Star Wars: The Acolyte

[crows]

I've actually been enjoying this show through Grace's reviews
And man, even she shredded it to pieces...

i still love her

 

[pixletwin]

i still love her

Me too. She is very New York.

 

[Ramatuelle]

*Shrug*

IMO it was just a set-up for a season 2, so that in the end they could rip off Kylo's arc and say "well, Plagueis was pulling the strings all the time, these serial killers aren't RESPONSIBLE" e.g. Plagueis was lurking around a cave to see his GRAND PLAN unfold.

A good point, one which has troubled me without my clarifying it to myself. WTF is Plagueis doing lurking around a CAVE? Do you think you'd see Palpatine slumming in his acolyte's cave?! Hardly! Way too much imperious pride. This just seems really out of character to me.

 

[chrisstbh]

This show would've been significantly better if there was more focus on Sol and Qimir with Osha/Mae being the supporting characters instead.

Those two simply carried the show.

 

[Ramatuelle]

Only reason to watch, no lies detected.

 

[Asta]

 

[Wor-Gar]

Does it need explanation?

 

[Random_Retard]

Ah, here was the comic (via screenrant) https://screenrant.com/star-wars-anakin-father-emperor/#:~:text=Yes, Star Wars fans, Darth,performed personally by Emperor Palpatine.

Oh good lord, it really doesn't get much nerdier than that!
You know what any other guy would have done?
Find a wife, make some babies and hope that they inherit the best of you...
The thought probably never even crossed Palpatines and/or Plagueis' mind...
Such nerds...

 

[JacktheRipper]

Does it need explanation?

Well, yes. When know one knows what's going on and everything has to be explained. Sounds like good writing.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Yeah I never imagined Jedi were invading peoples homes and kidnaping children, killing their mothers, until this Disney take, skews so insanely off to me, these characters are repulsive.

While Lucas never implied the Jedi were perfect, to the contrary he opened the door to show us why they weren't,

My take is George Lucas turned the Jedi Order into a bunch of morons. And Headland simply followed that blueprint.

During The Holy Trilogy, there is simply a lot that the viewer doesn't know. But during the Prequel Trilogy, the writing was bad enough and lazy enough where the Jedi were pretty dense. The idea of Anakin just magically forgetting his mother was still a slave, and then the Jedi Council simply leaving her as a slave while acknowledging her son as a danger to all of them is inexplicable.

"The West Wing Effect" was in full bloom during the Prequel Trilogy. Everyone wanted to write like Aaron Sorkin. They wanted complex geopolitical intrigue and back room machinations. Except that's incredibly difficult to write period. Lucas was not a sophisticated writer. But he attempted to show the ugly practical mechanics of the Jedi Council, the Senate and the power struggle during Palpatine's rise. Too hard to make Palpatine more clever, so he just wrote the Jedi to be morons.

IMHO this was why Baylan Skoll was such a breath of fresh air. He was a pragmatist. He knew the Jedi Order was basically on a one way suicide run long term based on their dogma and inflexibility.

Lucas made everything harder than it needed to be from a narrative standpoint. So it's not a surprise to me that Headland's Acolyte had Jedi who did the exact same thing. Where I think this deviates a bit is modern Hollywood is very anti-Christian in nature. If there's anything that enrages the average industry showrunner, most of them, it's the imagery of poor white rural Christian America as anything other than a source for vitriol. Lucas was just pushing forward bad and lazy writing. Headland had to add in barely concealed malice as well.

I'll give Headland that much credit. She didn't try to make the Jedi very clever and then magically they became the morons they ended up as in the Prequel Trilogy. She just left them as morons.

When will Star Wars stories get better? Lucas needs to die. He's an anchor around the neck of everything and so much of what can't be done is because he's effectively holding the story hostage. He needs to die so someone can finally remake the Prequel Trilogy again. ( Edit - To clarify, I am not wishing open harm upon Lucas. I love the Holy Trilogy to no end like many other long time Star Wars fans. It's just this is often like New York Yankee fans waiting for George Steinbrenner to pass away to finally get past the same self destructive pathology that crippled that franchise or like Oakland Raiders fans were waiting for Al Davis to finally expire so the team could finally be reborn again into something competitive. Everyone having to stop and constantly defer to Lucas' ego on any future storytelling is just an anchor around the potential of the franchise. If he wanted the stories his way, he shouldn't have sold it. Once he sold it, he needs to butt out, right or wrong. )

 

[Random_Retard]

This show would've been significantly better if there was more focus on Sol and Qimir with Osha/Mae being the supporting characters instead.

Those two simply carried the show.

This show would've been significantly better if there was more focus on some proper dialogue/writing and some better acting to support it all.

Those two things could have carried the show...



Honestly though: Watched the last episode yesterday and my final verdict:
Completely forgettable...

 

[How2TrainKaiju]

Ah, here was the comic (via screenrant) https://screenrant.com/star-wars-anakin-father-emperor/#:~:text=Yes, Star Wars fans, Darth,performed personally by Emperor Palpatine.

I've never been more confused than by the flipflopping that set of panels has produced. The guy who did the comic himself came out and said it was a vision and manifestation of Anakin's fears and paranoia and not what literally happened. Is Lucasfilm stepping over him and putting their stamp on it as being literal now?

 

[ZaCHw117]

I figured this would be the place to ask… my apologies if it’s been discussed as this thread moves crazy fast, but has anyone talked to Jye? I recently started a new job so haven’t been able to be as active but it says he hasn’t posted since the 11th which is not like him?

Also, - to be on topic, has this show gotten any better since episode 4?

 

[JacktheRipper]

Banned for some picture he posted.
I think I got the right Jye.

 

[jaztermareal]

I've never been more confused than by the flipflopping that set of panels has produced. The guy who did the comic himself came out and said it was a vision and manifestation of Anakin's fears and paranoia and not what literally happened. Is Lucasfilm stepping over him and putting their stamp on it as being literal now?

Basically what happened is that the writers wanted to make it plain that Palpatine force fathered Anakin but the story group did not approve of that reveal (prob didn't want it revealed in a comic of all places) and they wished to leave it open for the time being so fans can argue- I mean discuss their theories. The comic panels were not vague enough so the readers all took away the original intent (that Palps is Ani's daddy as per the old fan theories) and some got annoyed by that as they hated the idea so story group got annoyed as they didn't want it made canon (yet) either way and the writers had to then come out and do damage control and state that they work hard to stay in line with story group and that the vision is not solid fact (but it could be). Basically maintain status quo of "Palpy might have made Ani but he might not. Plaguis didn't do it though. Plaguis thinks maybe the force did it coz he doesn't know Palps did it- I mean he doesn't know how it spontaneously happened.

Basically, story group want it ambiguous for now, comic made it too explicit so story group went rabble rabble and the writers had to state "we weren't being literal, it is still ambiguous we promise".

 

[abake]

My take is George Lucas turned the Jedi Order into a bunch of morons. And Headland simply followed that blueprint.

During The Holy Trilogy, there is simply a lot that the viewer doesn't know. But during the Prequel Trilogy, the writing was bad enough and lazy enough where the Jedi were pretty dense. The idea of Anakin just magically forgetting his mother was still a slave, and then the Jedi Council simply leaving her as a slave while acknowledging her son as a danger to all of them is inexplicable.

"The West Wing Effect" was in full bloom during the Prequel Trilogy. Everyone wanted to write like Aaron Sorkin. They wanted complex geopolitical intrigue and back room machinations. Except that's incredibly difficult to write period. Lucas was not a sophisticated writer. But he attempted to show the ugly practical mechanics of the Jedi Council, the Senate and the power struggle during Palpatine's rise. Too hard to make Palpatine more clever, so he just wrote the Jedi to be morons.

IMHO this was why Baylan Skoll was such a breath of fresh air. He was a pragmatist. He knew the Jedi Order was basically on a one way suicide run long term based on their dogma and inflexibility.

Lucas made everything harder than it needed to be from a narrative standpoint. So it's not a surprise to me that Headland's Acolyte had Jedi who did the exact same thing. Where I think this deviates a bit is modern Hollywood is very anti-Christian in nature. If there's anything that enrages the average industry showrunner, most of them, it's the imagery of poor white rural Christian America as anything other than a source for vitriol. Lucas was just pushing forward bad and lazy writing. Headland had to add in barely concealed malice as well.

I'll give Headland that much credit. She didn't try to make the Jedi very clever and then magically they became the morons they ended up as in the Prequel Trilogy. She just left them as morons.

When will Star Wars stories get better? Lucas needs to die. He's an anchor around the neck of everything and so much of what can't be done is because he's effectively holding the story hostage. He needs to die so someone can finally remake the Prequel Trilogy again. ( Edit - To clarify, I am not wishing open harm upon Lucas. I love the Holy Trilogy to no end like many other long time Star Wars fans. It's just this is often like New York Yankee fans waiting for George Steinbrenner to pass away to finally get past the same self destructive pathology that crippled that franchise or like Oakland Raiders fans were waiting for Al Davis to finally expire so the team could finally be reborn again into something competitive. Everyone having to stop and constantly defer to Lucas' ego on any future storytelling is just an anchor around the potential of the franchise. If he wanted the stories his way, he shouldn't have sold it. Once he sold it, he needs to butt out, right or wrong. )

I don't think I agree with anything you said

I think you're not factoring in that Lucas is a child of the counter-culture, very 60's, so he's always been an "anti-establishment" type of dude. That was very clear since A New Hope was simply Star Wars. Rebels = Freedom Fighters = Guerrillas.
So it's natural that when he starts writing about the Jedi order, he also points to the failings of such a strict dogmatic institution. He doesn't write them a stupid, since even the Jedi themselves understand that they are screwing up (Yoda comments on it, Dooku spells it out to Obi Wan, and lets not forget Qui Gonn's stance). That the Jedi Order is failing is the whole point, and the reason why Anakin ends up falling for Palpatine's machinations. By the way, that is probably the only thing I like about TLJ, that it openly addresses the fact that the Jedi were flawed.
Anakin doesn't forget that his mother is a slave, he just can't do anything about it, because the Jedi frown upon such attachments. The hubris and dogma of the Jedi is their downfall. I suppose you can say that is being a moron, but it doesn't play that way to me.

As far as the political intrigue and hidden agendas go, I don't see any of it as being poorly written. I could agree on criticising dialogue or script (we all know that's not necessarily Lucas' forte), but the overall story and motivations all work perfectly IMHO. The way Palpatine manipulates the Trade Federation and later the Separationists to propel himself to power while gaslighting the Senate, and how he drives a wedge between Anakin and the Jedi Council is perfectly laid out.

And (from what I've read) the problem with how the Jedi are portrayed in The Acolyte, is that they are indeed portrayed as inept. But let's say that they are written as Lucas wrote them in the PT, so it's their hubris and dogma that lead them to screw up. Why would Headland have to follow that "blueprint"? You could just as well write them as knights in shining armour, and point out the contrast between the High Republic Jedi and the Jedi that were outsmarted and outmanoeuvred by the Sith, reinforcing the idea that the Jedi Order and the Republic itself was in decline because of hubris and corruption. But by all accounts Headland and her team decided to go with the idea that the Jedi Order was a failure for hundreds of years...

So no, I don't think Lucas is holding SW hostage, I don't think he's making it hard for good stories to be written.

 

[e30ernest]

And (from what I've read) the problem with how the Jedi are portrayed in The Acolyte, is that they are indeed portrayed as inept. But let's say that they are written as Lucas wrote them in the PT, so it's their hubris and dogma that lead them to screw up. Why would Headland have to follow that "blueprint"? You could just as well write them as knights in shining armour, and point out the contrast between the High Republic Jedi and the Jedi that were outsmarted and outmanoeuvred by the Sith, reinforcing the idea that the Jedi Order and the Republic itself was in decline because of hubris and corruption. But by all accounts Headland and her team decided to go with the idea that the Jedi Order was a failure for hundreds of years...

I wouldn't say they were written as inept, more flawed maybe. They are still very skilled warriors and they are shown to be smart, compassionate and most of all, good.

The Jedi will always be a flawed order. The Sith came from them afterall. However, to show the real height of the Jedi, you'd have to go further back in the Star Wars timeline.

This is the transition between the High Republic era to the order that we see in the prequels. So yes, it makes sense that their decline starts here. At this point in Star Wars, the Jedi are still independent power, but they are starting to get tangled up in politics. Something goes wrong that makes them fall under the Galactic Senate by the time of the prequels. I think the upcoming audit is the start of this, an audit that was triggered by the events of Brendok.

 

[Asta]

Yoda LIED In The Phantom Menace Says The Acolyte Showrunner Leslye Headland! He Knew About The Sith!​

 

[SwedishHeat]

Yoda IS kind of a jerk.

Pretending he was just some random alien that Luke runs into on Dagobah. Stealing R2's stuff. Making Luke go through that whole song and dance, just to be like "Kids these days ..."

 

[YoNoSe]

He was probably checking to see if Luke got the Child Slaughter gene.