Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[TheDucky]

You're watching the wrong YouTube videos.

So what would have been the "good" version of TROS in your mind then? "Duel of the Fates" by Colin Trevorrow (which synced up with TLJ just fine) or something else?

A fully rebuilt Jedi order led by Grand Master Skywalker, married to Mara Jade, with one son named Ben. A Han Solo that stayed a changed man, New Republic Senator Leia Organs-Solo, kids Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin.

A ST that isn’t the same BS empire vs rebel and a ST that doesn’t ruin the saga.

A ST that finds out Palpatine Galactic Empire was not only to serve his own selfish needs, but to combat a threat from the unknown regions, the Yuuzhan Vong.

Over the course of the movies, Jacen falls to the dark side trying to save the galaxy, thinking it’s the only way to stop the Vong. We see a fully realized Jedi Master Luke kicking ass. We see Anakin Skywalker return in force ghost form, among others. Battle of Coruscant where the New Republic falls. One final battle to determine the fate of the galaxy where it is Jaina vs Jacen.

 

[Khev]

None of that could have been built off of TFA. I was referring to chewblacca's claim that RJ took things off course with TLJ which hurt TROS. So my question was what was the "good" version of TLJ/TROS, not the entire ST.

 

[Khev]

I literally just realized that the ST outline that Lucas himself submitted also threw out the entire previous EU as well, lol. It was George's idea to have Luke be a sad exiled hermit and the story was to focus around two teenagers name Sam and Kira. No reference whatsoever to "Jaina," "Jacen," young Ben, Mara Jade, etc. Throwing out the EU was literally his idea and apparently Disney said all right then so be it. And then by having TROS loosely adapt portions of Dark Empire they actually honored the original EU better than he did, lol.

 

[Neal136]

No...there is another...

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Don't forget me.

I just don't talk about it as much as the rest of you.

 

[ironwez20]

I literally just realized that the ST outline that Lucas himself submitted also threw out the entire previous EU as well, lol. It was George's idea to have Luke be a sad exiled hermit and the story was to focus around two teenagers name Sam and Kira. No reference whatsoever to "Jaina," "Jacen," young Ben, Mara Jade, etc. Throwing out the EU was literally his idea and apparently Disney said all right then so be it. And then by having TROS loosely adapt portions of Dark Empire they actually honored the original EU better than he did, lol.

Source?????

 

[Prime Clone]

Not sure how many versions of the saga Lucas has had, but in one three-trilogy treatment I recently read about, Luke and Leia were never siblings. Luke defeated Vader at the end of the second trilogy but the Emperor still lived. In the third trilogy Luke was sought out by his sister Kira, and they joined forces to overthrow the Emperor (much like the "dyad" in TROS and Luke/Leia teaming up in Dark Empire).

 

[Khev]

Source?????

TFA Art Book, TLJ Art Book, Michael Arndt (original screenwriter Lucas hired to write the ST) and um, the entire internet the last five years. You really aren't on the up and up when it comes to this stuff are you, lol.

 

[Khev]

Not sure how many versions of the saga Lucas has had, but in one three-trilogy treatment I recently read about, Luke and Leia were never siblings. Luke defeated Vader at the end of the second trilogy but the Emperor still lived. In the third trilogy Luke was sought out by his sister Kira, and they joined forces to overthrow the Emperor (much like the "dyad" in TROS and Luke/Leia teaming up in Dark Empire).

Yes the original ST envisioned by George and Gary Kurtz when they were making ESB. That's the ST I always wished they'd made so having TROS basically be a combination of that plus Dark Empire (thereby combining the two single best post-OT stories ever conceived) is one of the reasons I love TROS so much.

They basically used the plot of Dark Empire to get back to the original ST finale. Perfection.

 

[chewblacca]

You're watching the wrong YouTube videos.

So what would have been the "good" version of TROS in your mind then? "Duel of the Fates" by Colin Trevorrow (which synced up with TLJ just fine) or something else?

A version that sets up a villain in the previous two movies and not some “Hey you know what would be cool!” villain that was used for the sake of nostalgia.

 

[chewblacca]

None of that could have been built off of TFA. I was referring to chewblacca's claim that RJ took things off course with TLJ which hurt TROS. So my question was what was the "good" version of TLJ/TROS, not the entire ST.

Also a trilogy that had a full thought out plan, and not something like throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what would stick!

 

[jye4ever]

A version that sets up a villain in the previous two movies and not some ?Hey you know what would be cool!? villain that was used for the sake of nostalgia.

I thought Snoke was the emperor in TFA so i?m good lol


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[Khev]

A version that sets up a villain in the previous two movies and not some ?Hey you know what would be cool!? villain that was used for the sake of nostalgia.

Ah, an aversion to cool things I see. Looks like we have another PT lover here.



Rogue One was two full hours of "hey you know what would be cool" so obviously I'm fine with that being a major consideration in what to put on screen.

 

[chewblacca]

Kiev, now your just reaching. I would think with all the brains, experience, and money behind the makers of the ST they would not finish off 40 years of story with “Hey this would be cool!” They would have a better more creative plan for their 4 billion investment. At the end of ROS they should have had a disclaimer saying “Be sure to read the novelization to have all of your many unanswered questions about what you have just seen explained.”

 

[Khev]

Lol, yes I was messing with you with my first line above. And of course a novelization will provide more info than what was in the movie, that's literally been the case with every novelization for every movie ever made. Do we *need* any more information to follow the events of TROS? Nope.

Emperor Palpatine returns due to cloning and dark magic, reveals that he was behind the creation of both Snoke and the First Order, prepares to get revenge on the Jedi and Rebel Alliance while conquering the galaxy once again, Rey personally confronts Palpatine face to face, reflects his lightning back on him killing him and his followers, the Resistance fleet then destroys his fleet. The end. No additional source material needed to follow the above events which were spelled out in the movie.

Yes there were some odd loose ends like Finn wanting to tell Rey something or geeky Star Wars questions like "but what was the model number of the cloning chamber used to grow another Palpatine body" but none of it was critical information to know in order to understand what the characters needed to do to overcome their challenges and resolve their arcs.

 

[chewblacca]

It’s not a perfect movie, and it has problems. I think it just bothers me a lot that seemingly out of nowhere they bring back Palpatine because hey we need a big baddie for the ultimate jedi to face. Putting him in the ST completely minimizes everything that was done in ROTJ.

 

[ironwez20]

TFA Art Book, TLJ Art Book, Michael Arndt (original screenwriter Lucas hired to write the ST) and um, the entire internet the last five years. You really aren't on the up and up when it comes to this stuff are you, lol.

I think your just reaching so that you can make sense of a franchise that sucks now. Trying to lay blame on Lucas when he had nothing to do with this mess. It?s actually funny the hoops you go through to defend this horrible writing and then turn around and crap on PT which doesn?t compare to this mess of filmmaking and writing.

The biggest thing in writing is show don?t tell and this new trilogy has done nothing but tell, tell , tell and you and somtimes JYE gobble it up like it was all meticulously put together. Come on man. It?s like you convince yourself everyday it doesn?t suck. Even the positivity thread died. Which is kinda funny tbh since people really wanted a safe space from criticizing this. Ajp is gone to. He loved TLJ now he said **** it .

I just seriously enjoy the mental gymnastics. It?s fun to read.

 

[Khev]

It’s not a perfect movie, and it has problems.

Oh man I agree 100% and will never claim otherwise. TROS without a doubt has some of the goofiest things out of any SW movie, lol. As I've said before I see TROS as the SW equivalent of TOD with your ability to enjoy it coming down to the degree in which you forgive or ignore the stuff that's absolutely bonkers, lol.

I think it just bothers me a lot that seemingly out of nowhere they bring back Palpatine because hey we need a big baddie for the ultimate jedi to face. Putting him in the ST completely minimizes everything that was done in ROTJ.

Totally fair assessment. I mean what they did was really a straight B-movie horror trope that we've seen a dozen times in the Halloween and Friday the 13th movies and if that's a dealbreaker for you then there's definitely no saving TROS and I totally get it. But they *also* did that in the Lucas approved Dark Empire which mostly because of the killer artwork I've always really liked AND I also really dig them going all pulpy and into the realm of cheesy slasher movies so to me that stuff is literally a positive, lol. But I'm under no allusions that despite the movie entertaining casual fans and normies that it has really rubbed a great many hardcore fans the wrong way and that with regard to the latter group my take is firmly in the minority.

 

[chewblacca]

So your saying that despite Kathleen Kennedy saying that they had no source material to draw from JJ stoke the idea from a comic based on the series he was trying to finish? The comic did it better.

 

[Prime Clone]

Oh man I agree 100% and will never claim otherwise. TROS without a doubt has some of the goofiest things out of any SW movie, lol. As I've said before I see TROS as the SW equivalent of TOD with your ability to enjoy it coming down to the degree in which you forgive or ignore the stuff that's absolutely bonkers, lol.



Totally fair assessment. I mean what they did was really a straight B-movie horror trope that we've seen a dozen times in the Halloween and Friday the 13th movies and if that's a dealbreaker for you then there's definitely no saving TROS and I totally get it. But they *also* did that in the Lucas approved Dark Empire which mostly because of the killer artwork I've always really liked AND I also really dig them going all pulpy and into the realm of cheesy slasher movies so to me that stuff is literally a positive, lol. But I'm under no allusions that despite the movie entertaining casual fans and normies that it has really rubbed a great many hardcore fans the wrong way and that with regard to the latter group my take is firmly in the minority.

Palps worked in Dark Empire cos he was there from the start, his resurrection was central to the story. Sadly in the ST he was an afterthought/contingency plan.

Glad to see you using the same defence of TROS as I do for the PT (it's B-movie/pulp). If only we could see eye to eye on either!

 

[FlyAndFight]

"I want to believe"...

I read the pro-TROS posts and I'm trying to feel the good side of the Force but simply can't get behind them.

The whole "decision by committee" storytelling (see "Star Wars: High Republic" whiteboard for example..) destroyed the magic worse than the introduction of midichlorians in the PT. One major example, to me, was what was done with Rey. I could not care less about her as a character due to the Mary-Sue issue. I had no problems with any of the acting but they ruined the main protagonist from the get-go. After TFA, I actually cared more about Finn and Poe and how they would develop. Major disappointments there... Tons more but those are my main gripes.

The CGI, Williams soundtrack and the sound effects couldn't save this trilogy. I'm just glad that it's finally over.

I still get a kick following this thread, though. It has definitely provided some great laughs.