Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Sassafras]

George has confirmed Anakin was the Chosen One, and current LFL literature says so also.

But I admit the films don't spell that out, so maybe JJ took advantage of that.

Well d*&n always thought that was an unspoken deep statement that the PT was making; that Qui Gon and later Obi Wan had allowed emotion to cloud their judgement somewhat; and they had failed to know that it was too difficult to see into the future that way. E.g. it allowed them to overlook Anakin's flaws/fears until it was too late; but yet they were not wholly wrong either. That was always my interpretation (based on films).

Rey - well, it could've worked - at least for me to believe in the story. But the IMO writing problems with the ST turn it more into feeling like an Appendix a lot of the time. If next year someone announced, hey, we're just gonna reboot the whole ST from scratch I'd be good with it.

To be honest, the Mandalorian reveal of healing powers actually undermined TRoS to me. Palpatine made a point that the convergence of Rey and Ben was a power greater than even he imagined possible - and then he immediately used that power to restore himself. Baby Yoda bringing Greef back from the brink of death really hurt that. If it was just fixing a minor wound, like he tried with the Manadalorian, that wouldn't have been so bad. Rey healing a non-vital wound on the snake reinforces that Jedi can force heal, but it is really just superficial. That in no way hurts previous entries as a plot hole "why didn't X just heal X" because it's no difference than basic medical treatment. Rey and Ben together though, have the power to bring life back from the brink, or even reverse death...but at great cost.

Well, for me it's true like some earlier posts allude to - I readily accept that baby Yoda is Force powerful - there's the memory of Yoda; and this seems to be a rare race (u never see many of them unlike others) that I accept - and some possible others - that are just born with extraordinary abilities.

For me the whole healing thing with Rey, on the other hand, just felt like they were just puffing her up more, and it didn't work for me. Probably going all the way back to the first film, e.g. no foreshadowing of her abilities. No training. Just stuff I roll with re the ST but doesn't mean I buy it. Kylo at least had had training and, after all, is a Skywalker. Luke would've probably floated his baby toys around to amuse him.

 

[Wor-Gar]

the prophecy was never understood correctly in the first place

That, or the movies weren't put together correctly.

 

[Wick]

 

[ajp4mgs]

And this is the problem with a lot of the online discourse regarding Star Wars (and pretty much anything) as a whole now. It's not that there aren't good points, or that criticism isn't valid, it's that there is a focus on being hateful, nasty and insulting to anyone who immediately doesn't "side" with the opinion being expressed. As a result, any good arguments are easily dismissed as just another "butt hurt rant" or "apolagist rant".

I get that so many are angry, hurt and feel betrayed. And if all they want to do is lash out, I get that too. No one was ever converted to another way of thinking by being insulted though.

Case in point I won't even watch this video now because I dismiss it as just another rant with no purpose other than to make the ranter feel better.

I am looking forward to the Mr Plinkett review though. Agree with the points or not, those are funny.

I confess that I click on the links to these YouTube movie vids for laughs from time to time, but I find them to be lowest-common-denominator cinema critique and general movie discussion. YouTube is creating an entire generation where too many people don't know how to assess films on their own until they can form their opinion based upon what so-and-so says. That's truly pathetic. The videos themselves wouldn't be a problem if there weren't so many sheep following them.

But but - and not being up to speed with the lore - anyway tho just based on the movies IMO thought that was the thing - Anakin WASN'T the Chosen One. Not the way anyone thought. Yoda even alludes to whether the prophecy was correct or really being understood. Anakin DID bring balance to the Force but it would be ultimately through Luke and Leia. E.g. the prophecy was never understood correctly in the first place but only Yoda really suspected there were deeper undercurrents.

At least that's the way I always interpreted the saga e.g. in effect Luke was the Chosen One, in the end. Unless u accept Rey, which personally, OK, the movies were gonna try to make her an icon, but IMO for me it just doesn't work as well as the farm boy hidden from his father.

George has confirmed Anakin was the Chosen One, and current LFL literature says so also.

But I admit the films don't spell that out, so maybe JJ took advantage of that.

I think that the Lucas films *do* make it clear that Anakin was the Chosen One. It wasn't Luke who terminated Palpatine (and ended the Sith lineage); it was a redeemed Anakin Skywalker. Luke was no match for Palps. The emperor was handing him his ass at the end of ROTJ. Luke's role and destiny was totally different. Anakin was the ultimate hero who overcame the seduction of the easy path (the dark side) in order to return to the light and bring balance to the Force.

You guys may disagree with this, but I think that we can interpret Anakin's rejection of the Jedi in the PT as the first step to bringing balance. The Jedi Order had lost its way and was positioning itself as a military agency. Anakin helped end that bastardized version of the Jedi (and of the whole light side of the Force). Then he ended the Sith in the OT. Those were two necessary steps to returning balance to the way it was before Sidious/Palpatine.

Palps was the dark side getting way too powerful. So powerful that even the Jedi lost their way and purpose. Anakin was the being birthed by the Force itself to be the corrective measure to both problems. Even Anakin fathering Luke and Leia was a way for the Chosen One's progeny to restart things after he had brought balance. They were supposed to learn from the failures that created the dark times, and build something better from the lessons learned.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

I actually agree with your assessment of Anakin, ajp. The dialogue between Obi-Wan and Anakin at the end of ROTS just before they fight got me thinking that. When Obi says the Sith are evil and Anakin replies that the Jedi are evil from his point of view.

 

[Sassafras]

Just got back from seeing it. And honestly, not bad at all.

Not terribly amazing either. And I wish the basics of Palpatine and his new sith order was set up a bit better. And there's also that dangling plot thread about what Finn wanted to tell Rey. Im also not a big Kylo/Rey fan so I wish they hadn't gone through with that one.

But overall probably the most solid of the three and not a bad conclusion to this story. While it does feel a bit "too little, too late" considering this film didn't have a lot to work with, its at the very least a pleasant surprise to see them stick the landing.

To me that was impressive, most impressive. It's like watching Rocky Horror's Frankenfurter line "I see you tremble with anticip........." but then he never finishes. EVER. And this is a major film costing insane amounts of money.

But no worries, there's always the Disney+ version where that gets fixed.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Anakin replies that the Jedi are evil from his point of view.

Its the fact he has to say "from my point of view" ... just so bad.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

Its the fact he has to say "from my point of view" ... just so bad.

Then you truly are lost.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I actually agree with your assessment of Anakin, ajp. The dialogue between Obi-Wan and Anakin at the end of ROTS just before they fight got me thinking that. When Obi says the Sith are evil and Anakin replies that the Jedi are evil from his point of view.

The corrupted values of the Jedi during that era was definitely an intentional story point that Lucas plotted out. Because of that, we can then view Anakin's destiny as one designed to restart that too in order to restore balance in a way that returns things to how they used to be (and are meant to always be). If we view it that way, then Luke and Leia were the ones who were supposed to build upon the new path forward, still preserving the legacy of their father - the Chosen One.

I don't think it means that "balance" represents eradicating all evils; I believe it means just having the righteous (the Jedi) stay truly righteous and perfectly able to keep evil from having too strong of a grip in the order of things. Balance still means death and decay, not just life and prosperity; but these things work in harmony. Palpatine's power and reign took things completely out of that balanced state.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Palps is like a sun flare of evil.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

The corrupted values of the Jedi during that era was definitely an intentional story point that Lucas plotted out. Because of that, we can then view Anakin's destiny as one designed to restart that too in order to restore balance in a way that returns things to how they used to be (and are meant to always be). If we view it that way, then Luke and Leia were the ones who were supposed to build upon the new path forward, still preserving the legacy of their father - the Chosen One.

I don't think it means that "balance" represents eradicating all evils; I believe it means just having the righteous (the Jedi) stay truly righteous and perfectly able to keep evil from having too strong of a grip in the order of things. Balance still means death and decay, not just life and prosperity; but these things work in harmony. Palpatine's power and reign took things completely out of that balanced state.

That was really the Trilogy I was hoping would get made and, to some degree, expecting to see even after seeing TFA. Luke and Leia, with the help of Rey, having to go up against another Sith power that was building again. The group having to maintain balance in the force while training a new line of Jedi that would keep to the original idea of the old Jedi order.

 

[ajp4mgs]

That was really the Trilogy I was hoping would get made and, to some degree, expecting to see even after seeing TFA. Luke and Leia, with the help of Rey, having to go up against another Sith power that was building again. The group having to maintain balance in the force while training a new line of Jedi that would keep to the original idea of the old Jedi order.

Well, after seeing TFA tell us that Luke failed to start a new Jedi Order that avoided the mistakes of the past, and that Leia couldn't maintain a system of government/order that would prevent another Imperial reign, I lost a lot of hope. As you may know if you've read these movie threads, I thought that TLJ tried to correct that, and it worked for me in renewing my faith that this ST would end in preserving Anakin's legacy.

Luke acknowledged that he repeated the mistakes that arrogance and hubris created in the past, and then Yoda reminded him of the proper way forward. Rey could still be the building block of the righteous way forward if he showed her (and the good people in the fight) some faith and inspiration. And Anakin's grandson had all the power to shape the galaxy in either Vader's image or in Anakin's. I thought that's where we were going. I thought the correction to TFA was warranted, and the proper way forward.

Then TROS happened. Rey was a Palpatine who was suddenly losing control and shooting lightning from her hands. Anakin was no longer the Chosen One. Palpatine and the Sith had never been defeated. I just can't understand why it needed to go back to Super Rey and ignoring Anakin's legacy. That's why the ST is no more for me; not my canon.

 

[jye4ever]

They sure destroyed all those star destroyers in record time lol



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[ajp4mgs]

They sure destroyed all those star destroyers in record time lol



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What was even more impressive was Palpatine's "guided-missile" lightning that stretched out for miles only targeting Resistance ships.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

Well, after seeing TFA tell us that Luke failed to start a new Jedi Order that avoided the mistakes of the past, and that Leia couldn't maintain a system of government/order that would prevent another Imperial reign, I lost a lot of hope. As you may know if you've read these movie threads, I thought that TLJ tried to correct that, and it worked for me in renewing my faith that this ST would end in preserving Anakin's legacy.

Luke acknowledged that he repeated the mistakes that arrogance and hubris created in the past, and then Yoda reminded him of the proper way forward. Rey could still be the building block of the righteous way forward if he showed her (and the good people in the fight) some faith and inspiration. And Anakin's grandson had all the power to shape the galaxy in either Vader's image or in Anakin's. I thought that's where we were going. I thought the correction to TFA was warranted, and the proper way forward.

Then TROS happened. Rey was a Palpatine who was suddenly losing control and shooting lightning from her hands. Anakin was no longer the Chosen One. Palpatine and the Sith had never been defeated. I just can't understand why it needed to go back to Super Rey and ignoring Anakin's legacy. That's why the ST is no more for me; not my canon.

I didn?t much keep up with the thread after TLJ so I missed all of that.

TLJ is where I had lost interest in it though. For me, after seeing TFA, I thought they?d follow that story line in TLJ. Luke would train Rey, Snoke would finish Kylo?s training, we?d see further into what the First Order was doing to youngsters like Finn and why he was so special, Snoke?s identity would begin to fill in but wouldn?t be fully revealed yet and so on. It never really removed hope for a proper Jedi order to be part of the story. I personally didn?t see anything in TFA that needed correcting and definitely didn?t see anything in TLJ that contributed to a coherent storyline but instead broke down a good start and after that it really derailed the whole trilogy for me.

TROS is simply poorly done overall but considering what?s happened prior to it it?s no wonder it isn?t a fitting end. I?ve removed it all from my personal canon also.

 

[Khev]

They sure destroyed all those star destroyers in record time lol

Too bad Charlton Heston isn't still alive. When the FO Commander asked how Lando could have gathered so many ships he could have yelled "The Rebel Fleet is people!!"

 

[momaw]

Well, after seeing TFA tell us that Luke failed to start a new Jedi Order that avoided the mistakes of the past, and that Leia couldn't maintain a system of government/order that would prevent another Imperial reign, I lost a lot of hope. As you may know if you've read these movie threads, I thought that TLJ tried to correct that, and it worked for me in renewing my faith that this ST would end in preserving Anakin's legacy.

Luke acknowledged that he repeated the mistakes that arrogance and hubris created in the past, and then Yoda reminded him of the proper way forward. Rey could still be the building block of the righteous way forward if he showed her (and the good people in the fight) some faith and inspiration. And Anakin's grandson had all the power to shape the galaxy in either Vader's image or in Anakin's. I thought that's where we were going. I thought the correction to TFA was warranted, and the proper way forward.

Then TROS happened. Rey was a Palpatine who was suddenly losing control and shooting lightning from her hands. Anakin was no longer the Chosen One. Palpatine and the Sith had never been defeated. I just can't understand why it needed to go back to Super Rey and ignoring Anakin's legacy. That's why the ST is no more for me; not my canon.

I didn?t much keep up with the thread after TLJ so I missed all of that.

TLJ is where I had lost interest in it though. For me, after seeing TFA, I thought they?d follow that story line in TLJ. Luke would train Rey, Snoke would finish Kylo?s training, we?d see further into what the First Order was doing to youngsters like Finn and why he was so special, Snoke?s identity would begin to fill in but wouldn?t be fully revealed yet and so on. It never really removed hope for a proper Jedi order to be part of the story. I personally didn?t see anything in TFA that needed correcting and definitely didn?t see anything in TLJ that contributed to a coherent storyline but instead broke down a good start and after that it really derailed the whole trilogy for me.

TROS is simply poorly done overall but considering what?s happened prior to it it?s no wonder it isn?t a fitting end. I?ve removed it all from my personal canon also.

Great stuff guys.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

It’s fascinating to me to read ajp’s opinions on the trilogy. It sounds like we both had similar expectations for it but have almost polar opposite takes on TFA and TLJ and which movie caused it to go off track.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

They sure destroyed all those star destroyers in record time lol



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Yes, the great Palpatine made thousands of ships that are all stuck in one place and have a giant sized flaw underneath that causes them to blow up if hit once by any ship.

 

[rayeknor]

It could have worked. It really could if it was not this rushed. I dont remember the last time I saw a movie feeling as rushed as this one and it made it a wreck. The return of the king did okay in theatres, another thirty minutes of storytelling not indiana jones adventuring could have made IX a good movie but nah, gotta stick to the movie industry formula charts.

What a dumpster fire, I was honestly rooting for palpatine so hard at the end even tho I knew it was futile.
Visually good piles of crap movies so far, it all is so far except Force awakens and rogue one. George himself said it best - the job is at its core to have people feel good when they leave the theater, and even better if you instill a top of wonder on top. The prequels had me bored for brief intervals at worst, 8 and 9 both had me laughing out loud in the theater at how effectively the stupidity yanked me out of the experience.

If execs at Di$ney go hands off and go manage and let directors and screenwriters make movies without butting in maybe we'll get to see some good star wars movies in the future, if not it will keep raining mammoth priced mediocre productions. The whole Disney killing art thing is damn true.