Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[xipotec]

You are correct in that there are similarities to the ROTJ fight (including dialogue), but it is turned on its head when Kylo turns on Snoke and kills him, and then JOINS forces with Rey to fight the guards and then asks Rey to join HIM. It works so well because of the performances, but also because Kylo finally achieves what Vader couldn't - he turns on his master and becomes the Emperor.

I love Crait because of the white layered on top of the red. It looks amazing and gives subtle clues to what is going on in the Kylo-Luke fight.

And on to that fight, there is a LOT going on that I didn't catch until watching it multiple times. After Luke realizing he made a mistake in not going with Rey, he does the only thing he can - force projection. Kylo even foreshadows this earlier in the film when he first encounters the mind link with Rey. He says "why are we connected? You can't be doing it, the act would kill you." Right there, we get a feel for the severity of the power.

Luke would only do it as a last resort, and he knows that if he doesn't, Leia and the resistance will be killed. So he creates a distraction and it works flawlessly. When Kylo sees him, he immediately becomes blinded by rage, opening fire on him to a ridiculous degree. When Luke is still standing, he looks terrified. Luke even chooses the last image of himself that Kylo saw (dark hair, dark robes).

When Kylo comes down to fight him, it goes into a straight up Kendo style duel like the original Vader vs Kenobi. The scene is BEAUTIFULLY shot with the amber hues against the white ground and windy sunset. It is one of the prettiest shots I've ever seen in a Star Wars film.

Keep in mind Luke's entire point is to buy time for escape, so he has to keep up the ruse as long as possible. But even he is surprised at Kylo's powerful and rage fueled strikes. Kylo swings down (which Luke dodges) and immediately spins to bisect Luke in half (which he has to dodge in an inhuman way). At this point, Luke begins to tear up because he feels the extent of Kylo's hatred. And Kylo is so focused and angry, that he completely ignores all of the clues that it is a trick (Skywalker lightsaber, Luke's non-existent footprints, and his age). Most importantly, Luke acts as a Jedi should in this situation: he never attacks Ben. This is his nephew and he doesn't want to hurt him. In his actions (or lack there of), he is trying to apologize to Ben for jumping to violence that night in his room. It breaks his heart to know that he is the reason his nephew ended up like this.

When Luke senses the resistance is safe and has found Rey, he gives Kylo an ultimatum: if he strikes him down in anger, he will haunt him forever like his father does. He then allows Kylo to strike him and figure out the truth of the ruse. Even when Kylo makes this sliding charge strike, his feet slide across the ground to reveal and long red mark, like a bloody scar across his heart. Its all very symbolic of Kylo's continued descent into darkness and how he severs his family ties.

This is why I think its one of the most layered and meaningful fights. It is Luke's redemption as a Jedi and as an uncle. He is trying to protect his sister from her son and her son from himself. If he were to storm the base and murder his own mother, then he would truly be lost forever. I think Leia is the key to redeeming him and bringing him back to the light, but we will find out next week. When I first saw this fight, it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted Luke to raise his X-Wing, fly to Crait with his green lightsaber, and wreck the walkers and beat Kylo. But what we get here is more true to his character than that. That is what Anakin would've done. But how did Luke defeat Vader and the Emperor? He threw down his weapon and rejected the dark, like a true Jedi. So when he confronts Ben defensively and never attacks he redeems himself for his betrayal and cowardice. And that is why I grew to love this depiction of Luke and ultimately this film. I'm not saying TLJ doesn't have flaws, but there are some outstanding ideas here.

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100% agree. Its one of the reasons I like TLJ.

But you have to consider that many fans just see their boyhood hero, with flaws, and making huge mistakes. And to them , its not acceptable.




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[KerotanFrog]

Umm Vader turned on his master as well not just Kylo just putting that out there lol


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Lol I know, but he had turned back to the light and ended up dying so he never got to fulfill his dark side ambitions. With Kylo, we get to see him at the top of the First Order actually ruling until Palpatine comes in as a third party in the fight between Resistance and FO.

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[KerotanFrog]

100% agree. Its one of the reasons I like TLJ.

But you have to consider that many fans just see their boyhood hero, with flaws, and making huge mistakes. And to them , its not acceptable.




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I get it, but its reasonable to assume people change over 30 years.. And Luke does come back to his true, heroic self, so I thought it was a good arc for him. I wasn't expecting his story to be one of the interesting ones. I thought he'd just be an all-powerful Yoda.

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[FlyAndFight]

I didn't agree with the way they portrayed Luke, but can respect your analysis, KerotanFrog.

But you "younger" fans have to realize that the OT was "Star Wars" for over 20+ years. The EU books simply carried the themes, characters and the whole galaxy forward without altering the deal much at all...

The OT may not be perfect but it laid the foundation for what is to be canon. It is a "classic" in the truest definition. There really had not been anything like it before. Start messing around with it too much just to be different or relevant to today's audience and it only appears, at best, a distraction and at worse, a travesty.

So for this old fogey fan, while TPM was a distraction, TLJ was a travesty in that it wanted to stand out so bad that it not only over-wrote and/or ignored the first sequel film but tried to change the original OT at its core.

 

[jye4ever]

Oh **** Boyega just said he is not a fan of where RJ took TLJ and that TFA and TROS are more in line of what he had hoped for.

**** is getting real now lol


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[YoNoSe]

Oh **** Boyega just said he is not a fan of where RJ took TLJ and that TFA and TROS are more in line of what he had hoped for.

**** is getting real now lol


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Would you say the cast has their knives out?

 

[jye4ever]

Would you say the cast has their knives out?

Man are we are in for a looper or what lol


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[KerotanFrog]

I didn't agree with the way they portrayed Luke, but can respect your analysis, KerotanFrog.

But you "younger" fans have to realize that the OT was "Star Wars" for over 20+ years. The EU books simply carried the themes, characters and the whole galaxy forward without altering the deal much at all...

The OT may not be perfect but it laid the foundation for what is to be canon. It is a "classic" in the truest definition. There really had not been anything like it before. Start messing around with it too much just to be different or relevant to today's audience and it only appears, at best, a distraction and at worse, a travesty.

So for this old fogey fan, while TPM was a distraction, TLJ was a travesty in that it wanted to stand out so bad that it not only over-wrote and/or ignored the first sequel film but tried to change the original OT at its core.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. While I am younger than many posters, as my first theater experience was TPM, I did grow up on the OT and the EU books too. So I do understand the plight of life long fans. I consider myself one as well. But going into Disney Star Wars with a positive and open perspective, I get that they wanted to their own thing and not just remake the old books. It is kind of the pitfall MCU films find themselves in every movie; fans know what is supposed to happen, so how much can deviate? Whereas with Star Wars, while Lucas never disavowed the books, he never wrote them either. So going into the Disney era, the only canon works made by Lucas were the films and the Clone Wars show.

So yeah, they took Luke in a completely different direction than what we were all expecting, but as I hope my analysis pointed out, it wasn't a terrible one. There as a great story in there. Luke tried to avoid failure after failing miserably with Ben by not trying at all, but as Yoda points out, failure is how we grow. So even into his 60s and past his physical prime, Luke was still able to learn and make an impact to turn the tide of the war. The familial drama between Luke, Han, Leia with Ben is the core of the story, as the decisions made influence everything. Disney took a lot from the Darth Caedus storyline, which made me happy. So while it may seem like they threw out the EU, they are taking a lot of story beats and incorporating them into the films. I get a lot of fans are upset, but if you take away the preconceptions (as I had to do), there's a lot to enjoy and be excited for.

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[ajp4mgs]

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. While I am younger than many posters, as my first theater experience was TPM, I did grow up on the OT and the EU books too. So I do understand the plight of life long fans. I consider myself one as well. But going into Disney Star Wars with a positive and open perspective, I get that they wanted to their own thing and not just remake the old books. It is kind of the pitfall MCU films find themselves in every movie; fans know what is supposed to happen, so how much can deviate? Whereas with Star Wars, while Lucas never disavowed the books, he never wrote them either. So going into the Disney era, the only canon works made by Lucas were the films and the Clone Wars show.

So yeah, they took Luke in a completely different direction than what we were all expecting, but as I hope my analysis pointed out, it wasn't a terrible one. There as a great story in there. Luke tried to avoid failure after failing miserably with Ben by not trying at all, but as Yoda points out, failure is how we grow. So even into his 60s and past his physical prime, Luke was still able to learn and make an impact to turn the tide of the war. The familial drama between Luke, Han, Leia with Ben is the core of the story, as the decisions made influence everything. Disney took a lot from the Darth Caedus storyline, which made me happy. So while it may seem like they threw out the EU, they are taking a lot of story beats and incorporating them into the films. I get a lot of fans are upset, but if you take away the preconceptions (as I had to do), there's a lot to enjoy and be excited for.

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Your posts in the last few pages have been really refreshing to read, and I thank you for them! You've also helped me realize that I'm making the mistake of taking my own preconceptions into TROS by overreacting to the plot leaks. Thank you for that perspective as well.

And all that I want to add about the Luke arc is that from the little we know about the George Lucas ST treatment/outline, he would've had an exiled Luke who was disenchanted and grieving. One of the artists who was coming up with concept art for George's story said that Luke was being described as a "Col. Kurtz type hiding from the world in a cave." That seems pretty drastic to me, and the idea of "hiding" is one that I find more troubling than what we got in TLJ - especially with the Apocalypse Now context. I'm not sure it would've ever been what fans wanted.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Oh **** Boyega just said he is not a fan of where RJ took TLJ and that TFA and TROS are more in line of what he had hoped for.

**** is getting real now lol

Knives out.

 

[Sassafras]

Oh **** Boyega just said he is not a fan of where RJ took TLJ and that TFA and TROS are more in line of what he had hoped for.

**** is getting real now lol


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Jye, do u have that gif of a dumpster fire? I dunno, I like Boyega, but I feel like Amazon Priming him a book on "How not to torpedo ur career in a small cutthroat world like the entertainment industry".

Cuba Gooding Jr., just sayin'.

 

[Sassafras]

You are correct in that there are similarities to the ROTJ fight (including dialogue), but it is turned on its head when Kylo turns on Snoke and kills him, and then JOINS forces with Rey to fight the guards and then asks Rey to join HIM. It works so well because of the performances, but also because Kylo finally achieves what Vader couldn't - he turns on his master and becomes the Emperor.

I love Crait because of the white layered on top of the red. It looks amazing and gives subtle clues to what is going on in the Kylo-Luke fight....

.....I'm not saying TLJ doesn't have flaws, but there are some outstanding ideas here.

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Wow, great write-up. Love these TLJ scenes anyway - gorgeous aesthetics - but IMO terrific interpretation. Kudos!

 

[jye4ever]

Jye, do u have that gif of a dumpster fire? I dunno, I like Boyega, but I feel like Amazon Priming him a book on "How not to torpedo ur career in a small cutthroat world like the entertainment industry".

Cuba Gooding Jr., just sayin'.

I?m just too cynical to believe Boyega is doing this on his own I absolutely think it is manufactured in that Disney allowed him to talk about Disney+ in that manner to create publicity and also allowed him to speak just slightly negative about TLJ as a means to show that they?re listening to the fans.

I think he will be fine and yes I also like JB.


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[KerotanFrog]

Your posts in the last few pages have been really refreshing to read, and I thank you for them! You've also helped me realize that I'm making the mistake of taking my own preconceptions into TROS by overreacting to the plot leaks. Thank you for that perspective as well.

And all that I want to add about the Luke arc is that from the little we know about the George Lucas ST treatment/outline, he would've had an exiled Luke who was disenchanted and grieving. One of the artists who was coming up with concept art for George's story said that Luke was being described as a "Col. Kurtz type hiding from the world in a cave." That seems pretty drastic to me, and the idea of "hiding" is one that I find more troubling than what we got in TLJ - especially with the Apocalypse Now context. I'm not sure it would've ever been what fans wanted.

Thanks, I had a lot of fun thinking about it and writing it out. I'm happy to contribute a different perspective to the discussion. I get a lot of people are upset with the leaks too, but its entirely possible that while the leaks are generally true (based on trailers confirming specific plot points), there could be some details that haven't been leaked that will change the impact of a scene.

For example...

Spoiler

The initial leaks said after Palpatine siphons off force power from Ben and Rey, he just throws Ben into an endless pit. The memes have run rampant. More detail came out last week saying after the siphoning, Ben wakes up first and uses the last bit of his life force to heal Rey as she did, and then Palpatine retaliates by killing him. That detail changes the entire scene from a memeable waste of a character to a heartbreaking moment of redemption and sacrifice.

Also, the actual film may come across much better when you add in the performances, music, effects, etc. I personally enjoyed the leaks and they made me more excited for the film.

I typically avoid leaks like the plague, but after going into TFA and TLJ with my own preconceptions and leaving the first viewings disappointed (Luke should've caught the saber on Starkiller Base instead of Rey, the Knights of Ren should've been Snoke's guards, Luke should've used submerged X-Wing and wrecked the FO on Crait), I thought to change it up. This time, knowing the leaks ahead of time, I have a general idea of where the story is going and who shows up where. So now my wild imagination isn't running rampant with possibility and I'm just excited to see it play out/see if there are any details that didn't leak. I'm crossing my fingers for a certain appearance towards the end of Act 3...

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[KerotanFrog]

Wow, great write-up. Love these TLJ scenes anyway - gorgeous aesthetics - but IMO terrific interpretation. Kudos!

Thanks! I'm excited to rewatch it in my marathon. TLJ is scheduled for next Wednesday!

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[a-dev]

How have you been a member since 2014 and have almost 2000 posts yet I've never seen you before?

Good posts whether I can agree or not.

 

[xipotec]

How have you been a member since 2014 and have almost 2000 posts yet I've never seen you before?

Good posts whether I can agree or not.

Believe is or not some people do not talk about SW for years on end....
[emoji23]


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[Wor-Gar]

Incredible but true.

I know a few people who only know how to talk about sports and 'business'. They are called adult men. A rare, and dying, breed these days.

 

[KerotanFrog]

How have you been a member since 2014 and have almost 2000 posts yet I've never seen you before?

Good posts whether I can agree or not.

Haha I stick almost exclusively to the Star Wars figure forum. I just wanted to discuss the movie and wandered into here for the first time this morning.

Thanks for the kind words. Movie discussion isn't as well recieved in the figure threads. Usually turns into ST vs OT arguments.. even the PT fans gang up on ST lol. I love all the films for different reasons, even Solo, TPM, and AOTC!

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[KerotanFrog]

Believe is or not some people do not talk about SW for years on end....
[emoji23]


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Hahah the funny part is this is the exact opposite. I love discussing Star Wars. [emoji14]

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