Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Asta]

as i said a few days ago, i laughed so hard during tros when that x-wing wasn't even this water logged, barely operable ship - it was perfect, had a helmet all ready, fueled to fly a gazillion miles and its tracking beacon working at 100%.

acch-to water can be used as alternative x-wing fuel.

 

[jye4ever]

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Obviously I was being a facetious ass about the fuel but sorry that I don?t stay up at night losing sleep over bombs in TLJ dropping straight down in zero gravity because my imagination clearly understood that when the bombardier activated the bombs with the click of a switch and they all turned red that instantly conveyed to me that SW logic was being applied so ignore the science and enjoy the drama in the scene.

If you want science go watch that Star Trek crap.


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[Khev]

I went from PT apologist to TFA apologist to TLJ hater to, I guess, RoS apologist even though I acknowledge it?s a mess.

TROS is the Jackson Pollock of SW. Luckily I see fluency and art in the beautiful mess while others see the random splashings of a two year old, lol.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

It just goes to show you that arguing out this stuff is pointless - 12-18 months ago, so many people on here were swearing that it was SO obvious that the submerged x-wing was an inoperable wreck, as a way to explain why Luke couldn't go to Crait physically, thereby having to do the force holo projection gag.

I created this pic to show how the artwork and what was onscreen in TLJ differed significantly, yet everyone pointed to that source book showing the x-wing's wing being used as Luke's door! And people were mockingly saying "oh, don't tell me - you expected Luke to put his hand out and raise the x-wing - just like Yoda and as the perfect mentor/jedi-megastar (ie and go save the day on Crait)... right?"

And then, in TROS.... he does just EXACTLY that.

As I said a few days ago, I laughed so hard during TROS when that x-wing wasn't even this water logged, barely operable ship - it was perfect, had a helmet all ready, fueled to fly a gazillion miles and its tracking beacon working at 100%.

I remember this argument very well. People defending Johnson's portrayal of Luke arguing that he couldn't leave the land of porgs because there was "no way" that X-wing could fly.

As an aside I really hate Rey now. Never in the history of cinema has there been a more ridiculous hero propped up entirely by character theft, retconning, and agenda. Disney destroyed the story and mythos of the OT on screen, a trilogy that has remained pop culture relevant for 40 years in the name of mary sue Rey and a trilogy nobody will give a damn about in less than 5 years. Proof that if you have five billion dollars you can destroy just about anything you want.

 

[Asta]

Obviously I was being a facetious ass about the fuel but sorry that I don?t stay up at night losing sleep over bombs in TLJ dropping straight down in zero gravity because my imagination clearly understood that when the bombardier activated the bombs with the click of a switch and they all turned red that instantly conveyed to me that SW logic was being applied so ignore the science and enjoy the drama in the scene.

If you want science go watch that Star Trek crap.


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Khev's Jackson Pollock is a great analogy for the ST. You can throw paint at a piece of paper and some will laud it as art.

Star Wars is fantasy, but fantasy is only good when it obeys the laws of its own universe. Tolkien wrote that at some point.

Otherwise it's just a collection of disconnected dreamlike ideas that have no meaning of their own. That's okay for William S. Burroughs and his cut up and paste technique, but it's not what Lucas started when he set out painting a universe.

The Sequel Trilogy was the result of crisis management. It was born out of desperation rather than love. They just kept throwing pot after pot of paint, so that TROS even splattered over the canon of TLJ.

Hence it's a mess rather than a carefully composed landscape.

 

[a-dev]

Probably the most muted reaction I've ever had for a Star Wars film. I really just didn't care about anything that was happening and I have pretty much nothing else to say about it one way or another.

I still think the PT suck but to me they have more validity as stories. Would that place them higher in my personal rankings by default? I guess it should...

 

[SvenDokki]

If you judge that way, then if Disney makes more horrible Star Wars films even worse than these, then you will love the sequel trilogy right?

 

[Khev]

Abrams confirmed that in a deleted scene the Resistance ground licker from Crait goes to Ach-To, sips some of the ocean, smiles and says "fresh."

 

[Otomofan]

It just goes to show you that arguing out this stuff is pointless - 12-18 months ago, so many people on here were swearing that it was SO obvious that the submerged x-wing was an inoperable wreck, as a way to explain why Luke couldn't go to Crait physically, thereby having to do the force holo projection gag.

I created this pic to show how the artwork and what was onscreen in TLJ differed significantly, yet everyone pointed to that source book showing the x-wing's wing being used as Luke's door! And people were mockingly saying "oh, don't tell me - you expected Luke to put his hand out and raise the x-wing - just like Yoda and as the perfect mentor/jedi-megastar (ie and go save the day on Crait)... right?"

And then, in TROS.... he does just EXACTLY that.

As I said a few days ago, I laughed so hard during TROS when that x-wing wasn't even this water logged, barely operable ship - it was perfect, had a helmet all ready, fueled to fly a gazillion miles and its tracking beacon working at 100%.

It couldn't possibly be more obvious that the film-makers have such contempt for the audience and the material that they just threw any and all rules out the window years ago. And it doesn't backfire cause the audience is so desperate to love this stinking turd that they'll just go along with all the rule-breaking as it goes, collectively performing mass double-think so as not to admit that their precious Star Wars movies are built on a shifting pile of ****.

Just like Project Mayhem. They can't make sense of their leader's crazy inconsistencies, but they so desperately need to believe in everything he says....that they just make it work as it goes. Twisting and contorting his words so it fits their religion.

In death.....we have names. HIS name...is Robert Paulsen. His name is Robert Paulsen! His name is Robert Paulsen! His name is Robert Paulsen!!

 

[a-dev]

If you judge that way, then if Disney makes more horrible Star Wars films even worse than these, then you will love the sequel trilogy right?

Not if we're talking Skywalker saga movies. To me it was a 6 film-arc, not a 9 film-arc. So more films would be equally as superfluous as the existing ST as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The Buffinator]

It just goes to show you that arguing out this stuff is pointless - 12-18 months ago, so many people on here were swearing that it was SO obvious that the submerged x-wing was an inoperable wreck, as a way to explain why Luke couldn't go to Crait physically, thereby having to do the force holo projection gag.

I created this pic to show how the artwork and what was onscreen in TLJ differed significantly, yet everyone pointed to that source book showing the x-wing's wing being used as Luke's door! And people were mockingly saying "oh, don't tell me - you expected Luke to put his hand out and raise the x-wing - just like Yoda and as the perfect mentor/jedi-megastar (ie and go save the day on Crait)... right?"

And then, in TROS.... he does just EXACTLY that.

As I said a few days ago, I laughed so hard during TROS when that x-wing wasn't even this water logged, barely operable ship - it was perfect, had a helmet all ready, fueled to fly a gazillion miles and its tracking beacon working at 100%.

I remember this argument very well. People defending Johnson's portrayal of Luke arguing that he couldn't leave the land of porgs because there was "no way" that X-wing could fly.

As an aside I really hate Rey now. Never in the history of cinema has there been a more ridiculous hero propped up entirely by character theft, retconning, and agenda. Disney destroyed the story and mythos of the OT on screen, a trilogy that has remained pop culture relevant for 40 years in the name of mary sue Rey and a trilogy nobody will give a damn about in less than 5 years. Proof that if you have five billion dollars you can destroy just about anything you want.

I wasn't one of those arguing that Luke couldn't use the X-Wing in TLJ because it was a wreck; In fact I never bought that argument. First off, it's not like Jedi Luke was a bad pilot and would have crash landed or anything, so why would it be damaged/unusable? My interpretation was that he sunk it to conceal his presence there from someone doing a simple fly over. I suppose he could have raised it out of the water in TLJ after he opened himself back up to The Force, but IMO by that time the situation dictated that Force Projection was the better strategy. As for it being functional, well I'm just assuming all the seals that keep its systems safe in the cold void of space work equally well under water. That fighter already survived being submerged in a swamp, so I'm just going with it. Plus they probably cut the scene where before Rey left she applied her MSE (Masters in Scavenger Engineering) & did a Millennium Falcon-style "I bypassed the compressor!" fix.

 

[jye4ever]

Abrams confirmed that in a deleted scene the Resistance ground licker from Crait goes to Ach-To, sips some of the ocean, smiles and says "97 Octane."

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[jye4ever]

I wasn't one of those arguing that Luke couldn't use the X-Wing in TLJ because it was a wreck; In fact I never bought that argument. First off, it's not like Jedi Luke was a bad pilot and would have crash landed or anything, so why would it be damaged/unusable? My interpretation was that he sunk it to conceal his presence there from someone doing a simple fly over. I suppose he could have raised it out of the water in TLJ after he opened himself back up to The Force, but IMO by that time the situation dictated that Force Projection was the better strategy. As for it being functional, well I'm just assuming all the seals that keep its systems safe in the cold void of space work equally well under water. That fighter already survived being submerged in a swamp, so I'm just going with it. Plus they probably cut the scene where before Rey left she applied her MSE (Masters in Scavenger Engineering) & did a Millennium Falcon-style "I bypassed the compressor!" fix.

Fans seeking hyper realism in this is hilarious.

If fishman Ackbar can breath in space like he can in water then Lukes Xwing can very well do the damn same thing lol.

Fans confuse things looking lived in and dirty to it having to obey the laws of Star Trek




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[Asta]

To me it was a 6 film-arc, not a 9 film-arc. So more films would be equally as superfluous as the existing ST as far as I'm concerned.

This is the way.

 

[Khev]

Thank you.

Somehow TROS gets a pass for being bloated, muddled etc. but the PT doesn't. People excuse JJ because of the so-called mess RJ left him with.

Degree of difficulty should always be factored into a film's review. That's one reason people were so blown away by IW. Not because it was the must tightly woven narrative ever but rather that the Russos were actually able to weave anything coherent out of the 50 characters they were handed.

And I can easily argue that JJ's task was much more difficult than anything Lucas faced with the prequels (George had rich backstory on a silver platter and largely screwed it up) or the Russos with IW.

Granted, some of it was JJ's own doing (the unexplained 32 year gap, crafting satisfying send-off's for the big three after FAILING to reunite them one last time, etc.) but the majority was not his fault. RJ's decisions with TLJ, trying to tie the ST back to controversial moments of the PT (midichlorians, keeping people from dying, unlimited power), somehow not only making the guy who killed Han Solo not only redeemable but *likable* (I'm blown away at that one) and all while trying to interweave TFA footage of Carrie Fisher seamlessly into the narrative under the cloud of loathing by half the fandom. That can't help your confidence when you know that 50% of the audience has already decided to hate you and whatever you do on principle. Not that such animosity is fully misplaced since JJ himself did briefly join in with the "I think a lot of fans are intimidated by strong female characters" nonsense. So you made that bed for yourself JJ and can't blame RJ, KK, or GL for that one.

Regardless of who was to blame and what the story should have been up to this point I honestly think that TROS is a master class in doing the impossible. This was the hail mary of hail maries and they scored. For me TROS didn't just make the ST (*and PT*) respectable they actually made them satisfying. Did they take the road to get here that I would have chosen? Of course not. But they made it home nevertheless.

 

[SvenDokki]

After this last film, it's just gotten silly to argue Star Wars at all. Clearly anything goes - the directors bend it to do whatever they want. So you can too.

I mean, arguing if an X-Wing can fly - what's the point when everything else fell apart?

I guess if you just enjoy arguing, go for it. To me the whole thing is just sad. I'm really glad we have the Mandalorian - its got its issues too but not even approaching the epic level of ST! Baby Yoda can use his supreme Force power and wipe away the bad aftertaste of the ST - and it can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned!

 

[Khev]

The classic fall of so many sequels in other words - upping the ante - escalation to a point of ultimate absurdity - mileage varying between individuals.

I think the reason I like Rogue One and Solo is they were bound by the OT in most regards whereas, with the ST, Abrams just went nuts with an anything goes attitude.

I wanted to get back to this point for a second because I *don't* think that hyperspace hopping TIE's or Palps zapping the entire Rebel fleet was an example of a sequel taking things "too far." I'm totally fine with them pulling out all the stops and going nuts...when it's the last chapter of the series. It's only *continuing* from here where I think things would be too weird and silly. We saw SW get as zany as it can get so call it a day.

It's no different than me thinking that it's silly for the MCU to have a villain wipe out trillions of lives, then come back and threaten ALL THE OTHER TRILLIONS, and then expect us to get excited for another big bad guy team up movie, lol. Some things just can't be topped.

That said I have no problem with these little side stories about Mando and Obi-Wan that circle back and give us fun little "toy chest" glimpses of other interesting and/or familiar characters.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

For me Episode IX was a good, satisfying ending to the ST.

My brother on the other hand wasn't thrilled about it. Meh...to each their own.

As I told him; "I liked it and it doesn't matter what you think. You didn't like it and it doesn't matter what I think. Let's go grab some brews." And we did.

 

[ironwez20]

look we are the boomers here, this young generation is all over this movie though and Heavens forbid you disagree, they love the fact you need to buy all these extra novels to make the story make sense since they love reading and swallow up everything that?s good about this movie because of star wars, i?m seriously a few minority in that discord server were i try to be rational but nah, they get mad for disney being cowards on the 2 second kiss on screen and rose not having enough screen time.

it?s sickening


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Not a boomer. And I dislike this new franchise also many younger children don?t care for it either. And people my age. It?s just a movie you watch and forget

 

[ajp4mgs]

Not if we're talking Skywalker saga movies. To me it was a 6 film-arc, not a 9 film-arc. So more films would be equally as superfluous as the existing ST as far as I'm concerned.

I'm in the same camp now. For you, the ST was always superfluous because it undid the happy ending of ROTJ. I never saw it that way because I always assumed that someone would make an attempted malevolent power grab in the wake of the Empire. Story writers even drew parallels to the attempted Nazi regrouping in South America. To me, that seemed like a worthwhile story to pursue with Darth Vader's grandson. What would he ultimately do as more power came his way, and how would the Skywalkers of the past play a role? Still a worthwhile extension of the Skywalker Saga to define their ultimate legacy.

It was only TROS that I think totally undermined and undid the entire Anakin arc from the PT to ROTJ. The PT was all about the rise of the Sith, and how the Force had created someone to be the Chosen One who would ultimately end the Sith and restore balance to the Force. TFA and TLJ hadn't undone any of that. In fact, LFL was going out of their way to say that Snoke and Kylo were *NOT* Sith. Palpatine had still been eradicated by Anakin/Vader.

Then TROS comes along and says that the Sith were never defeated. Not only did Palpatine survive, there were *thousands* of Sith Eternal cultists working *the whole time* to build a Sith fleet of death star destroyers on Exogol. So, Anakin did no damage to the Sith. In fact, Palpatine even got stronger, merely inhabited a different body, and manipulated Anakin's grandson. Rey is the one who ended the Sith (maybe). Only *she* can be viewed as the true Chosen One. Everything else was just a setup to Rey bringing balance to the Force. All of GL's movies . . . reduced to being a setup!

And then Rey just steals the Skywalker name to fool fans into thinking that the entire Skywalker Saga of George Lucas wasn't just completely undermined. No thanks. I still haven't seen one single argument for TROS not undoing GL's Anakin arc from 1-6 that has any credibility.