Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[DiFabio]

I dunno. Maybe Palpatine is really two people and the one we see as the politician is Darth Sidious’ non-force sensitive, low midichlorian count, twin brother? Then sometime during ROTS, said brother is on vacation when Mace and his boys come to arrest Sidious? That’s why the Jedi can’t sense his evil. We can show this in flashbacks and it can mirror the twins theme that was used in ROTJ. We can also use the brother Sheev later in a future sequel trilogy, or a tv show, or both!

(Am I writing like a Disney board exec yet??)

 

[ZE_501]

Kenobi's spirit helps Luke at the end of the movie. That was the intent. In the novel (presumably based on movie scripts), Kenobi is even the one who seemingly guides the shot, and it's presented as if Luke is surprised by it.

Okay, so let's not muddy the waters with talk of why he didn't use abilities that didn't exist in 1977.

Kenobi was an old man and apparently no physical match for Vader, he sacrificed himself to allow the others to escape. He appeared to have foreknowledge of becoming Obi The Friendly Ghost, yes, and on-screen was pivotal in advising Luke to rely on his then-nascent Jedi abilities to make the shot.

We don't know what the novel was based on or what version it was based on, so again, why muddy the waters bringing that up? Star Wars 'lore' has been a mess of apocryphal material and contradictions from the very beginning. I remember passages from the novel. Blaster bolts were described as 'rainbow hued' and blowing people's skulls clean apart. Like Care Bear stares with hollow points. That obviously never made it into the film.

And you want to make the jump from Obi Wan to Luke as portrayed in TLJ? Nah, I'm with DiFabio on that one.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I dunno. Maybe Palpatine is really two people and the one we see as the politician is Darth Sidious’ non-force sensitive, low midichlorian count, twin brother? Then sometime during ROTS, said brother is on vacation when Mace and his boys come to arrest Sidious? That’s why the Jedi can’t sense his evil. We can show this in flashbacks and it can mirror the twins theme that was used in ROTJ. We can also use the brother Sheev later in a future sequel trilogy, or a tv show, or both!

(Am I writing like a Disney board exec yet??)

Nice! You're too creative to be a Disney exec.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Okay, so let's not muddy the waters with talk of why he didn't use abilities that didn't exist in 1977.

Kenobi was an old man and apparently no physical match for Vader, he sacrificed himself to allow the others to escape. He appeared to have foreknowledge of becoming Obi The Friendly Ghost, yes, and on-screen was pivotal in advising Luke to rely on his then-nascent Jedi abilities to make the shot.

We don't know what the novel was based on or what version it was based on, so again, why muddy the waters bringing that up? Star Wars 'lore' has been a mess of apocryphal material and contradictions from the very beginning. I remember passages from the novel. Blaster bolts were described as 'rainbow hued' and blowing people's skulls clean apart. Like Care Bear stares with hollow points. That obviously never made it into the film.

And you want to make the jump from Obi Wan to Luke as portrayed in TLJ? Nah, I'm with DiFabio on that one.

Fine, sure, I'll stop muddying waters or whatever. Either way, in 1977 Lucas could've easily made up something to have Kenobi use the Force to escape the situation with Vader and then reappear with the younger crew. But he was a mentor, and his spiritual existence was a device to show that the Force is powerful beyond mortal flesh.

By the time we see him in the PT, he was shown as an active warrior. So was Yoda, for that matter. In the OT, they were mentors. The ST continued that theme. You don't like it, and that's fine. Telling me you disagree with my point of view goes without saying. I get it.

 

[Khev]

Kenobi was an old man and apparently no physical match for Vader,

Where'd you pick that up?

I've never seen any indication on screen that Vader was winning that duel. I saw two combatants that were totally evenly matched until Ben stopped fighting and allowed Vader to strike him down.

 

[ZE_501]

All possible. But I just default to the "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" line.

After Lucas's wife pointed out that after the DS escape Obi Wan literally had "nothing left to do" they had to kill him off in a meaningful way, hence Obi the Friendly Ghost.

Fine, he got off his ass. So what? Luke could accomplish the same things while simply levitating his ass.

***snnnoooooooore***

Wasn't Palpatine "shutting himself off from the Force" throughout the PT when he dealt with the Jedi Council? Seems to me that Jedi Masters would be able to pick up on Force energy that strong when they're in the same room.

There was a line in TPM (I think) referencing how the Dark Side "clouds everything". Apparently a useful Sith ability is Force cloaking.

I like that because it prevents godlike cheating by Jedi in this universe.

Yeah, that'd be like teleporting lightsabers.

I dunno. Maybe Palpatine is really two people and the one we see as the politician is Darth Sidious? non-force sensitive, low midichlorian count, twin brother? Then sometime during ROTS, said brother is on vacation when Mace and his boys come to arrest Sidious? That?s why the Jedi can?t sense his evil. We can show this in flashbacks and it can mirror the twins theme that was used in ROTJ. We can also use the brother Sheev later in a future sequel trilogy, or a tv show, or both!

(Am I writing like a Disney board exec yet??)

Hired.

 

[DiFabio]

Blaster bolts were described as 'rainbow hued' and blowing people's skulls clean apart. Like Care Bear stares with hollow points. That obviously never made it into the film.

WTF, I want to see that instead.

Quick, someone edit the blaster effects in all the films and make it depict this. Sell it as a new version for home video. I wanna see Greedo’s skull.

 

[ZE_501]

Where'd you pick that up?

I've never seen any indication on screen that Vader was winning that duel. I saw two combatants that were totally evenly matched until Ben stopped fighting and allowed Vader to strike him down.

"I'm getting too old for this ****."

- Obi Wan

 

[Khev]

"I'm getting too old for this ****."

So? Watch the actual duel.

 

[ZE_501]

So? Watch the actual duel.

I still won't see what you see because you're always wrong.

 

[jye4ever]

I’m still laughing at DiFabio’s Order 66 drive by kills lol

 

[Khev]

I still won't see what you see because you're always wrong.

ZE_501 logic at work:

Luke didn't actually blow up the Death Star. It self-destructed.

Huh, where'd you pick that up?

"That's impossible, even for a computer."

- Wedge

 

[ZE_501]

Khev logic at work:

*Sees the Sequel Trilogy*

"That was awesome!"

 

[Khev]

Khev logic at work:

*Sees the Sequel Trilogy*

"That was awesome!"

 

[The Buffinator]

I dunno. Maybe Palpatine is really two people and the one we see as the politician is Darth Sidious? non-force sensitive, low midichlorian count, twin brother? Then sometime during ROTS, said brother is on vacation when Mace and his boys come to arrest Sidious? That?s why the Jedi can?t sense his evil. We can show this in flashbacks and it can mirror the twins theme that was used in ROTJ. We can also use the brother Sheev later in a future sequel trilogy, or a tv show, or both!

(Am I writing like a Disney board exec yet??)

Actually, you're writing like someone who's seen The Prestige. The Nolan brothers would like a word with you regarding copyright infringement.

 

[DiFabio]

EDIT: Oh yeah, as for the why does it kill him? Using the Force is physically draining. Luke got gassed trying to lift the X-Wing in ESB. Baby Yoda passes out from using the Force too hard. And TLJ established earlier in the film that when using a power like projecting yourself through the Force "the effort would kill you." I like that because it prevents godlike cheating by Jedi in this universe.

Tryna trick me with your edits, bro?!

Oof, I don’t like this. I don’t like this at all.

That line is specifically thrown in there to justify the ability itself. It played out like this. Rian knew the beginning, middle and end of the story he had in mind. He already knew Luke was going to pull off this force projection crap. Sometime during production either be or the crew figured it would be best to have a line in there to establish the ability, as to not come off as too forced (lol) or contrived.

That’s it.

In Empire when the X-Wing is too big, Luke isn’t clutching his chest about to have a heart attack like Fred Sanford. His concentration breaks and he falls to the ground in exhaustion.

****ing Luke in TLJ shows no signs of exhaustion or real pain, succeeds in his little puppet show spectacle, looks fine and then suddenly just ****s his pants and dies. It’s looks really stupid. I just pulled the scene up. He looked fine, he seemed fine. It was too sudden, it was too much, just like most of TLJ (and the sequel trilogy).

Palpatine lightning in space hitting all the starships lol

 

[jye4ever]

I thought he looked like he was in the company of a heart attack in progress lol

DiFabio are you a fan of no matte lines pristine ESB or visible matte lines grungy ESB

I gots to know

 

[The Buffinator]

Tryna trick me with your edits, bro?!

Palpatine lightning in space hitting all the starships lol

Yes, ridiculous. Like we're supposed to believe they might all be constructed of conductive metals. As if...

 

[ajp4mgs]

After Lucas's wife pointed out that after the DS escape Obi Wan literally had "nothing left to do" they had to kill him off in a meaningful way, hence Obi the Friendly Ghost.

I don't care how they got there; the fact that Obi-Wan would have nothing else to do just reinforces the point that he was a powerful Jedi who would serve no direct/active role in the main conflict resolution beyond that of being a mentor and spiritual guide.

***snnnoooooooore***

I'm sure that you'll be stunned to learn that I found that reveal compelling and pretty cool while you were sleeping in your seat. Big surprise, right?

There was a line in TPM (I think) referencing how the Dark Side "clouds everything". Apparently a useful Sith ability is Force cloaking.

I guess Sidious didn't teach that trick to his apprentices. Yoda told Dooku in the very next film that "the dark side I sense in you."

Yeah, that'd be like teleporting lightsabers.

Not a fan of that. Not even a fan of the water droplets transferring onto Kylo's glove in TLJ. ESB Luke getting tired when trying to lift the X-Wing; Force projection being lethal; and Grogu passing out from exertion when using the Force... I like all these things. Because I like it better when there's something to keep the magic grounded enough not to have to ask "Why can't they just do [insert crazy magic power here] and win that way?" The more incredible the Force power, the more I'm fine with a stronger consequence.

Tryna trick me with your edits, bro?!

Oof, I don?t like this. I don?t like this at all.

That line is specifically thrown in there to justify the ability itself. It played out like this. Rian knew the beginning, middle and end of the story he had in mind. He already knew Luke was going to pull off this force projection crap. Sometime during production either be or the crew figured it would be best to have a line in there to establish the ability, as to not come off as too forced (lol) or contrived.

That?s it.

In Empire when the X-Wing is too big, Luke isn?t clutching his chest about to have a heart attack like Fred Sanford. His concentration breaks and he falls to the ground in exhaustion.

****ing Luke in TLJ shows no signs of exhaustion or real pain, succeeds in his little puppet show spectacle, looks fine and then suddenly just ****s his pants and dies. It?s looks really stupid. I just pulled the scene up. He looked fine, he seemed fine. It was too sudden, it was too much, just like most of TLJ (and the sequel trilogy).

Palpatine lightning in space hitting all the starships lol

You don't have to like. I like it, so I win.

And no, Luke didn't seem fine. When he was levitating he was shaking and sweating like he was trapped in a small airtight room with a gassy fat chick.

He collapsed to the ground and had to claw his way back onto the rock. The calm look on his face was nothing more than a visual way to reassure the audience that Luke wasn't dying in pain. Instead, he was giving himself to the Force in total peace and serenity.

Now hurry up and log off so I can come back and edit my post.

 

[ZE_501]

I don't care how they got there; the fact that Obi-Wan would have nothing else to do just reinforces the point that he was a powerful Jedi who would serve no direct/active role in the main conflict resolution beyond that of being a mentor and spiritual guide.

Just to be clear, my ST hating often gets conflated with a different kind of ST hating. I didn't need Luke to turn into Rambo.

I'm sure that you'll be stunned to learn that I found that reveal compelling and pretty cool while you were sleeping in your seat. Big surprise, right?

Shocking.

I guess Sidious didn't teach that trick to his apprentices. Yoda told Dooku in the very next film that "the dark side I sense in you."

Wasn't that after Dooku did a bunch of evil stuff? Kinda like when the Enterprise eats a barrage of torpedoes and Troi's all "Captain I sense hostility."