Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[Khev]

View attachment 498252

That was indeed a great reference Prime Clone.

 

[abake]

I feel confident his situation will create a strong sympathy vote for him. He will be president.

 

[Prime Clone]

Cheers guys!! :

 

[Khev]

Get this PT lovers, Lucas was planning on retconning Anakin as the Chosen One with his own ST: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-sequel-trilogy-george-lucas-leia-chosen-one/

 

[aussiebottt]

Still sounds better than the crap ST we got from Disney.

 

[Khev]

Prefer whatever you want but no more whining that the ST undermined or betrayed Anakin's legacy as the Chosen One.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

New trilogy is suxors

 

[SwedishHeat]

How is Leia being Supreme Chancellor supposed to bring balance to The Force?

 

[ajp4mgs]

How is Leia being Supreme Chancellor supposed to bring balance to The Force?

It makes no sense. The Chosen One was defined as the one who would bring balance *by destroying the Sith.* That's the added context that the PT gave to Anakin's story which ended with destroying Palpatine in ROTJ.

Redefining "Chosen One" to not encompass anything regarding destroying the Sith would basically retcon key dialogue/exposition from the PT and result in the Jedi seeming even stupider than they already did.

I guess you could make the argument that Leia wouldn't have existed without Anakin, so she'd be an extension of a larger "Chosen One" destiny in destroying the Sith and restoring balance, but that's lame.

It seems the sequels were destined to be pointless regardless of who wrote them. Cash grabs and nothing more, no matter what.

 

[Wor-Gar]

ScreenRant: The fact that Lucas ended up with two different characters fulfilling his Jedi prophecy seems to indicate that he himself couldn?t quite get a handle on his own ideas.

Get out da way, Lucas!


Its perfect fodder for Disney: EVERYONE is the Chosen One!

*Syndrome rubs hands* And therefore, no one is.

 

[ZE_501]

[...] It seems the sequels were destined to be pointless regardless of who wrote them. Cash grabs and nothing more, no matter what.

I discovered this when as a creative exercise, I tried to sketch out an ST I would have been content with.

Turns out that's incredibly hard to do, harder still from 2015 on.

Impossible? Maybe not, but we got what we got.

 

[Khev]

It makes no sense. The Chosen One was defined as the one who would bring balance *by destroying the Sith.* That's the added context that the PT gave to Anakin's story which ended with destroying Palpatine in ROTJ.

Redefining "Chosen One" to not encompass anything regarding destroying the Sith would basically retcon key dialogue/exposition from the PT and result in the Jedi seeming even stupider than they already did.

I guess you could make the argument that Leia wouldn't have existed without Anakin, so she'd be an extension of a larger "Chosen One" destiny in destroying the Sith and restoring balance, but that's lame.

It seems the sequels were destined to be pointless regardless of who wrote them. Cash grabs and nothing more, no matter what.

Welcome back ajp, I was hoping you'd read that!

So...going back to our earlier discussions about the ST. Does this in any way legitimize TROS for you? Now that we know that even George himself was going to make the Chosen One a female wielding Leia's lightsaber?

Hell TROS even validated that Anakin *did* fulfill his prophecy when he himself told Rey to "bring back the balance as I once did." Clearly moreso than Lucas would have apparently. Man there's just no end to the amount of retcons he'd do to his own Saga.

I remember being pissed when he retconned the Saga from being the story of Luke to the story of Anakin. But no it was the story of Leia all along.

At least with the current "Skywalker Saga" we have three separate trilogies with three separate heroes. Sure Rey defeats Palpatine at the very end but only with the help of the heroes from the previous two trilogies (and still needed to be rescued by "the last Skywalker" as Palps called him.)

I am now convinced more than ever that the ST as it is is the best final trilogy that we could have possibly hoped for. Which is convenient since I liked it anyway, lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Welcome back ajp, I was hoping you'd read that!

So...going back to our earlier discussions about the ST. Does this in any way legitimize TROS for you? Now that we know that even George himself was going to make the Chosen One a female wielding Leia's lightsaber?

Hell TROS even validated that Anakin *did* fulfill his prophecy when he himself told Rey to "bring back the balance as I once did." Clearly moreso than Lucas would have apparently. Man there's just no end to the amount of retcons he'd do to his own Saga.

I remember being pissed when he retconned the Saga from being the story of Luke to the story of Anakin. But no it was the story of Leia all along.

At least with the current "Skywalker Saga" we have three separate trilogies with three separate heroes. Sure Rey defeats Palpatine at the very end but only with the help of the heroes from the previous two trilogies (and still needed to be rescued by "the last Skywalker" as Palps called him.)

I am now convinced more than ever that the ST as it is is the best final trilogy that we could have possibly hoped for. Which is convenient since I liked it anyway, lol.

Thanks, Khev. Well, what it does for me is provide a forced sense of realization that TROS probably didn't crap on the story of 1-6 any more than George would've been willing to do himself. In that sense, I guess it softens my opposition to the movie and what we got. But in the broader sense, it's just disappointing that no one (even George himself) cared enough about preserving a cohesive narrative that would tie all films with one singular throughline.

Not only would GL have crapped on Anakin's "Chosen One" role by giving the title (either literally or figuratively) to Leia, he would've crapped on it by bringing the Sith back via Darth Talon (unless she wasn't actually a Sith in his ST; who knows?). That's just weird to me. I can't trust the guy.

What I want more than anything in a story I care about is that there be a point to every chapter that's added to it. It seems to me, whether it be George or anyone else, there's no point to any of the post-ROTJ stories. They're just being told to satisfy nostalgia and cash in on the fans who want more.

Hey, the bottom line is that George's ST probably would've pissed me off as much as his PT did. That's becoming clearer with every new nugget of info that comes out. So I'll just be glad to have enjoyed what I did about the ST that we got. And it didn't delve into microscopic "Whills" controlling everyone. That's a win. Plus, I don't have to be saddled with knowing just how much Lucas would've let me down again. Being let down by JJ is way easier to deal with.

 

[Prime Clone]

the ST as it is is the best final trilogy that we could have possibly hoped for.

A backhanded compliment if ever I heard one - but exactly the same applies to the PT, which is why I accept and actually like it!

 

[Prime Clone]

Speaking of revelations, the more we learn about Jakku the less it seems it's "pretty much nowhere". Site of a secret Imperial research facility (obviously a hangover from one of Rey's many possible origins!), site of the Empire's last stand, and it also just happens to be where the Falcon ended up.

Perfect place to hide the galaxy's last hope! (But no worse than Tatooine I guess...)

 

[xipotec]

Wait didn?t Disney?s most hated exec, say they did use some of GL?s guidance on the story?

If this was one of those ideas, it?s safe to say people who defend GL and dislike the ST need to re-examine the unfettered love they have since it?s a core element of the ST....

Lol, that will never happen,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wor-Gar]

The best takeaway from that Screenrant article is the fact that Star Wars really shouldn't bother itself with being too deep or insightful with its philosophies. That is where it always seems to have troubles.

Lucas? ambitions to grow the Star Wars movies beyond their origins as mere amusing fantasy-adventure films clearly got the best of him as he spun out his ideas about Whills and prophecies and messiahs, things that seem more at home in a richer and more philosophically sophisticated work like Frank Herbert?s Dune.

 

[ZE_501]

The best takeaway from that Screenrant article is the fact that Star Wars really shouldn't bother itself with being too deep or insightful with its philosophies. That is where it always seems to have troubles.

Lucas? ambitions to grow the Star Wars movies beyond their origins as mere amusing fantasy-adventure films clearly got the best of him as he spun out his ideas about Whills and prophecies and messiahs, things that seem more at home in a richer and more philosophically sophisticated work like Frank Herbert?s Dune.

Dune was one of Lucas' influences if I recall, but it goes without saying Lucas was no Herbert. He simply never had the capacity to world build on that scale, and his foundation (Flash Gordon + Hidden Fortress + Dam Busters) wasn't fit to support anything so weight-y.

There's a reason Solo feels more like a proper Star Wars film to me than anything else they've put out recently. It's a proper rollicking adventure and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Dune influenced ALL sci-fi in the 70's. As it should.

Solo and RO (despite the cheesy Force bits here and there) are much more what Star Wars originally was... before it became vaulted and wannbe important. Mando follows nicely in those footsteps and even better, as its completely devoid of Force nonsense and the Skywalker legacy.

Still can't shake Tatooine though. Maybe one day.

 

[Khev]

Thanks, Khev. Well, what it does for me is provide a forced sense of realization that TROS probably didn't crap on the story of 1-6 any more than George would've been willing to do himself. In that sense, I guess it softens my opposition to the movie and what we got. But in the broader sense, it's just disappointing that no one (even George himself) cared enough about preserving a cohesive narrative that would tie all films with one singular throughline.

Not only would GL have crapped on Anakin's "Chosen One" role by giving the title (either literally or figuratively) to Leia, he would've crapped on it by bringing the Sith back via Darth Talon (unless she wasn't actually a Sith in his ST; who knows?). That's just weird to me. I can't trust the guy.

What I want more than anything in a story I care about is that there be a point to every chapter that's added to it. It seems to me, whether it be George or anyone else, there's no point to any of the post-ROTJ stories. They're just being told to satisfy nostalgia and cash in on the fans who want more.

Hey, the bottom line is that George's ST probably would've pissed me off as much as his PT did. That's becoming clearer with every new nugget of info that comes out. So I'll just be glad to have enjoyed what I did about the ST that we got. And it didn't delve into microscopic "Whills" controlling everyone. That's a win. Plus, I don't have to be saddled with knowing just how much Lucas would've let me down again. Being let down by JJ is way easier to deal with.

See what does make it cohesive to me is that we simply have a "trilogy of trilogies" that loosely ties together if you want them to, even if it isn't a perfect and seamless 9 film narrative. Not to beat a dead horse but as we've often discussed we are required to hand wave/ignore some pretty big discrepancies to even make the OT fit together. So with that in mind I won't hold the cohesiveness *between* separate trilogies to a higher standard.

George himself abandoned a lot of his cooler ideas so I can accept the ST without his blessing since in my mind it kept enough of his ideas (some that were even discarded ROTJ ideas) like Luke being in exile and a woman seemingly overshadowing Anakin. Even better than that they discarded his lamest ideas (microbiotic Whills, people as mere "vehicles", etc.)

I'm just glad that you've at least softened in your dislike of the ST, even if you still don't "like" it per se.