Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[JAWS]

The opening scene, boarding Tantive IV.

Maybe its because I am use to it.. I see no problem with this scene.. Like at all. Its so fast cut and full speed. IDK.. Its perfectly fine to me. Never heard anyone complain about that.

Y’all thought freakin Yoda wouldn’t be a master with a saber?

Nope and if you were alive when all the OT came out you would not have either.

I said it before.. I use to draw pics of yoda with a saber and flying X-wing fighters as a kid.. and my best friend and I would laugh at the idea

The problem with Jedi is it can range from being cool, to dumb and stupid. Their abilities can range from jumping many stories, running 10x the speed of a normal person, alter the minds of those around them at will, convert themselves to a walking ghost, healing injuries and shooting lightning that could cover a continent.

When its grounded and they feel more like Knights with some cool powers, its can be fun and powerful. When it is played up it gets campy or downright silly. Which is fine, but it can get a little awkward to give them a proper villain, which is why the ST was stuck in a loop of having to have a Sith Mastermind, because they are the only real threat for a Jedi.

Agreed 100%.

The original OT they were just knights with some special powers that would help them move things, sense things, and use mind powers over dumb people. When they died they were rewarded in the afterlife.

PT took it too another level. Like someone stated, it took it too cartoon levels.

Its too bad George just didnt slow down a little and worry more about the relationships in the PT and less about all the cool stuff he could do with the CGI. I wish he went back to his old notes and stuck with those ideas.

 

[JAWS]

It is why the Mandalorian is good. Beskar is retconned a bit to be lazer proof, so it can deflect a light saber. That leads to interesting sword play. I am like okay, I could see why the Mandalorians would give Jedi some headaches if they can at least deflect saber hits. Its interesting, it is fun.

Great point!!!

Ren should not be a lightsaber master because she is force sensitive in TFA. They missed the point. A light-saber should take a decent amount of training, since the goal is to teach you to focus your power. The force does not grant you mastery of the light saber. As you note, mastery of the force means you should need to use the saber less.

I give her a pass a bit for several reasons

1. She's a palps and I really believe some of her strength is pulled from Anger which is the dark side which is quicker, easier, more seductive.
2. She knew how to use her staff. Not the same weapon I know but Parry and strike is parry and strike.
3. Kylo was torn. He was not present mentally.
4. Kylo didnt want to kill her
5. Kylo was wounded and if I want to include the books he was using the force to keep his wound closed.. So with the last three examples.. He was at a disadvantage.

In the OT there was never a real explanation to how one becomes trained to do much of anything.. Except for what little we see with Yoda and Luke.. Even then there is no Saber practice. Just athletic training mostly.

Hell Luke was using the force to move things before he even met Yoda. When I was younger I use to think Ghost Ben was training him.. But Luke seems legit surprised by Obi Wan appearing to him o Hoth.

I wonder if not for the PT if we would even give it much thought that Rey could use a saber decently.


Having said all that..

I did not like her being able to use Jedi Mind tricks..

I did not like her holding her own against Kylo.. But with the knowledge of who she is and a better understanding of where Kylo was mentally and physically.. I can give it a pass.

 

[jye4ever]

Wait is Ducky saying that the historic opening of ANH is crap.

I don't even have the strength to go verify something of that magnitude lol

 

[ZE_501]

[...]
I give her a pass a bit for several reasons

1. She's a palps and I really believe some of her strength is pulled from Anger which is the dark side which is quicker, easier, more seductive.
2. She knew how to use her staff. Not the same weapon I know but Parry and strike is parry and strike.
3. Kylo was torn. He was not present mentally.
4. Kylo didnt want to kill her
5. Kylo was wounded and if I want to include the books he was using the force to keep his wound closed.. So with the last three examples.. He was at a disadvantage.

She was a proficient scrapper with a melee weapon, so I gave her a little leeway for the saber, even though far as I remember it has no mass therefore totally different balance and momentum, etc etc but hey it's Star Wars so I allowed it.

Likewise, Kylo was gut shot and just killed his dad so why not.

In the OT there was never a real explanation to how one becomes trained to do much of anything.. Except for what little we see with Yoda and Luke.. Even then there is no Saber practice. Just athletic training mostly.

Hell Luke was using the force to move things before he even met Yoda.

Mary Sue AF.

I did not like her being able to use Jedi Mind tricks..

Completely offside. It was good for laughs at the expense of ... a lot, as it turns out.

 

[hellgrammite00]

I did not like her holding her own against Kylo.. But with the knowledge of who she is and a better understanding of where Kylo was mentally and physically.. I can give it a pass.

Well the problem with her beating Kylo in the first movie is it turns him into a sidekick character the rest of the series, because you can't take him as a credible threat to carry a movie.

Don't....don't bring up Rey's heritage. Let's move on from ST. I need to watch Jar Jar Binks again so at least I can digest some good characterization.

 

[ZE_501]

Don't....don't bring up Rey's heritage.

The unholy spawn of Kennedy and Abrams.

Let's move on from ST.

Not while Khev has strength to type.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Here you go, from "The Making of Return of the Jedi" hardcover:

Lucas: Anakin Skywalker starting hanging out with the Emperor, who at this point nobody knew was that bad, because he was an elected official.

Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?

Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke's father into the dark side.

Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?

Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.

Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?

Lucas: It's just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

Marquand: They use it as a technique.

Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn't go out and fight anybody.

Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn't he?

Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?

Kasdan: I understand what you're saying, but I can't believe it; I am in shock.

Lucas: It's true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.

Kasdan: You mean he wouldn't be any good in a fight?

Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn't.

Kasdan: I accept it, but I don't like it.

(Looks like Kasdan gave a version of his own words to young Lando in Solo, lol.)

Evidence of Lucas lies... well, his constant retconning anyway.

I hope PTers take note. Nothing is as it seems.

 

[JAWS]

Well the problem with her beating Kylo in the first movie is it turns him into a sidekick character the rest of the series, because you can't take him as a credible threat to carry a movie.

I use to agree 100%

Kylo losing that first fight ruined the drama of Kylo vs Rey.

But then I shifted my attention to the ST being more about Ben Solo.. Then his original loss fit better with the story.

If the story is about his being torn and his reluctance to returning to the light side and the trials he goes through to get to the point of being what he wants to be only at that last moment when he has beaten Rey and about to strike her down that he finally (through the assistance of Leia, Rey and the memory of his father) turns to the good side..

IDK that part of the story works for me. That is where the drama was.. Rey was more of a side plot to me

 

[TheDucky]

Wait is Ducky saying that the historic opening of ANH is crap.

I don't even have the strength to go verify something of that magnitude lol

The acting is crap. Watch the rebel fleet troopers when they die. Over the top comedic falling. Completely unrealistic and terrible. It is indisputable.

 

[ironwez20]

I use to agree 100%

Kylo losing that first fight ruined the drama of Kylo vs Rey.

But then I shifted my attention to the ST being more about Ben Solo.. Then his original loss fit better with the story.

If the story is about his being torn and his reluctance to returning to the light side and the trials he goes through to get to the point of being what he wants to be only at that last moment when he has beaten Rey and about to strike her down that he finally (through the assistance of Leia, Rey and the memory of his father) turns to the good side..

IDK that part of the story works for me. That is where the drama was.. Rey was more of a side plot to me

No not at all . It was definitely Rey?s story told poorly

 

[TheDucky]

Here you go, from "The Making of Return of the Jedi" hardcover:

Lucas: Anakin Skywalker starting hanging out with the Emperor, who at this point nobody knew was that bad, because he was an elected official.

Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?

Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke's father into the dark side.

Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?

Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.

Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?

Lucas: It's just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

Marquand: They use it as a technique.

Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn't go out and fight anybody.

Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn't he?

Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?

Kasdan: I understand what you're saying, but I can't believe it; I am in shock.

Lucas: It's true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.

Kasdan: You mean he wouldn't be any good in a fight?

Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn't.

Kasdan: I accept it, but I don't like it.

(Looks like Kasdan gave a version of his own words to young Lando in Solo, lol.)

What utter garbage, like holy crap. Thank god he never followed through on any of this.

 

[JAWS]

No not at all . It was definitely Rey?s story told poorly

Well since its Kylo's story that interests me.. It works.

 

[JAWS]

The acting is crap. Watch the rebel fleet troopers when they die. Over the top comedic falling. Completely unrealistic and terrible. It is indisputable.

Agree to disagree there.

I see nothing wrong with it. Nothing that stands out then any other films out there.

There... It was disputed

 

[JAWS]

Yep... Have no idea how you can think there is anything there that is bad enough to complain about.





I mean they all died more realistic deaths then Aayla Secura

Not harping on the PT as I know you would want those redone also.. I just dont see an issue with that iconic scene.. Sure some of the falls are a little less then dramatic but nothing that takes you our of the scene.

 

[jye4ever]

Just finished watching TLJ with my son and holy smokes that movie not only improves after each viewing it?s definitely on par with TROS at times, better than TROS at times and worse than TROS at times but one thing is certain both are better than TFA.

Another thing is certain I can EASILY sit thru them because they actually feel like real movies unlike the herculean effort it takes to sit thru those 8th grade level PT productions.

I didn?t even roll my eyes at Canto this time out lol

I like it when Luke tells Leia that no one is really ever gone then places Han’s dice in her hand.setting up his return.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I didn?t even roll my eyes at Canto this time out lol

Next time then.

 

[jye4ever]

There is always next time until there isn’t.

 

[ZE_501]

Yep... Have no idea how you can think there is anything there that is bad enough to complain about.

[...]

I honestly couldn't guess how many times I've seen that sequence. Looking at it today, I'm kind of amazed that film got made at all.

And if not for John Williams it may have failed utterly.

 

[JAWS]

I honestly couldn't guess how many times I've seen that sequence. Looking at it today, I'm kind of amazed that film got made at all.

And if not for John Williams it may have failed utterly.

SW was saved in many ways.

Mostly in the editing room.

John Williams score was huge also but its all in the editing of that film. GL Ruff cut would have failed regardless of the score.

But the look of the film. The ideas behind it.. Yeah.. Its amazing that it got greenlit

 

[Wor-Gar]

We've all been so spoiled by decades of fantasy/adventure films now.

Back then, this was highly innovative. People seem to forget. They think editors saved the film or attribute other rationales why it was successful. But George was at the helm. He was the trusted one, no matter how insane this idea seemed to the suits. At the time, to have this foresight, to be able to pull it off -- yes, with help, but still -- to push and drive people to give us what at the time was mind-blowing. The innovative sounds. The wide effects. The ultra-fast cutting during the Death Star assault. So many other things. All developed with George at the helm. I curse him too in his later days for getting greedy... but in 1976 when this was being made, George was still amazingly innovative and clearly had the foresight for something we all desperately desired.