessly walked away to keep their dark fate intact by "the will of the Force." And he was just 15 or 16 years old at the time.

Verdict: Given Anakin's training, midichlorian count higher than Yoda's, and "Chosen One" pedigree, Ezra is the more overpowered (or at least "overextended") one.

Ezra vs. Rey
In TFA alone, and without a single second of Jedi training, Rey used a Jedi mind trick without even knowing what such a thing was, resisted a mind probe from someone of Skywalker lineage who had been trained by both Luke and Snoke (via Palpatine), beat him in a lightsaber duel the first time she ever ignited one, and outpiloted trained TIE fighter pilots. She then went on to get absolutely embarassed by Snoke, but ended up a year later having learned Force healing and communing with every Jedi spirit before defeating the Sith and taking that destiny away from Anakin.

Verdict: Landslide. Rey is way more overpowered than Ezra.

These are the sorts of nerd timewasters I love.

We all tend to think Luke Skywalker is somehow the most powerful Jedi ever….he losing all the time, as mentioned above….

They continually say he is TOO OLD to become a Jedi. While Ezra was much younger and clearly more talented than Luke in the force at that age.

Ezra literally lived with a Jedi for years.

The constant issues people have with other Jedi, being Rey, Ezra or Asoka, is they compare them to Luke…..Luke was not the greatest Jedi ever!!!!!

He was a floundering fledgling Jedi, with no consistent teacher , hardly any real training, then basically self taught….

Ezra and Asoka had actualy years training under actual Jedi.

Rey , I get the critique. But I just sum it up by saying she was stronger than Luke.

The issues alot of people have is every Jedi somehow much be compared to Luke, their boyhood hero….

Once you look at Luke with adult eyes, its clear he is very lucky and very weal with the force. (unless he uses the dark side)

 

[ZE_501]

Once you look at Luke with adult eyes, its clear he is very lucky and very weal with the force. (unless he uses the dark side)

An interesting take.

It would make him *quite* heroic in the sense that he didn't achieve heroic ends via power and brute force so much as determination, courage, luck and his friends.

(Which is not to say he didn't have some spectacular abilities ... and ... errr ... plot armour.)

More interesting than a superhero Jedi (which we began to see in the PT and got A LOT of subsequently via Lucas, Filoni and now Kennedy-Wars with F&F.

 

[Cagoda]

Power is not necessarily a goal of the Jedi. Ahsoka objectively may be more powerful and better trained than Luke; but the love Luke and Anakin had for family was the catalyst to help Vader turn back to the light side. Luke had to confront Vader. He was a remaining beacon of hope from Padme, something Ahsoka could not achieve. If power was what turned Vader, a lot of Force users could have ended the war a lot earlier. Luke was the only one who could get Anakin to come back. Thats my interpretation at least.
I've never really been a fan of the video game approach to Star Wars power levels. In my opinion its singular minded and ignores a myriad of other factors.

 

[ajp4mgs]

We all tend to think Luke Skywalker is somehow the most powerful Jedi ever….he losing all the time, as mentioned above….

They continually say he is TOO OLD to become a Jedi. While Ezra was much younger and clearly more talented than Luke in the force at that age.

Ezra literally lived with a Jedi for years.

The constant issues people have with other Jedi, being Rey, Ezra or Asoka, is they compare them to Luke…..Luke was not the greatest Jedi ever!!!!!

He was a floundering fledgling Jedi, with no consistent teacher , hardly any real training, then basically self taught….

Ezra and Asoka had actualy years training under actual Jedi.

Rey , I get the critique. But I just sum it up by saying she was stronger than Luke.

The issues alot of people have is every Jedi somehow much be compared to Luke, their boyhood hero….

Once you look at Luke with adult eyes, its clear he is very lucky and very weal with the force. (unless he uses the dark side)

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, but too many people seem to be missing my point, so I'm going to try this a more direct way.

I don't care how many Jedi were more powerful than Luke *before* the OT. I don't care how many Jedi become more powerful than Luke *after* the OT. What I do care about is the potentially more powerful Jedi existing *during* the OT... because THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY.

Context: While Kenobi and Yoda are patiently waiting 20 years in exile for a new hope to help topple the Empire, Ezra is getting Jedi training. Prior to ANH, he's already gifted enough to completely control the minds of Imperial drivers/pilots and whisk away a star destroyer with his incredible force control of space whales. He also has enough self control to let go of his loved ones, thereby leaving himself less vulnerable to the dark side. Luke and Leia were born one day after Ezra, who had years of training under his belt before Luke first touched a lightsaber.

Question: If Luke ends up being as lucky or inferior as you're suggesting, and he never develops the type of Force mastery in the OT that Ezra clearly demonstrated in the years leading up to it, then how does the main protagonist plot of the OT make any sense?

Obi-Wan knows about Ezra. Yoda knows about Ezra. If you're saying that Luke isn't all that special, then why are he and Leia considered so important? Why would Kenobi not send Ezra to Yoda? If Ezra is better at learning the Force, he would've lifted that x-wing out of the swamp and even twirled it in midair just for giggles. And training Ezra to kill Vader would mean getting to avoid the whole "kill your own father" ambition that so many fans insist Yoda and Kenobi had in mind.

My objections to characters like Ezra and Ahsoka are all predicated on context and wanting to preserve the plot integrity of the OT. If I'm still not being clear about this, then I'll just give up.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Power is not necessarily a goal of the Jedi. Ahsoka objectively may be more powerful and better trained than Luke; but the love Luke and Anakin had for family was the catalyst to help Vader turn back to the light side. Luke had to confront Vader. He was a remaining beacon of hope from Padme, something Ahsoka could not achieve. If power was what turned Vader, a lot of Force users could have ended the war a lot earlier. Luke was the only one who could get Anakin to come back. Thats my interpretation at least.
I've never really been a fan of the video game approach to Star Wars power levels. In my opinion its singular minded and ignores a myriad of other factors.

I have the same interpretation, which is the only way that the saga can actually make any sense. But if we take the OT at face value, Kenobi and Yoda wanted Luke to kill Vader, not turn him. Hence the "he's more machine now than man... twisted and evil" dialogue. And especially the "then the Emperor has already won" dialogue when Luke says that he can't kill his own father.

We're using mental gymnastics to interpret that dialogue differently than Lucas intended it. But for those who don't want to have to do that, Luke is being trained to become capable of killing the incredibly powerful Vader. Luke is being trained to become an incredibly powerful Jedi. That's what so many views of Luke's powers are probably based on.

 

[jye4ever]

Early leaks are saying that she's going to manipulate the midichlorians in order to become pregnant and give birth...to herself.

Holy freaking crap lulz

 

[pixletwin]

Also people conveniently forget two things about the RotJ Luke vs Vader duel:

1) He did not really beat Vader. Vader had no fight against Luke left in him because....
2) Luke conquered Vader with love... Cheesy, I know. But true.

 

[ZE_501]

Also people conveniently forget two things about the RotJ Luke vs Vader duel:

1) He did not really beat Vader. Vader had no fight against Luke left in him because....
2) Luke conquered Vader with love... Cheesy, I know. But true.

I dunno man ... Vader was talkin' some smack about Luke's sister and still Bad Guy-ing all over the place until the scrappy lil' fella went berserk on him.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Oh totally. Vader was taunting Luke to provoke him and force his anger to assist him in going to the dark side, like Anakin did when he cut off Mace's hand.