Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Tell me where the movie stated that Luke "left the map."

R2 got the data files from the Empire.

Poe got the other portion from Max Von Sydow.

At no point was it ever stated that Luke himself left breadcrumbs for others to find.

How would anyone know where he was going if he didn’t tell them? Or leave a map. “a map to Luke Skywalker”

And how did R2 get it from the empire? This is not what was narratively suggested by TFA- it’s just post rationalization to try and make sense of TLJ.

Listen if you take this approach of making up or explaining away everything with material that wasn’t in the movie than there is zero point in discussing it.
At least you are putting more creative thinking into it than Johnson did.
It’s a horribly disjoint and illogical piece of writing that favorited ‘moments’ rather than plot or narrative progression.

There are no plot holes in science fiction or fantasy as there are no rules as to what post rationalized ideas can be used to fill them in by fans.
It’s still **** writing though. And my god what a cheesy movie. The fathier chase is as bad as AOTC 3PO-Battle Droid head swap.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Asking questions there are answers for?

Could you explain the first order waiting for the resistance fuel to run out rather than shooting them out of the stars?
Out numbered, out flanked and massively out gunned. Nope we are going to slowly follow them until the audience gets bored.

This was 100% borrowed from a very good episode of Battlestar and in that it made perfect sense.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Asking questions there are answers for?

Could you explain the first order waiting for the resistance fuel to run out rather than shooting them out of the stars?

Its explained that they are able to stay out of gun range and can travel faster than the star destroyer.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

How would anyone know where he was going if he didn’t tell them? Or leave a map.

They didn't know. They were guessing that he'd be at the first Jedi Temple according to Han's speech in TFA. According to TLJ he went there so that he could destroy the last remnants of the Jedi Order. Why did they think that that's where he went? The movie doesn't spell it out. That doesn't make it a plot hole, it just wasn't explained, nor did it need to be. After Ben turned Leia could have seen Luke heading to his X-Wing, tried to stop him and through clenched teeth he says "the only place that this can be prevented from ever happening ever again is where the Jedi first began" and boom he takes off. Or whatever scenario you want to imagine based on the dialogue in the films.

He leaves and it either doesn't occur to him that R2 has a portion of a map leading to his destination or maybe he knew R2 had it but that it wasn't complete so he didn't care. Either way it didn't need to be spelled out.

And how did R2 get it from the empire?

According to Abrams R2 got the map from the Empire when he jacked into the first Death Star to find Leia's cell. Kylo's line about retrieving a portion of the map "from the archives of the Empire" was meant to elude to that. Would Abrams have spelled it out in more detail had he directed TLJ? Who knows. But that's how things played out and at no point in either film was it stated or implied that Luke left anyone a map to his whereabouts.

 

[RavenEye]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Its explained that they are able to stay out of gun range and can travel faster than the star destroyer.

Yet small fighters like Kylo apparently were able to reach and do massive damage...

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I'm in agreement that it seems like the FO could have taken out Leia's ship instead of simply keeping pace with it. But I also agree that Tarkin could have just blown up Yavin instead of orbiting it or the Empire could have just sent TIE Bombers under the Hoth shield instead of AT-AT's and wiped out the Rebels before they even left the ground. I guess the Empire/FO just likes to savor all the little emotions instead of going for the quick kill.

 

[Popnfresh98]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Its explained that they are able to stay out of gun range and can travel faster than the star destroyer.

Should have sent out the smaller pursuit ships then like they usually do

Edit: ah you beat me to it Raveneye!

Yet small fighters like Kylo apparently were able to reach and do massive damage...

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

They didn't know. They were guessing that he'd be at the first Jedi Temple according to Han's speech in TFA. According to TLJ he went there so that he could destroy the last remnants of the Jedi Order. Why did they think that that's where he went? The movie doesn't spell it out. That doesn't make it a plot hole, it just wasn't explained, nor did it need to be. After Ben turned Leia could have seen Luke heading to his X-Wing, tried to stop him and through clenched teeth he says "the only place that this can be prevented from ever happening ever again is where the Jedi first began" and boom he takes off. Or whatever scenario you want to imagine based on the dialogue in the films.

He leaves and it either doesn't occur to him that R2 has a portion of a map leading to his destination or maybe he knew R2 had it but that it wasn't complete so he didn't care. Either way it didn't need to be spelled out.



According to Abrams R2 got the map from the Empire when he jacked into the first Death Star to find Leia's cell. Kylo's line about retrieving a portion of the map "from the archives of the Empire" was meant to elude to that. Would Abrams have spelled it out in more detail had he directed TLJ? Who knows. But that's how things played out and at no point in either film was it stated or implied that Luke left anyone a map to his whereabouts.

I call ******** on that Khev. I read TFA novel and TLJ books (heaven help me) and none of that is in there nor is it in the movies. So what’s cannon?
Any thoughts on my other 100 or so points?

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Asking questions there are answers for?

Could you explain the first order waiting for the resistance fuel to run out rather than shooting them out of the stars?
Out numbered, out flanked and massively out gunned. Nope we are going to slowly follow them until the audience gets bored.

This was 100% borrowed from a very good episode of Battlestar and in that it made perfect sense.

While one mans boredom is another mans excitement they were firing at them.

You ever see an animal play and torment with their prey before?

Same goes for humans there are many instances were ego and superiority play a big role on how the weaker army is taunted and hunted.

You want answers the movie has them.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yet small fighters like Kylo apparently were able to reach and do massive damage...

Yes because they initially came out of lightspeed right on top of them. Then the rebels gain distance and the dialogue I mentioned takes place. Linear storytelling. Maybe you were busy counting how many women were present.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I call ******** on that Khev. I read TFA novel and TLJ books (heaven help me) and none of that is in there nor is it in the movies.

Well then listen to the blu-ray commentary or what the characters actually say in the movies. Or read this:

The story group’s thinking went back to the 1977 original movie, when R2-D2 accessed the Empire’s mainframe as the heroes searched for the captured Princess Leia. “We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that’s how he was able to get the full map and find where the Jedi temples are,” Arndt said.

Abrams says he chose to spell this out indirectly in the movie because he didn’t want the story to get bogged down in “how s–t happened 30 years ago.”

“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which *was* referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

https://ew.com/article/2015/12/20/j...question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens/

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I'm in agreement that it seems like the FO could have taken out Leia's ship instead of simply keeping pace with it. But I also agree that Tarkin could have just blown up Yavin instead of orbiting it or the Empire could have just sent TIE Bombers under the Hoth shield instead of AT-AT's and wiped out the Rebels before they even left the ground. I guess the Empire/FO just likes to savor all the little emotions instead of going for the quick kill.

Even though Gaspar didn’t agree more proof of OT getting a pass for the SAME EXACT STUFF!

But soy boi Rian and Kennedy nope they’re big nose loving filth destroying the patriarchy.

 

[Popnfresh98]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yes because they initially came out of lightspeed right on top of them. Then the rebels gain distance and the dialogue I mentioned takes place. Linear storytelling. Maybe you were busy counting how many women were present.

Of course now you turn to the personal insults that he must be a misogynist.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

While one mans boredom is another mans excitement they were firing at them.

You ever see an animal play and torment with their prey before?

Same goes for humans there are many instances were ego and superiority play a big role on how the weaker army is taunted and hunted.

You want answers the movie has them.

Oh god...

 

[Bravomite]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Why did the first order pull their fighters back, the resistance had no fighters left and we'd already seen in TLJ (with the opening scene) that turbo lasers were apparently useless against fighters in those times?

 

[RavenEye]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yes because they initially came out of lightspeed right on top of them. Then the rebels gain distance and the dialogue I mentioned takes place. Linear storytelling. Maybe you were busy counting how many women were present.

But yet couldn't jump to lightspeed again to regain foothold?

Jesus... I hated The Clone Wars cartoon, but now I have more respect for Filoni for making better space fights.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yes because they initially came out of lightspeed right on top of them. Then the rebels gain distance and the dialogue I mentioned takes place. Linear storytelling. Maybe you were busy counting how many women were present.

 

[RavenEye]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Of course now you turn to the personal insults that he must be a misogynist.

Yeah I'm ignoring that since Khev made it big deal I made fun of his bent over picture of last jedi poster.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

You see what’s the problem right Khev, are you seeing the pattern?

Seems like everyone now needs SW to be ST where everything has to come with a manual explanation for them on laser beam trajectory.

Wrong set of movies if you want that lol

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Of course now you turn to the personal insults that he must be a misogynist.

Thay was my mistake, I was trying to make a joke with Rory about how he was pausing the movie to count female staff. No personal insult meant to anyone I just misidentified who I was quoting.