Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

It?s not consistent or progressive, at all.

In previous films, Luke is an action hero and usually the brains behind the mission. His idea to storm the Death Star and bust out Leia. His idea to quit his training and go fight Vader. His idea to break into Jabba?s palace, choke out some pig ****as and jump from skiff to skiff, hacking and slashing Jabba?s goons.


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It?s a character that gets a call to action and goes out and does something . . .

Not sit there on a rock after years of doing nothing but drink ***** milk. He basically regressed back to his dreaming, Farmboy self. Luke didn?t become a war hero by dreaming about it on his Aunt and Uncle?s farm, he actually went out and physically did it, from fighter pilot to Jedi Knight. Star Wars is a power fantasy for children (hence why the toys are so important). If you?re a kid, do you wanna be OT Luke Skywalker or ST Luke Skywalker? Yeah, that?s what I thought. It?s like choosing between Wolverine and Professor X. Everyone wants to be a beserker midget with metal claws, NOBODY wants to be a wheelchair bound trickster that projects things with his mind.

Sorry bro, but if you don?t understand this, you?re just not a real Star Wars fan.


Inb4 ?b-but MUH REY REY is the hero of the ST and muh power fantasy?

Yeah, I bet most of you ST lovers do fantasize about being Rey. You?ll never be a real woman.

....

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[ironwez20]

Yikes. Difabio spitting facts at em.

 

[ZE_501]

Yikes. Difabio spitting facts at em.

And how can this be? For he *is* the Kwisatz Haderach!

Err...sorry, wrong space story.


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[DiFabio]

I’m getting really sick of this board changing my quotation and apostrophes into question marks.

WHO IS IN CHARGE HERE, I HAVE A GRIEVANCE

 

[Khev]

Look at DiFabio gettin' old with the rest of us. "Muh such and such" is so five years ago, now it's aging Boomer talk. Welcome to middle age my friend.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Let?s do this bro.

Obi-Wan got off his fat ass and actually did something. ST Luke did not. Anyone in their 60s that actually goes outside and does something instead of staying inside changing their catheters and diapers, is an action hero. My boy old Ben? Shieeet he scared off some Sandpeople, healed my boy Luke, gave him a cool laser sword, chopped a drunk mofo?s arm off, bamboozaled a pirate into thinking he had money, jumped on a pirate ship into SPACE and fought an evil Dark Lord.

ST Luke is a mopey *****. His ass? He didn?t even leave that Porg planet island thing. He whined. He was like ?no Rey, Jedi are poopy heads?. He was completely INACTIVE. Did he take his call to action? No. Then when you finally think his fat ass got off porg planet and he?s gonna fight the Nu-Empire one on one, it?s all an illusion. He didn?t do anything. Finn and uh, Tico de Gallo?s shenanigans was a better distraction than hologram Luke.

But yeah, in terms of story. Rey didn?t even need Luke to progress her journey. She was gonna do all that **** regardless because damn it, she?s Rey! Farmboy Luke? That ***** needed Ben Kenobi. If Ben Kenobi didn?t show up, Luke was gonna get raped by some sandpeople just like his grandma. If Ben Kenobi didn?t show up, Luke wouldn?t have a cool blue lazer sword. If Ben didn?t keep on him to come with him to Alderaan, Luke would have been a reduced to a BBQ corpse like his Aunt and Uncle. Old Ben knows the Mos Eisley spaceport, he knows about the Cantina. He sets up the meeting with Han and Chewbacca. Maaaan, Princess Leia WANTS Ben Kenobi, he fought alongside her father in the Clone Wars! Dudes a hero. He?s coming out of retirement for one last hoorah and goes out in style.

Old Luke is a grouchy prick. He doesn?t want to do anything. He doesn?t really teach Rey. He doesn?t accompany her anywhere. She has no respect for him. He doesn?t impart any real knowledge that she couldn?t just pick up from Han Solo or Leia. He?s a ****ing a loser. ?Muh Nephew?, ?Muh jedi temple?, ?Muh force?. He doesn?t inspire Rey, in fact, she?s disgusted by him and tries to chop his head off when Kylo is like ?yeah, he tried to kill me when I was a kid? during that Force zoom call. Luke sucks. He doesn?t do **** and it?s not because he?s old, it?s because he?s a ****ing loser. He didn?t even have the balls to get obliterated by Super AT-AT canon fire or chopped in half by his nephew. Instead, he ?performed it? like an actor. Ewwwwwww

Old Ben? He was actually on the Death Star doin? some gangster ****. He spooked the **** out of Darth because he was ACTUALLY there. He guided Luke into the role of the hero because HE WAS ACTUALLY THERE. Yo, who put the tractor beam out of commission so Luke and the gang could escape? Oh, Tarkin and Vader so they could track the Falcon? Oh, uhhh, Ben Kenobi WAS THERE!

Nuff said. ST Luke is ***** and a disappointment after waiting for Luke to return on the big screen since 1983. Atleast when Obi-Wan Kenobi returned to the big screen he was slicing up battle droids, pranking Liam Neeson and chopping Sith Lords in half.

ST Luke is a ***** and the ST are crappy movies. Nuff said.

You definitely get points for entertainment value. But I don't think you actually believe half of what you're saying.

Ben Kenobi coming out of retirement for one last hoorah? Say what!? He went into "retirement" as Ewan McGregor at the end of ROTS. Yeah, he must've been totally washed up at that point.

ANH Kenobi confronted Vader and chose to let himself die. How come? Why not use his TPM "Force Sprint" to join back up with Luke and the gang for their escape? He did it because the battle belonged to the new generation, and he could do more good as a passive Force ghost than as an active Jedi.

OT Kenobi and ST Luke were the same. Both actors in their 60's; both characters having been turned on by their apprentice; both hiding out somewhere as a result - rather than being an active part of a rebellion; both being sought for help; and both sacrificing themselves to give the new crew a chance to survive. The generational transition is a part of SW.

The difference between the two characters is that ST Luke was given an explicit reason for staying out of the action for a few years (rather than 20!). He was given that reason because the director didn't want Luke aware of planets being destroyed while he stayed away on an island rather than getting involved, and aware of non-Jedi Han Solo tasked with (and died performing) a mission that should've been his.

I guess the alternative would be TLJ Luke telling Rey, "Whaddaya mean the First Order has been destroying the galaxy for the last few years!? Why didn't anyone tell me? Wasn't it super easy to find me by tracking down a hidden map fragment, then magically realize that it's the missing piece of the rest of the map that happens to have been downloaded from Imperial files by my droid 30 years ago!? Gimme that lightsaber, I've got an army to go kill."

 

[Khev]

I guess the alternative would be TLJ Luke telling Rey, "Whaddaya mean the First Order has been destroying the galaxy for the last few years!? Why didn't anyone tell me? Wasn't it super easy to find me by tracking down a hidden map fragment, then magically realize that it's the missing piece of the rest of the map that happens to have been downloaded from Imperial files by my droid 30 years ago!? Gimme that lightsaber, I've got an army to go kill."

ajp in 3 minutes I will change your view of the entire Saga. Darth Vader was never after Luke in the Death Star trench, he was gunning for R2 for downloading the Jedi Restricted files before he could read them!

 

[jye4ever]

I?m getting really sick of this board changing my quotation and apostrophes into question marks.

WHO IS IN CHARGE HERE, I HAVE A GENERAL GRIEVANCE

ME 2!

Oh and btw ST Luke helped destroy the sith in the inevitable manner which he was always going to be involved

Also only reason old fart Kenobi went out with his bad knees and lying and using Luke in the process was to make up for his massive failures as a Jedi (he left Anakin alive) and also to answer for the failures of the Jedi order that post ROTJ Luke eventually realized was as much a problem as the sith were.

But no worries your old fart hero Kenobi helped hobo Luke at the end of TROS so all is good your OT dollies are still safe master D lol

 

[ajp4mgs]

ajp in 3 minutes I will change your view of the entire Saga. Darth Vader was never after Luke in the Death Star trench, he was gunning for R2 for downloading the Jedi Restricted files before he could read them!

Khev, you are wise and strong.

 

[TheDucky]

Speak of the devil and he shall appear. The fire rises.

We take Star Wars from the SJWs! The rich! The out of touch! The oppressors of generations who have kept the franchise down with myths of opportunity, and we give it back to you... the people. Star Wars is yours. None shall interfere. Do as you please. Start by storming twitter, and freeing the oppressed PT fans! Step forward those who would serve. For and army will be raised. The powerful will be ripped from their decadent nests, and cast out into the cold world that we know and endure. Courts will be convened. Spoils will be enjoyed. ST will be retconned. The ST lovers will survive, as they learn to serve the true canon. This great franchise... it will endure. Star Wars will survive!

The retcon is coming!

 

[ZE_501]

[...]ANH Kenobi confronted Vader and chose to let himself die. How come? Why not use his TPM "Force Sprint" to join back up with Luke and the gang for their escape? He did it because the battle belonged to the new generation, and he could do more good as a passive Force ghost than as an active Jedi.

Really? He did it because Lucas hadn't made Jedi superheroes in 1977. There was no plan, no rhyme, no reason, and at the time, not much likelihood of a sequel.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Really? He did it because Lucas hadn't made Jedi superheroes in 1977. There was no plan, no rhyme, no reason, and at the time, not much likelihood of a sequel.

Kenobi's spirit helps Luke at the end of the movie. That was the intent. In the novel (presumably based on movie scripts), Kenobi is even the one who seemingly guides the shot, and it's presented as if Luke is surprised by it.

 

[Khev]

Kenobi's spirit helps Luke at the end of the movie. That was the intent. In the novel (presumably based on movie scripts), Kenobi is even the one who seemingly guides the shot, and it's presented as if Luke is surprised by it.

KK's Story Group was right, Jyn Erso *was* the true hero responsible for the destruction of the Death Star.

 

[ajp4mgs]

KK's Story Group was right, Jyn Erso *was* the true hero responsible for the destruction of the Death Star.

This is why we should be grateful that the novelizations differ from the actual movies.

And I don't want to let my interpretation of the novel (which I might be getting wrong) represent what was actually printed. I've posted this page before, and here it is again:

 

[DiFabio]

Ben Kenobi coming out of retirement for one last hoorah? Say what!? He went into "retirement" as Ewan McGregor at the end of ROTS. Yeah, he must've been totally washed up at that point.

Disney’s Kenobi will no doubt retcon this.

ANH Kenobi confronted Vader and chose to let himself die. How come? Why not use his TPM "Force Sprint" to join back up with Luke and the gang for their escape? He did it because the battle belonged to the new generation, and he could do more good as a passive Force ghost than as an active Jedi.

Don’t get cute. Force Sprint™ wasn’t invented until 1997, 20 years after Star Wars. Ben couldn’t use it because it wasn’t invented yet. Duh!

But no, he let himself be killed because Luke probably wouldn’t have left him otherwise. He also seemed pretty intent on ****ing with Vader, because even back then, Vader acted like he was a little know it all *****. Bet Vader didn’t know that Jedi can disappear when killed! GOT EM.

Also, I think Alec Guinness or Marsha Lucas suggested Obi-Wan had die to have a dramatic moment and a death in the picture. Think it was a rewrite.

OT Kenobi and ST Luke were the same. Both actors in their 60's; both characters having been turned on by their apprentice; both hiding out somewhere as a result - rather than being an active part of a rebellion; both being sought for help; and both sacrificing themselves to give the new crew a chance to survive. The generational transition is a part of SW.

The difference between the two characters is that ST Luke was given an explicit reason for staying out of the action for a few years (rather than 20!). He was given that reason because the director didn't want Luke aware of planets being destroyed while he stayed away on an island rather than getting involved, and aware of non-Jedi Han Solo tasked with (and died performing) a mission that should've been his.

No the difference is, Old Ben got his ass off of Tatooine and took part in the action . . .

ST Luke’s ass stayed on Ahch-oooo and merely pretended to be involved.

This is the crux of the argument. Old Ben is more exciting and more real than ST Luke. ST Luke serves the same functional story purpose, but if I wanna watch this type of story, then why not just ****in’ watch the one that does the story better like ANH, Empire Strikes Back or the Karate Kid?


ST is like a poor man’s OT, but with more convolutions. Why see this shallow, heavy handed story about Rey, Kylo and Palpatine when I can get a better one from the OT? There are too many explanations for the ST’s ridiculousness. The OT is a much more simple and grounded story in that regard. We don’t have to go to crazy lengths to explain Ben’s situation like we do Luke’s. We don’t have to go to crazy length’s about Palpatine’s reign and Luke’s origin as we do with Rey’s heritage and Palpatine’s obnoxious return. It’s all about simplicity.

So, Luke goes to the planet to shut himself off from the force. You say this is the case because the director (lol, more like handler) doesn’t want Luke to be aware of the planets that were destroyed or that Han was killed. Ok, fair enough? It’s still contrived BS that doesn’t change the fact that older story is better. Is this supposed to make me like Luke more, because it doesn’t. I learned through 6 Star Wars flicks that the Jedi can feel **** going down. Tremors in the force and such. Ben Kenobi feels Alderaan get blown up despite not being there, Vader can sense Kenobi’s presence, Yoda can feel when his Jedi bros are getting killed in the Order 66 drive by, etc. etc. So Luke can’t feel ANY of those things because of his isolation on this hidden planet. Shut off from the force. Got it. Good. After 6 movies, a Jedi can just turn their powers off.

HOW THE **** DOES A WEAK ASS JEDI THAT SHUT HIMSELF OFF FROM THE FORCE AND IS NUMB TO IT ALL SUDDENLY HAVE THE POWER TO PROJECT AN IMAGE OF HIMSELF (which is an awful illusion btw since it doesn’t even look like him as he appears in the present and contains the same lightsaber that Kylo knows (or should know) was just destroyed by him just the scene before) ACROSS THE UNIVERSE . . . FROM THE VERY PLANET HE CHOSE FOR IT’S ISOLATION PURPOSES?

Because it’s ****ing stupid, that’s why. It’s about as cinematic as a Bantha’s butt hole, and just as anti-climatic. The whole gag is “Ha, gotcha, Luke wasn’t even there!” and it lasts a couple of seconds. I have a quicker solution to that scene. When Finn and Tico go and commit suicide, the Nu-Rebels could just go and run away with the crystal salt foxes. Then boom, Rey comes, saves everybody and they move onto film three. Then Luke can be in film three and do what he did in film two (Absolutely nothing) and you’re down two obnoxious characters that don’t contribute to the final movie.

 

[Khev]

Don’t get cute. Force Sprint™ wasn’t invented until 1997, 20 years after Star Wars.

And two full years before The Phantom Menace apparently. Impressive.

 

[DiFabio]

And two full years before The Phantom Menace apparently. Impressive.

(no force projection though, thank goodness)

 

[Khev]

Ah that must be whatever video game you referenced earlier. I stand corrected.

 

[Khev]

This is why we should be grateful that the novelizations differ from the actual movies.

No kidding. Can you imagine the YouTube videos if a current year novel implied that Luke wasn't fully responsible for making the shot...

 

[ajp4mgs]

Disney?s Kenobi will no doubt retcon this.

Maybe; wouldn't surprise me. Retconning seems to be all the rage in SW lately.

Don?t get cute. Force Sprint? wasn?t invented until 1997, 20 years after Star Wars. Ben couldn?t use it because it wasn?t invented yet. Duh!

But no, he killed himself because Luke probably wouldn?t have left him otherwise. He also seemed pretty intent on ****ing with Vader, because even back then, Vader acted like he was a little know it all *****. Bet Vader didn?t know that Jedi can disappear when killed! GOT EM.

Also, I think Alec Guinness or Marsha Lucas suggested Obi-Wan had die to have a dramatic moment and a death in the picture. Think it was a rewrite.

All possible. But I just default to the "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" line.

No the difference is, Old Ben got his ass off of Tatooine and took part in the action . . .

Fine, he got off his ass. So what? Luke could accomplish the same things while simply levitating his ass. It still works. And he still had to die doing it.

I won't repeat more of the same **** that I've already posted repeatedly here for 3 years, and I know you wouldn't want to read it anyway. What I'll tell you is that I agree that the ST was derivative of the OT and inferior. As for how inferior, we will always disagree.

But I want to ask a SW nerd question based on the point you make below, because I'm hoping someone here can chime in on it, or maybe give other examples.

So Luke can?t feel ANY of those things because of his isolation on this hidden planet. Shut off from the force. Got it. Good. After 6 movies, a Jedi can just turn their powers off.

HOW THE **** DOES A WEAK ASS JEDI THAT SHUT HIMSELF OFF FROM THE FORCE AND IS NUMB TO IT ALL SUDDENLY HAVE THE POWER TO PROJECT AN IMAGE OF HIMSELF (which is an awful illusion btw since it doesn?t even look like him as he appears now and contains the same lightsaber that Kylo knows or should know that he just broke in two just a scene before) ACROSS THE UNIVERSE?? AND WHY DOES THIS MAGIC KILL HIM??

Wasn't Palpatine "shutting himself off from the Force" throughout the PT when he dealt with the Jedi Council? Seems to me that Jedi Masters would be able to pick up on Force energy that strong when they're in the same room.

EDIT: Oh yeah, as for the why does it kill him? Using the Force is physically draining. Luke got gassed trying to lift the X-Wing in ESB. Baby Yoda passes out from using the Force too hard. And TLJ established earlier in the film that when using a power like projecting yourself through the Force "the effort would kill you." I like that because it prevents godlike cheating by Jedi in this universe.