Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[JAWS]

See that **** right there is what I'm talking about with that scene allowing for all kinds of unholy interpretations. I don't know if that was the intent but I love it!

Maybe Jeepers Creepers Palps *was* the original Sith thousands of years ago. And Plagueis. And Snoke. And...so on. And he resurfaces every 30 or 100 or 1000 years to feed, absorb power, whatever. Until now since he's finally been destroyed.

This goes to my point in my last post.. I like that its not spelled out.

My imagination of the Jedi knights being peace keepers of the Galaxy was much better than what I got in the PT

 

[JAWS]

I persoanlly loved the ending of the film.. Lackluster space battle and all. Everything worked for me. I will take the lackluster spacebattle over the battle on Endor moon any day.. And I don't even hate the Ewoks lol.

I thought the film captured the spirit of ANH in its fun adventure style and its darkness captured the best of the dark moments in the SW saga.

Poe and Finn were so much more interesting in this film then they were in the last. Finn was a little better in TFA but I really enjoyed seeing them all together finally.

I cant even be made at RJ anymore. If it was not for his screw ups then we might not have gotten this film.


Also.. Rey's Back flip of the waves is one of my all time fav shots in all of SW saga.

 

[JAWS]

Anyone else wonder if The Mandalorian and baby Yoda was helping prepare us for the force healing powers on TROS?

 

[JAWS]

For those that don't like this film.... Now I know how others here felt for me when I hated Endgame...

I do feel for all of you.

 

[Khev]

I persoanlly loved the ending of the film.. Lackluster space battle and all. Everything worked for me. I will take the lackluster spacebattle over the battle on Endor moon any day.. And I don't even hate the Ewoks lol.

I thought the film captured the spirit of ANH in its fun adventure style and its darkness captured the best of the dark moments in the SW saga.

Poe and Finn were so much more interesting in this film then they were in the last. Finn was a little better in TFA but I really enjoyed seeing them all together finally.

I cant even be made at RJ anymore. If it was not for his screw ups then we might not have gotten this film.


Also.. Rey's Back flip of the waves is one of my all time fav shots in all of SW saga.

I totally agree about enjoying the mystery of Palps' return and his fleet's origins but that doesn't mean it can't be equally fun to openly theorize about such things. I'm so glad that we can even *have* these discussions with a modicum of validity to multiple and equally cool possibilities. But otherwise I'm with you in being glad that they didn't go out of their way to explain everything.

I have a feeling that the space battle will grow on me (it already is in retrospect) and yes everything else in the finale was just so damn perfect. Like you said it's almost sweeter that because of TFA and TLJ we didn't even think it would be *possible* to achieve such heights so there's the extra bonus of such moments not only being awesome but also a huge surprise. I used to wish that TLJ showed us that Luke's X-Wing was inoperable. Hell no I don't think that any more, lol.

 

[TaliBane]

Welll... t'was the best of ST times, t'was the worst of ST times. I landed somewhere in the middle on this - because there's quite a bit to like but there's a LOT to chuckle/eye-roll at. Hey - it's part of the ST after all!

And... it's 5-6 days since release - are we past spoiler tags? If not lmk.

I have to agree with those who say this is the best movie of the ST - it has kinetic energy, pulp silliness and some actual fun that the other two (for me) sorely lacked, and FINALLY has an antagonistic force that I actually understand and feels like there's major stakes on (as antagonists, the first two had a "torn/confused" young man who sometimes wore a black cape/mask, and an old man/creature who I never really got was supposed to be - "Palps-lite.") I never got that in TFA or TLJ - the creepy sense of real fear of Vader, then Palps, in the OT. Like demons that wanted something. Here you get that, even if it's OT all the way.

This movie also suggested to me - due to some of it finally working dramatically in this movie - that a conflicted Kylo and Rey Sith/Jedi match-up/romance in the face of a powerful, devious puppet master (like Palps in this) could have worked. All that force texting and stuff in TFA and TLJ never really amounted to much at all for me. Here it works better.

I liked some of the adventure in this movie too - I loved that snowy HP-like planet with the stormies going door to door where they meet Zori bliss. Finally a planetary adventure in the ST that I was engaged in.

That's kinda where the positives ran out for me though - this movie is such a total jumble and blur. Way too fast, bordering on incomprehensible at times, often very awkward and cringey (hello Leia) giving way - by the final battle - to just stream-of-consciousness stuff that's at turns awe-inspiring and some of the most chuckle-inducing silliness ever committed to the screen.

While Adam Driver is on fire, really coming of age as an actor this year (and it really shows in this - Ben Solo actually felt different to Kylo and really worked,) it's almost like 3PO emerges best. And any movie that features the lead healing a random giant snake solely to set up a healing power - following the silliest quicksand plotpoint since 1950s Tarzan - you gotta do your best "watchya talkin about Willis" for.

Even though Palps' return was desperately needed by the ST and even sorta-kinda almost works (because he's a great villian and McDiarmid is a great ham) almost EVERYTHING about the Exogol sequences made little sense....

Who all the "Eyes Wide Shut" Sith people were, the test-tube Snokes (clones never feel very SW to me though,) the navigation beacon silliness, the "rules of Sith lightning" (whole other discussion) who all the people were crewing (and designing/building/"conjuring"?) all those thousands of SDs, where/how the DS cannon tech came from, why it was all sitting there "waiting" for so long (years? decades?), why he even needed Rey as a body (seemed to have no shortage,) why the SDs all stayed in formation even under attack, and what the "unknown regions" even were (what makes them different?.) etc etc.... it's a list of dozens of head-scratchers.

Then there were the "echo the OT beats" issues - I mean we already got a beat-for-beat redo of the ROTJ throne room sequence in TLJ - now we get yet another version here, complete with Palps' "come, see for yourself..." view of a rebel fleet being taken down. I mean Palps even says "strike me down" again from what I recall. And earlier Rey's on a ledge, ready to leap as she's told by a black-clad villain that she's Vader's daughter - oops, I mean Palps' granddaughter - and she seems about to yell "Nooo" and jump off when - in comes the Falcon to rescue her just like it did Luke after his own "that's not true, that's impossible" moment...

(and wow - the number of times someone "senses" something in this movie just drove me crazy.)

Even emotional pay-offs like "My name is Rey Skywalker" - while nicely evocative due to the location and a ghost of Luke/Leia - come across as odd because her parents didn't abandon/sell her, they died trying to defend her. Why disown them as her parents? And have a brother/sister as your "parents" is a bit OT Luke/Leia weird (just like that video game-ish scene of young Luke training Leia.) Was Rey's father's last name "Palpatine" (that topic alone opens up a whole host of questions....)?

And... nose-lady got JJ's much-heralded lady-kiss (and nobody noticed she takes that female pilot's hand to head off into the "forest" at the end.)

And did I laugh when Luke's X-wing rose out of the ocean at Ach-to.... fully functioning, complete with helmet! So much discussion focused on how it was clearly inoperable, thereby rendering Luke trapped on the island in TLJ and unable to get to Crait in person. It's even fueled up enough that Rey flies to Exolgol in it. Oops.

All that being said - at least this is likely a ST film that I would watch again. Can't say that about TFA and TLJ.

 

[JAWS]

I totally agree about enjoying the mystery of Palps' return and his fleet's origins but that doesn't mean it can't be equally fun to openly theorize about such things. I'm so glad that we can even *have* these discussions with a modicum of validity to multiple and equally cool possibilities. But otherwise I'm with you in being glad that they didn't go out of their way to explain everything.

I have no problem with that either. That's what I mean.. Its a bit more fun to create some of our own saga to fill in the blanks.. Like we use to with the OT

I have a feeling that the space battle will grow on me (it already is in retrospect) and yes everything else in the finale was just so damn perfect. Like you said it's almost sweeter that because of TFA and TLJ we didn't even think it would be *possible* to achieve such heights so there's the extra bonus of such moments not only being awesome but also a huge surprise. I used to wish that TLJ showed us that Luke's X-Wing was inoperable. Hell no I don't think that any more, lol.

Its amazing how much I almost appreciate RJ and too a lesser extent JJ setting the bar so low with the first two films.

The closest I have come to feeling like this in the theaters as an Adult was when I say Jurassic Park for the first time.

I was a kid again. It was such a great feeling.. I am still riding the high from the film.

I am afraid to watch it again But I did watch the Leia / Han / Kylo scene on YouTube yesterday.. I have a feeling I have nothing too fear with repeat viewings.

 

[Khev]

Welcome to the party TaliBane. Great read.

I mean Palps even says "strike me down" again from what I recall.

Dude I loved that part.

"Skywalker prevailed because of help from his family. The only family you have...is me."

Holy crap.

Luke had "You've failed your highness, I am a Jedi like my father before me."

Rey had "Um, I'm a Sith...like you gramps?"

Even I was all yeah Rey you might as well just give in and strike him down, lol.

That's how you successfully play with those tropes IMO.

 

[Khev]

You guys misunderstood what I was trying to ask, maybe because I wasn't clear. What Im saying is that the Palpatine in ROTSK is not a clone. The one in the prequels and OT WAS the clone, while the REAL Palpatine on life support is the one in ROTSK. That"s why he has no scars and looks like the actor. He"s an ancient Palpatine Apocalypse style, and has been there controlling everything for hundreds of years.

"When you live as long as me you start to see the same eyes in different people."

 

[JAWS]

Welcome to the party TaliBane. Great read.



Dude I loved that part.

"Skywalker prevailed because of help from his family. The only family you have...is me."

Holy crap.

Luke had "You've failed your highness, I am a Jedi like my father before me."

Rey had "Um, I'm a Sith...like you gramps?"

Even I was all yeah Rey you might as well just give in and strike him down, lol.

That's how you successfully play with those tropes IMO.

Khev you need to keep doing some Epic "TLJ" type defending of this film so I can keep loving it more and more

 

[JAWS]

Just making sure you saw that I agree with you about this.

I totally agree about enjoying the mystery of Palps' return and his fleet's origins but that doesn't mean it can't be equally fun to openly theorize about such things.

​

I'm so glad that we can even *have* these discussions with a modicum of validity to multiple and equally cool possibilities. But otherwise I'm with you in being glad that they didn't go out of their way to explain everything.​

I have no problem with that either. That's what I mean.. Its a bit more fun to create some of our own saga to fill in the blanks.. Like we use to with the OT ​

 

[momaw]

Lol Ah Lucas can be funny.

Exactly.

I dont agree with the Jedi Ghost appearing Jye.. I mean maybe it could work.. IDK... It also could have been a bit too cheesy.

I thought the final space battle was fine. Not great but IMO better than anything offered in the ST
​

It worked in Return of the King

You guys misunderstood what I was trying to ask, maybe because I wasn't clear. What Im saying is that the Palpatine in ROTSK is not a clone. The one in the prequels and OT WAS the clone, while the REAL Palpatine on life support is the one in ROTSK. That"s why he has no scars and looks like the actor. He"s an ancient Palpatine Apocalypse style, and has been there controlling everything for hundreds of years.

Some thoughts about the mystery of Palps survival and the lack of answers.

Ya know.. Sometimes in the SW Universe I dont need answers. I can fill in the holes with my imagination.

Lets face it.. Wasnt it better when we had to imagine the Anakin / Obi wan fight. Wasnt it better when we had to imagin Anakins turn to the dark side? Isnt it just fine that we dont know how Luke goes from average Jedi in training in Empire to full blown Jedi in Return?

So with Palps I don't need an answer. Its fine there is some mystery.

As for his new Final Order. I thought maybe it was Clones that helped build and man the ships. Don't know. Not sure I care.

As for Palps announcing his plan to the Galaxy.. I just figure he thought 1. He had the war won and 2. he needed to get Kylo and Rey to confront him.

Sure there are plot holes but lets face it.. We have the crap fest known as TLJ to thank for that. Don't make a film that goes absolutely no where and the filmmakers of the next film wont have to try and cram two movies into one.

I agree with so much of those. The original films left so much to the imagination, it is fitting these do as well. We've become so used to films and tv holding our hands and giving everything that when they don't we cry foul and bad writing.

As to Palps announcement, could be. Hubris has been his constant downfall.

 

[JAWS]

There has been some frustration about Anakin being the chosen one and how the new films affected that.

Personally I thought just by having the ST it brought that prophecy into question.

Having said that.. The fact that it was Anakin's rebellion against the Jedi that allowed him to have a family and it was in the long run his stoping Palps the first time and grandson helping stop Palps the 2nd... I would say that it was Anakin and his choices that brought balance to the force.

 

[JAWS]

It worked in Return of the King

I agree with so much of those. The original films left so much to the imagination, it is fitting these do as well. We've become so used to films and tv holding our hands and giving everything that when they don't we cry foul and bad writing.

As to Palps announcement, could be. Hubris has been his constant downfall.

Yep... Palps got cocky for sure.

 

[Khev]

Just making sure you saw that I agree with you about this.

I did indeed see that.

Khev you need to keep doing some Epic "TLJ" type defending of this film so I can keep loving it more and more

Ha, people can conduct their postmortems for pages on end without being challenged by me. To each their own but like you said I feel for those who felt their expectations were dashed or betrayed by this movie. I even thought about doing another video since the TROS trailers are what prompted me to try out YouTube in the first place but then I thought what would I say? "I freaking loved this movie. The end." Three second video, lol.

I was the one who was just gonna weigh in on some Clone Palpatine theories and then leave it at that but then it was your posts that got me excited about the movie all over again, lol.

 

[Khev]

It worked in Return of the King

I'm glad you mentioned ROTK because I think of that whenever I read people say TROS crammed too much stuff in or what have you since ROTK is the ultimate king of spectacularly bloated finales...and yet it still worked. And I think it did with TROS as well.

Man even the jarring lack of information after the 32 year gap in TFA's scroll now comes across as *deliberately* vague so as to preserve the origins of who was really behind the rise of the First Order.

 

[momaw]

Anyone else wonder if The Mandalorian and baby Yoda was helping prepare us for the force healing powers on TROS?

This is what I thought about that....

To be honest, the Mandalorian reveal of healing powers actually undermined TRoS to me. Palpatine made a point that the convergence of Rey and Ben was a power greater than even he imagined possible - and then he immediately used that power to restore himself. Baby Yoda bringing Greef back from the brink of death really hurt that. If it was just fixing a minor wound, like he tried with the Manadalorian, that wouldn't have been so bad. Rey healing a non-vital wound on the snake reinforces that Jedi can force heal, but it is really just superficial. That in no way hurts previous entries as a plot hole "why didn't X just heal X" because it's no difference than basic medical treatment. Rey and Ben together though, have the power to bring life back from the brink, or even reverse death...but at great cost.

 

[TaliBane]

Welcome to the party TaliBane. Great read.



Dude I loved that part.

"Skywalker prevailed because of help from his family. The only family you have...is me."

Holy crap.

Luke had "You've failed your highness, I am a Jedi like my father before me."

Rey had "Um, I'm a Sith...like you gramps?"

Even I was all yeah Rey you might as well just give in and strike him down, lol.

That's how you successfully play with those tropes IMO.

I asked this earlier (no idea where - there's quite a few threads discussing this,) so not sure if you responded but I haven't been on here much - did you post a fuller thoughts/review? There really needs to be a dedicated "reviews" thread where people can post a longer review of films right after release vs regular discussion that burns thru the pages.

Really hard to find people's thoughts because there's so many pages and I don't have time on here like normal. I have 6-8 hours of baking/food commitments plus 3-4 hours of gift wrapping commitments plus everything else over the next day or so, so won't have much time to chime in here until after Christmas day.

I will be seeing TROS again with another buddy between now and then - my family was with me the first time (my daughter yelled out "oh no!" so loud when Kylo/Rey kissed and my wife was all teary at the lars homestead and Han/Kylo scenes) the first time so hard to be objective.

 

[Asta]

Luke's retreat as a hermit hit a little to close to home for Asta

It actually did, in that it struck a cord with the idea of the Conradian hero. Those men who make mistakes in the civilized world, and seek escape in the dark, savage parts of the world - away from the glare of a society blinded by its rules and ideals. In the darkness they can either fade away, or seek to make amends.


Rey literally stared into the heart of darkness:



As for real life, it's more akin to the reclusiveness of the old Bruce Wayne.

 

[Khev]

I asked this earlier (no idea where - there's quite a few threads discussing this,) so not sure if you responded but I haven't been on here much - did you post a fuller thoughts/review?

Holy crap you're right, there are no less than five SW-related threads at the top of the section right now, lol.

Here were my initial thoughts:

"Overall I was very happy with the movie and the incredible effort made to make sense out of the cluster that was the PT + OT + unexplained 32 year gap + TFA + RJ, lol.

And I'll say right up once again that my #1 fan-fiction wish for the finale ever since watching TFA was to have Rey put on the Vader mask, distract Kylo, then run him through. I never actually thought I'd get that of course but then Leia kind of did that by seemingly appearing in Kylo's mind with a Palpatine-esque hood...which distracted him so that Rey could run him through. Well **** close enough I say.

The Rey/Kylo/Palpatine scenes were fantastic IMO almost straight across the board (though I didn't love showing a massive Sith legion only to have them just stand there and die.) The thing that kind of blows my mind though, and the one thing I thought was an absolutely sure thing, was that they did indeed show the mother of all space battles...and it was kind of unexciting. Um, what?? That's a head scratcher for sure. All right then, expectations subverted I guess, lol.

However I loved almost everything else.

So Ben Solo (not Rey, Luke or Anakin) becomes "the most powerful Jedi" ever by keeping the person he cared about from dying. The Sith legend fulfilled, after the ultimate destruction of the Sith, a Sith legend that could only be fulfilled by a Jedi since it requires the person doing the saving to die. That I wasn't expecting. That was excellent. It really casts those ROTS scenes with Palpatine telling Anakin that together one day they'll achieve that power in a different light since together they *did* achieve that power through their combined grandchildren.

I liked that the mystery of Rey's power was that she was merely a Force conductor and not the most powerful Force user. That's how I saw it anyway. The entirety of the Sith vs. the entirety of the Jedi doing battle through their respective proxies (Palps clone and Rey) one last time.

I liked that Rey wielded the combined sabers of Luke and Leia at the end, a nice remnant of George's original ST where Luke and his twin sister defeated Palps together.

Jannah was silly but thankfully inoffensive due to the briefness of her role. The whole battle on the outside of the Star Destroyer with Finn, Hannah, and everyone just did nothing for me though. Again I'm shocked because I thoroughly enjoyed the first 2/3 of the film and normally the big battle at the end is where all the good stuff happens, hell even AOTC delivered in that regard.

But I can't say enough about the Rey/Palps/Ben Solo stuff. In fact Ben is by far my favorite character of this trilogy now. And I'm very glad that Palps went out on a high note (IMO) after all the goofy faces and flying around he did in ROTS.

Lando was a lot of fun, not the biggest role obviously but you could tell Billy Dee was having a ball.

I liked the surprises this time around, they didn't feel done just to trick the audience or piss us off, I thought they actually made the story more interesting.

The different clones and Snokes in tubes felt very "Dark Empire-ish" to me, which I also really liked.

A nice return to the film's roots there at the very end too.

Overall it's surreal to be here at the end now of all three trilogies and thankfully I think their little hail mary delivered in the end. I see that for several people here it was just the final nail in the tragedy of Disney's ST or what have you but fortunately the stuff that this film got right was for the most part the stuff I was deep down hoping they'd get right regardless of the surprisingly ho hum space battle."

I was trying to be tempered and rationale with my review but all in all I freaking loved the movie.

I will be seeing TROS again with another buddy between now and then - my family was with me the first time (my daughter yelled out "oh no!" so loud when Kylo/Rey kissed and my wife was all teary at the lars homestead and Han/Kylo scenes) the first time so hard to be objective.

Ha. My own daughter was 9 when TFA came out, loved it, 11 when TLJ came out, went to the theater dressed as Scavenger Rey, loved it, but then seemingly grew out of SW *instantly* this year as she turned 13 and started middle school. Now it's all about her Smartphone, Tik Toks, going to the high school football games with her friends, normal teenager stuff really. She begrudgingly went to TROS with me and her 10 year old brother and then just tonight we're at the mall in the Disney Store and walk by some SW stuff and out of the blue she exclaims "Rise of Skywalker was SO good. Are you getting a poster or anything dad? You should."

Which is funny since I already ordered one yesterday.