Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Its sad for folks who feel thats SW is dead for them, really sad. I understand where your coming from.

But I will still disagree, its not a handful of people , its more like 50/50. The folks you mention are the ones on the board who will still talk about SW. Many gave up because it became suck a toxic subject in here and they didn’t care to engage the frankly rabid hate that was posted hour after hour by many disgruntled fans. I myself gave up posting here for a long while due to the constant/repetitive negativity from the same users. (Many who left).

The remaining people who post are much more civil and reasonable with the stuff they post.....good on them!


I still am very excited for IX.

As far as exciting moments? For me?

1. Ren attacking the village and killing Lor....laser blast stop, Finn turning, all awesome.

2. Poe/Finn escaping from 1st order.

3. Han returns to the Falcon

4. Poe saves the day taming out all the ties.

5. Ren captures Rey in the forest.

6. Ren killing Han

7. Rey catching Lukes Saber.

TLJ

1. Poes attack run on the Dreadnaught.

2. Luke giving in and explaining the true nature of the Force.

3. Rey and Lukes conflict, fight.

4. Luke on the Falcon

5. Throne room battle.

6. Holdo maneuver.

7. Lukes entrance on Crait, and the battle that follows.

All those moments felt like true trilogy things to me. Are the films perfect, no. There will never be another OT for us.

Cringy stuff? Sure...like all SW, Rathtars,
Mas cantina, and the entire Canto scene/Rose are misses....but I see just as many misses (more perhaps) in PT. Not to mention the production/acting/ is honestly IMO worse than OT.

I can HOPE IX will be the magic key that brings the three together as a successful story for many fans, and reunite the best fan base in the world.....but in the times we are now living, I do not think its possible. Too many people now make a living or define themselves with tearing things apart.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

See you say 50/50 but it’s only you and a few others on this thread with apj as the biggest fan. You guys constantly **** on rots but look over the stupid themes and scenes in TLJ. The ST is as big of a mess as the PT.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

This was the problem with the jedi order, and why luke thought the jedi must end in TLJ. The notion that all the jedi order is doing is training future sith. Anakin was not the first jedi to turn to the darkside due to their strict beliefs. He was just one of many, that is the crux of the problem here. The repression of the love and forsaking everything you care about to commit to the order, repressing these feelings is the catalyst for becomming evil especially when great harm comes to loved ones you could have protected. The issue I have with the last jedi is that Luke never would have taught the old jedi views to his new order pupils, including kylo ren. Luke had already changed the Jedi order the moment he allowed the love of his father to dictate his actions, he went against yoda and ben (the old ways), and he succeeded. He never would have taught Ben to give up on things he cared about, such as Han or Leia, if Ben was corrupted it would have been on his own, luke would not have been a facilitator (that whole lightsaber igniting scene while kylo was sleeping was so out of character I ignore it), he was not teaching love is bad, since it was love that allowed him to succeed against the emperor. So ya I don't buy any of the Luke character changes in TLJ, Kylo's turn wasn't lukes failure but a choice kylo made. However, much like Anakin, Snoke was in his mind at a young age, playing a similar role as Palpatine. Kylo's turn suggests that some people just turn bad, and nothing you can do can stop that. I can see luke blaming himself a bit for this, because he loves his family but he would never forsake everything he cared about, he wouldn't give up on kylo like he didn't give up on his father (because he succeeded with his father).

Rey encapsulates all of the new order stuff (I would assume luke would have been teaching his pupils), she uses her emotions as an asset, mainly derived from her love and compassion for her friends much like Luke (and even Anakin did before the jedi ****ed him up). She seeks to know her family, because she wants that connection she embraces love and emotion. Yoda burning down the tree (the old ways) is symbolic of this he then tells Luke she knows everything she needs to already

Lol I can’t see how anyone can think kylo is threatening when he’s worse than anakin was
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

This was the problem with the jedi order, and why luke thought the jedi must end in TLJ. The notion that all the jedi order is doing is training future sith. Anakin was not the first jedi to turn to the darkside due to their strict beliefs. He was just one of many, that is the crux of the problem here. The repression of the love and forsaking everything you care about to commit to the order, repressing these feelings is the catalyst for becomming evil especially when great harm comes to loved ones you could have protected. The issue I have with the last jedi is that Luke never would have taught the old jedi views to his new order pupils, including kylo ren. Luke had already changed the Jedi order the moment he allowed the love of his father to dictate his actions, he went against yoda and ben (the old ways), and he succeeded. He never would have taught Ben to give up on things he cared about, such as Han or Leia, if Ben was corrupted it would have been on his own, luke would not have been a facilitator (that whole lightsaber igniting scene while kylo was sleeping was so out of character I ignore it), he was not teaching love is bad, since it was love that allowed him to succeed against the emperor. So ya I don't buy any of the Luke character changes in TLJ, Kylo's turn wasn't lukes failure but a choice kylo made. However, much like Anakin, Snoke was in his mind at a young age, playing a similar role as Palpatine. Kylo's turn suggests that some people just turn bad, and nothing you can do can stop that. I can see luke blaming himself a bit for this, because he loves his family but he would never forsake everything he cared about, he wouldn't give up on kylo like he didn't give up on his father (because he succeeded with his father).

Your interpretation of the Jedi, their failures, and why some of them turn is really intriguing, and makes for good reading. But I just don't think any of it is supported enough by the stories and events themselves.

We know of three Jedi in the Skywalker Saga who turned to the Dark Side: Dooku, Anakin, and Kylo. I don't see any reason to believe that any of them turned because of being repressed from sharing loving emotions. There are other catalysts established for why they turned.

Anakin turned because he was manipulated by Palpatine, and paranoid about his wife dying. Also, there seems to be an implication that Anakin was always destined to serve his dark role and purpose. He was "created" . . . somehow . . . without being born in a conventional way. His destiny as a turning point in the "balance" of the Force is something that may have needed to happen. And his turn wasn't an objection to the Jedi Order, and its precepts. But the fact that no one can seem to agree on what the actual driving force was for his turn to the dark side is a perfect summation of why ROTS failed to give a worthy cinematic version of Anakin becoming Vader.

Kylo turned because Snoke had been corrupting him for years. Snoke preyed upon the grandson of Anakin, much the same as Palpatine had done two generations earlier. Maybe the Skywalker bloodline was the reason. Perhaps Anakin's "unique" origin makes his lineage susceptible to being drawn to the dark side. Maybe the Skywalkers belong to the Force. Either way, Kylo's turning wasn't as a rejection of the Jedi philosophies. And I'm sure we'll learn more about it in December.

And Luke's view of the Jedi in TLJ was predicated on their hubris, and their monopolization of the Force - as if they were the only ones worthy to wield and teach the ways of the Force. It led them, and him, to fail students whose powers became too big of a temptation not to use for selfishly independent ambitions. Hubris and arrogance were what Luke thought was wrong with the Jedi Order by the time we catch up with him in TLJ.

Luke didn't "give up on Kylo" as much as he tried to find a way to end the cycle that he himself had become a part of. Jedi would train these good people, show them how to use all of these incredible powers, and then fail to recognize how those powers could be used to serve the Dark Side. The Jedi were creating weapons of mass destruction. They were arming the Dark Side with powerful tools of murder and mayhem. He tried to end it. He tried to take himself out of the equation, and trust that a new answer (by way of the Force not being exclusively in the hands of the Jedi) would solve the problem better. Yoda showed him that he had taken his culpability too far, though, and given up on Jedi value unnecessarily. In the end, Luke paved the way for a new and modified version of the Jedi going forward. He realized their value, and chose to help them continue (through Rey).

You make it seem like Luke thinks there's something fundamentally wrong with the Jedi philosophy. He doesn't. He just realized that there were problems with the Jedi Order, but that it's ultimately better to continue trying to tweak it than give up on it entirely.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

What an epic last few pages great contributions from those ripping the PT to shreds. :lol

I’m crying reading khev’s “Keep people from dying” reaction....like why the hell are you talking like a mentally disabled 12 year old :lol holy crap lol

Vader’s Toht shrill :lol

a-dev’s terrible 2’s tantrum :lol

Reefer telling Wor-Gar to use my NOOO for his avatar. :lol

ajp kicking ass because he’s out of bubble gum :lol

God I needed these last 4 pages lol
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Lol nobody is ripping anything to shreds. Justvsaying the same old crap while ignoring the problems of the ST. Your hate for the pt sounds exactly like the the people who hate these movies lmao. It’s like we argueing about the bad Batman movies. The last Jedi is Batman and Robin and rots is tdkr
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

What an epic last few pages great contributions from those ripping the PT to shreds. :lol

I’m crying reading khev’s “Keep people from dying” reaction....like why the hell are you talking like a mentally disabled 12 year old :lol holy crap lol

Vader’s Toht shrill :lol

a-dev’s terrible 2’s tantrum :lol

Reefer telling Wor-Gar to use my NOOO for his avatar. :lol

ajp kicking ass because he’s out of bubble gum :lol

God I needed these last 4 pages lol

:lol :lol

Prequel hate surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the fandom together, lol.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

:lol :lol

the Last Jedi hate surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the fandom together, lol.

Fixed.. i dont hate the prequels they are crappy movies with rots being the best of the bunch. But last jedi is bad too, and people saying that they like rots better isnt neccesarily a glowing endorsement, its just not nearly as bad as tlj for alot of reasons, but mainly because it doesnt tarnish luke, leia or han, OT comes out unscathed. For the record, I like TFA better than all the prequels but last jedi ruined any of that momentum and positive goodwill for me.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Fixed.. i dont hate the prequels they are crappy movies with rots being the best of the bunch. But last jedi is bad too, and people saying that they like rots better isnt neccesarily a glowing endorsement, its just not nearly as bad as tlj for alot of reasons, but mainly because it doesnt tarnish luke, leia or han, OT comes out unscathed.

O yea definitely. As I said. It’s like comparing the worst Batman films. Tdkr and Batman and Robin. Rots was bad and could of been better but I enjoyed the hell out of it and felt emotion towards characters. It’s a bad movie but I love it. TLJ is just a bad movie with nothing to save it imo. It’s boring and tired and there is nothing memorable about it except the hate it got
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I enjoyed your posts as well ironwez lol

vlcsnap-2019-03-22-21h41m59s713.jpg

:monkey3

Hmm, will a Titanic reference stay afloat in here...
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

:lol :lol

Yeah what was he expecting, that Obi-Wan would gasp, drop his lightsaber and put his hand over his mouth, lol. I mean you just spent the last 20 minutes trying to slice Kenobi in half Anakin I think it's pretty well safe to say that hatred was implied, lol.

:lol :lol

I'll agree that that line leaves a LOT to be desired, but cut the guy some slack, will ya? At that moment, his junk was literally on fire.


:lol :lol

:lol :lol

Prequel hate surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the fandom together, lol.

Our hate has made us powerful.

Fixed.. i dont hate the prequels they are crappy movies with rots being the best of the bunch. But last jedi is bad too, and people saying that they like rots better isnt neccesarily a glowing endorsement, its just not nearly as bad as tlj for alot of reasons, but mainly because it doesnt tarnish luke, leia or han, OT comes out unscathed. For the record, I like TFA better than all the prequels but last jedi ruined any of that momentum and positive goodwill for me.

If I take the PT as canon the OT are ruined at the front end.

So these Jedi were a bunch of idiots at best for failing to see what was happening before their eyes with Palpatine and Anakin and morally ****ed at worst - abducting and indoctrinating kids into their way of life - forcing them to be celibate and unattached to anyone, even their parents, for life. This Obi-wan Kenobi is a manipulative, pathological liar, almost nothing he tells Luke actually happened. He makes up a bunch of ***t to get Luke to join him on his mission. This Darth Vader guy might have been a really cool villain, except I saw what he was like before - a whiny petulant child who I wanted to punch in the face. As for Luke and Leia's mother, the less said the better. Actually it's quite surprising Leia had anything to say about her at all. That was a head scratcher.

If I take the ST as canon then the OT becomes retroactively pointless at the back end. Episode VII resets everything back to Episode IV and now there's another new hope who has to get us back to where we were at the end of VI. Wow. Inspired.

So I simply find it best to disregard both PT and ST.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

:lol :lol




:lol :lol



Our hate has made us powerful.



If I take the PT as canon the OT are ruined at the front end.

So these Jedi were a bunch of idiots at best for failing to see what was happening before their eyes with Palpatine and Anakin and morally ****ed at worst - abducting and indoctrinating kids into their way of life - forcing them to be celibate and unattached to anyone, even their parents, for life. This Obi-wan Kenobi is a manipulative, pathological liar, almost nothing he tells Luke actually happened. He makes up a bunch of ***t to get Luke to join him on his mission. This Darth Vader guy might have been a really cool villain, except I saw what he was like before - a whiny petulant child who I wanted to punch in the face. As for Luke and Leia's mother, the less said the better. Actually it's quite surprising Leia had anything to say about her at all. That was a head scratcher.

If I take the ST as canon then the OT becomes retroactively pointless at the back end. Episode VII resets everything back to Episode IV and now there's another new hope who has to get us back to where we were at the end of VI. Wow. Inspired.

So I simply find it best to disregard both PT and ST.

a-dev your last sentence is so depressingly on point and accurate.....

BUT.........

Han Luke and Leia are in the ST therefore....

You are going down a path I can not follow.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

[emoji38] [emoji38]




[emoji38] [emoji38]



Our hate has made us powerful.



If I take the PT as canon the OT are ruined at the front end.

So these Jedi were a bunch of idiots at best for failing to see what was happening before their eyes with Palpatine and Anakin and morally ****ed at worst - abducting and indoctrinating kids into their way of life - forcing them to be celibate and unattached to anyone, even their parents, for life. This Obi-wan Kenobi is a manipulative, pathological liar, almost nothing he tells Luke actually happened. He makes up a bunch of ***t to get Luke to join him on his mission. This Darth Vader guy might have been a really cool villain, except I saw what he was like before - a whiny petulant child who I wanted to punch in the face. As for Luke and Leia's mother, the less said the better. Actually it's quite surprising Leia had anything to say about her at all. That was a head scratcher.

If I take the ST as canon then the OT becomes retroactively pointless at the back end. Episode VII resets everything back to Episode IV and now there's another new hope who has to get us back to where we were at the end of VI. Wow. Inspired.

So I simply find it best to disregard both PT and ST.
Accurate, but in defense of the ST, history does tend to repeat itself. A Hitler-like individual could pop up again, if one inevitably does, would that then make WW2 pointless?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Hey, I'll agree with you on the vehicles, trooper designs, etc.. the PT and Clone Wars gave us some very cool stuff! The ST is supposed to be a different era and is much farther in the future, so it makes sense that everything is different (more refined and modernized look). It's like comparing modern military stuff to WWII stuff.

Whichever you prefer is all a matter of opinion and taste. I like the way the troopers and vehicles looked more in the PT myself as well. And I do buy way more OT & PT toys than the ST stuff. I'd rather play with cooler looking toys lol

But cool looking characters and vehicles dont make for a better movie. You need actual direction, scripts and acting for that. To say the PT is superior in that regard is pretty far fetched imo.

I never said or meant to imply that having cooler characters and vehicles make for a better movie. Or that the PT is better than the ST because of it. But it certainly helps when it is visually pleasing and memorable, which makes an impact that you actually want to buy merchandise as a collector. There's nothing in the ST for me that makes me say or think it's cool looking. Just boring designs lacking in imagination when compared to the PT. Nearly everything we saw in the PT was far removed and very different than the OT, yet resonated with most fans just the same.

And as far as the ST being in a different era? Most of the stuff is still the same as in the OT. Basically same X-Wing's & Tie Fighter's, Just slightly modified. Even the Star Destroyers are basically the same. The only new designs I even remember were the bomber (which is still similar in shape to a B-Wing), Rey's speeder thing, and the speeder things that fly on salt. And they weren't very memorable. Even Snokes big ship was just a boomerang. And the Death Star became a planet. They just tried to make things bigger rather than better.

As Reefer Shark pointed out, I don't think anyone will disagree with your point from a merchandising standpoint. But is selling action figures, or calling a costume "cool," how to properly prioritize the goals in making a film? Wait . . . are you actually George Lucas!? ;)

You may think that removing Kylo's mask was a bad idea in terms of selling toys, but that's precisely the problem with the PT vs. ST arguments. From my perspective, removing Kylo's helmet allowed Adam Driver to deliver a much more impactful acting performance. Overall, that acting helped Kylo become a more compelling character. A lot of that was made possible through not having a mask over his face.

Yeah, Vader's mask worked on all levels - but that's because Vader's character was supposed to be shrouded in mystery, and portrayed with inhuman levels of cruelty. Vader's mask served an actual story purpose. Kylo, on the other hand, was established right away as Han and Leia's son. So, what story purpose would it serve to keep his helmet on instead of showing the Ben Solo aspect of Kylo Ren (and allowing Driver to deliver a fuller performance)?

Vader did just fine with a mask over his face. James Earl Jones voice over for me was just as impactful to anything Adam Driver did or said as Kylo Ren. They humanized Kylo Ren right away by removing his mask. He no longer seemed evil or villainous like Vader. But a spoiled 30 year old throwing temper tantrums. It diminished his presence and authority as the bad guy. No one had any feelings of remorse for Vader until the end in ROTJ when he saved Luke. With Kylo, right away your not sure if your supposed to like and support him or clearly see him as the villain (and Hux literally went from being an Ominous Commander in TFA to slapstick comedy in TLJ). And I guess some can take that as a positive, but this is Star Wars. A space fantasy and fairy tale that's supposed to be good vs evil, light vs dark. When you distort and blend those lines, it's no longer the same story. There's a reason why it endured for 40+ years. Simplicity of storytelling. The ST changed that. I don't want Star Wars to become realistic. There's plenty other stuff for that.

TLJ is the only movie I don't like. I don't love the PT, but for me it is far more memorable and has many more cool moments than anything in the ST. TFA was Ok, and I actually liked Rey, but TLJ just turned it into a letdown for me. I can't watch it anymore as I know what comes next. As much as I cringe at some of the stuff in the PT, nothing stops me from watching them every now and again. Nothing will bring me to be able to watch TLJ again. I tried. I can't even get past the opening scene. Just so much bad for me.

TLJ is literally dead last for me out of 10 movies.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

:lol :lol




:lol :lol



Our hate has made us powerful.



If I take the PT as canon the OT are ruined at the front end.

So these Jedi were a bunch of idiots at best for failing to see what was happening before their eyes with Palpatine and Anakin and morally ****ed at worst - abducting and indoctrinating kids into their way of life - forcing them to be celibate and unattached to anyone, even their parents, for life. This Obi-wan Kenobi is a manipulative, pathological liar, almost nothing he tells Luke actually happened. He makes up a bunch of ***t to get Luke to join him on his mission. This Darth Vader guy might have been a really cool villain, except I saw what he was like before - a whiny petulant child who I wanted to punch in the face. As for Luke and Leia's mother, the less said the better. Actually it's quite surprising Leia had anything to say about her at all. That was a head scratcher.

If I take the ST as canon then the OT becomes retroactively pointless at the back end. Episode VII resets everything back to Episode IV and now there's another new hope who has to get us back to where we were at the end of VI. Wow. Inspired.

So I simply find it best to disregard both PT and ST.

Your right about the Jedi being a bunch of idiots, thankfully the OT didn't focus on those idiot Jedi. Han, Luke and Leia were the main characters. Old ben was a liar and a coward, but he tried to make good on his mistake by watching over Anakin's offspring, for the wrong reasons of course but it was still a noble deed. That's the whole point of the story, the jedi failed. Yoda even admitted this
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Accurate, but in defense of the ST, history does tend to repeat itself. A Hitler-like individual could pop up again, if one inevitably does, would that then make WW2 pointless?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Very accurate point as well but I think because they involved the original heroes again it taints their original victory.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Accurate, but in defense of the ST, history does tend to repeat itself. A Hitler-like individual could pop up again, if one inevitably does, would that then make WW2 pointless?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Actually it is more akin to killing Hilter and leaving the Third Richt alone. Basically inviting the Third Richt to come back. They totally made Episode 6 pointless. The Empire was never destroyed just rebranded.
 
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