Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Dave_W]

Yet I love Leia, Ahsoka, Hera, Mace and Lando!

You know why I find Lizzo in SW vile and reprehensible?

Because Lizzo was poorly integrated while the others were not.

You know what other character I find vile and reprehensible in SW?

Jack Black’s character, a WHITE MALE, go figure!

He was as poorly integrated as Lizzo was.

So poorly actually that fans only know them as Lizzo and Jack Black their real names and not their character names.

Same as Christopher Lloyd another white male that I hated in SW with his lame inclusion.

Can you please stop labeling me with those names if you knew me you would know that I don’t hate women or minorities and that I hold white male characters to the same standards as all characters introduced in movies and TV series.

Never go full KK!

Don’t make me whip out my Willrow Hood trading card lol

If the only thing that mattered to me was that I must have white males in my movies I would love those Terminator sequels after T2 lol

I don't think I said anything like that, in fact I said 'equal opportunities haters' ....I wouldn't label you as one of the major haters anyway, you just seem to enjoy making fun of stuff when it's naff...with really bad photoshop skills I might add

 

[Dave_W]

I love these threads.

 

[The Entity]

Just replace that dead *** main actor with another character. Kill him off.

He's ****. The only film I ever cared for that guy in was Unforgiven. He got his foot waaaaaaay in the door by being in an Eastwood film but he is absolutely **** as an actor imo.

He's the ONE gd weakness of the entire show. And he's the main ****** character...

You mean Open Range perhaps? Kevin Costners film?

 

[a-dev]

You mean Open Range perhaps? Kevin Costners film?

I was wondering...

 

[jaztermareal]

In fairness to the 'haters', Star Wars fans will savagely **** on anything that doesn't meet their expectations. Look at the grief Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best received, even Hayden got abuse at the time. They're equal opportunities haters, but woe betide you being **** and not a white guy, then you're in serious trouble.

It is an often repeated myth that Ahmed, Jake and Hayden had issues due to fan abuse. It was the media abuse that drove them up the wall. The media hounded and smeared them. Even when they state that folk just immediately forget and return to fan blaming.


I think some folk WANT the fanbase to be full of -ist's and -phobes, just so they can have a boogeyman to blame for the failings of their chosen franchise.



Bad content and fan baiting illicits negative responses. If there is a lot of negativity around, it ia because the content and everything around it has been sub-par to downright insulting.


Also, yes, genuine fans will react strongly with anger because when you care deeply about something, it angers you to see it mistreated. All those folk you complain about hating so much simply want the best for the franchise and keep coming back like an abused spouse in the hopes it will improve.

 

[Dave_W]

It is an often repeated myth that Ahmed, Jake and Hayden had issues due to fan abuse. It was the media abuse that drove them up the wall. The media hounded and smeared them. Even when they state that folk just immediately forget and return to fan blaming.

From the man himself...

"Best has touched on the startling toll Jar Jar took on him previously, telling Wired he even got death threats. "I had people come to me and say: 'You destroyed my childhood'," he said. "That's difficult for a 25-year-old to hear."

I think some folk WANT the fanbase to be full of -ist's and -phobes, just so they can have a boogeyman to blame for the failings of their chosen franchise.

I don't know about 'full' but it certainly has them. They're in every walk of life, there's no getting away from it.

Bad content and fan baiting illicits negative responses. If there is a lot of negativity around, it is because the content and everything around it has been sub-par to downright insulting.

Nothing wrong with having a negative response...

Also, yes, genuine fans will react strongly with anger because when you care deeply about something, it angers you to see it mistreated. All those folk you complain about hating so much simply want the best for the franchise and keep coming back like an abused spouse in the hopes it will improve.

...but sometimes the negative responses go too far. It sounds like you're trying to justify the bad **** fans do and downplay what happens from time to time because it might reflect badly on you somehow?

Also, they're just films and TV. If the latest installment isn't to someones liking and it drives them to constantly rage on the internet, they need to get outside and get some fresh air.

 

[SwedishHeat]

It is an often repeated myth that Ahmed, Jake and Hayden had issues due to fan abuse. It was the media abuse that drove them up the wall. The media hounded and smeared them. Even when they state that folk just immediately forget and return to fan blaming.

That's a distinction without a difference. The media reports on what the fans are doing.

Do you think fans loved Jar Jar, and it was the media that hated Jar Jar?

If we had Twitter back in '99, I'm 100% confident, people would've tweeted death threats at Ahmed Best, just like they did Kelly Marie Tran.

 

[wormlander]

I agree that Lizzo was poorly integrated. It was pretty lame. But VILE and REPREHENSIBLE? This is a TV show, not a moral crusade.

It's got nothing to do with morals but all to do with reprehensibly poor taste. Lizzo and Black playing themselves in a Star Wars production is World record level madness...

 

[Sassafras]

But, nearly all the actors you previously mentioned were offed early on. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan ... I mean, that's the trope of the Hero's Journey. The mentor gets killed and the hero has to learn to carry on.

Yes, although SW is a mixed bag in that regard *cough* "no one's ever really gone."

And this show apparently has a jaw-dropping budget - tho maybe Carrie Anne Moss had to be highly paid.

I've got nothing against up and coming actors/actresses either; and a few may be amazing; but even when I think the green one sez something about Jedi being killed - to me it was just dull. Like he/she was saying "they ran out of guacamole, can you believe it with the prices we pay nowadays?"

The hate for this show is not unique, the lack of goodwil is. That was eroded by Disney themselves. Do not assume the audience are at fault or somehow bad people, it certainly isn't that.

Well, yeah. Particularly when you have a showrunner who comes off with some unpleasant gaslighting...something about "what fans need to accept". I've idly pondered the difference in the dumb bludgeoning of an often lifelong fanbase *respect* (and I wouldn't say I'm that, not like many) vs. Favreau's approach.

Favreau had initial good will thanks to the MCU, but he was a "sharer". He carefully explained these new characters and how they meshed with the SW everyone knew. He didn't go on about the intro of Cara, he just put her out there. He didn't tell fans how they should feel. Nobody felt offended. My first reaction to an abrasive showrunner is she could pound sand . I'm a paying customer.

I'm a paying customer who barely noticed the writer's strike because so much of the writing has been so bad - including nerfing Obi-Wan -that like many can hardly believe a series like Andor exists in the same universe. So don't tell me what I need to accept "as a fan". Fans deserve better than checking boxes, messaging, and rehash of now-tired ideas. I wanna see scenes and hear lines that I replay. Shelf-worthy characters.

So maybe this series will be OK. But the showrunner - and some of the actors - didn't do the series any favors ahead of time.

 

[Khev]

And this show apparently has a jaw-dropping budget

Good. That means it will hurt them that much more when it bombs.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Was able to carve out some time to watch this.

Verdict - Worth watching. Was as enjoyable for me as the first season of The Mandalorian.

Notes - If you've seen Russian Doll S1, the tone of what Headland is trying to do here will seem familiar. I was not a fan of Stenberg, she's like Brendan Frasier in The Mummy here, the rest of the cast, writing, aesthetic, action, etc, etc, basically carry a placeholder main character. Lee Jung-jae is the breakout. Zero doubt in my mind, no matter what anyone else says in public, that he wrote much of his own dialogue. Efficient compact self contained storytelling. Maybe the greatest gift that Headland gave to the Stars Wars universe is she created the foundation as to why someone like Ki-Adi Mundi ended up the way he did. ( Dogmatic, legalistic, wildly arrogant, lacks practical empathy, etc, etc) Have to give Headland credit, she had some clear anchors here ( some of this casting was forced on her) and put those situations in places where they could uplifted by other elements that were stronger. Great cast for the most part. Smart decision to grab performers with good established physicality.

Critical Factor - Point to note, what makes this work is it's fundamental storytelling even it was not a Star Wars property. That's the key and always will be. If something can be interesting and compelling even if you took the Star Wars element out. Acolyte is not perfect (Sometimes Stenberg shifts over into cosplay mode too often...) , but IMHO it's headed in the right direction. ( Star Wars operates better in current times if it's scope gets smaller, not bigger)

 

[Johnny Utah]

I'm really looking forward to it to be honest. I like a good murder mystery.

 

[Sassafras]

Was able to carve out some time to watch this.

Verdict - Worth watching. Was as enjoyable for me as the first season of The Mandalorian.

Notes - If you've seen Russian Doll S1, the tone of what Headland is trying to do here will seem familiar. I was not a fan of Stenberg, she's like Brendan Frasier in The Mummy here, the rest of the cast, writing, aesthetic, action, etc, etc, basically carry a placeholder main character. Lee Jung-jae is the breakout. Zero doubt in my mind, no matter what anyone else says in public, that he wrote much of his own dialogue. Efficient compact self contained storytelling. Maybe the greatest gift that Headland gave to the Stars Wars universe is she created the foundation as to why someone like Ki-Adi Mundi ended up the way he did. ( Dogmatic, legalistic, wildly arrogant, lacks practical empathy, etc, etc) Have to give Headland credit, she had some clear anchors here ( some of this casting was forced on her) and put those situations in places where they could uplifted by other elements that were stronger. Great cast for the most part. Smart decision to grab performers with good established physicality.

Critical Factor - Point to note, what makes this work is it's fundamental storytelling even it was not a Star Wars property. That's the key and always will be. If something can be interesting and compelling even if you took the Star Wars element out. Acolyte is not perfect (Sometimes Stenberg shifts over into cosplay mode too often...) , but IMHO it's headed in the right direction. ( Star Wars operates better in current times if it's scope gets smaller, not bigger)

Well, that's a reasonable review.

I doubt I'll enjoy it as much as I took to the Mandalorian (ONLY because I like the downtrodden Outer Rim and the whole "everyman" arc whose world gets overturned - but that's just personal preferences).

If it's better writing than Obi-Wan (and I still wish they would do a S2 with better writing) am surprised Disney cancelled an S2 of this. Dunno how D+ plans to fill its content in the next few years.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Was able to carve out some time to watch this.

I guess I have to ask the dumb question but, you watched the whole season already? And it doesn't start airing till Tuesday ...

Did they give you all the episodes in advance?

 

[TheClient]

Also, yes, genuine fans will react strongly with anger because when you care deeply about something, it angers you to see it mistreated. All those folk you complain about hating so much simply want the best for the franchise and keep coming back like an abused spouse in the hopes it will improve.

I reject your assertion that to be a “genuine” fan I have to get bent out of shape over a subpar tv show, or resort to a “Lucas violated my childhood” level of hyperbole. Just because I usually decide to shrug and move on with my life after a disappointing movie or show, does not make my love of Star Wars inauthentic.

And, with all due respect, if there really are zero -ists or -phobes in the fandom, why am I hearing so much complaining about “not enough white people” in this show?

 

[Sassafras]

I reject your assertion that to be a “genuine” fan I have to get bent out of shape over a subpar tv show, or resort to a “Lucas violated my childhood” level of hyperbole. Just because I usually decide to shrug and move on with my life after a disappointing movie or show, does not make my love of Star Wars inauthentic.

And, with all due respect, if there really are zero -ists or -phobes in the fandom, why am I hearing so much complaining about “not enough white people” in this show?

You don't have to be a "phobe" anything to notice there's a lack of a pretty common demographic - at least in the U.S. and probably Europe - in the cast. Same as that girl power moment in IW.

We all have to suspend disbelief to a degree with these properties, but SW - and I just re-watched the prequels - has a literally amazing mix, especially if you look at the characters just roaming around in the background.

So, if this cast is anything to go by, at face value, are we to assume by the time of the PT all these other character lines died out to be replaced by a bunch of white guys? (Which didn't happen in the PT anyway). It doesn't compute, continuity-wise. Same reaction I'd have if Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was cast with a bunch of Caucasians.

Then again, the showrunner insists we have to accept this brave new world - including, apparently, no old people/aliens. And unbelievably shaded Lucas who has an incredible species/race/age mix.

 

[jaztermareal]

Don't worry, I have seen responses, just busy after over 34 hours (about 24 of them travelling internationally) so am too zonked out to go deep with responses and research etc. Will need sleep etc first

 

[TheClient]

You don't have to be a "phobe" anything to notice there's a lack of a pretty common demographic - at least in the U.S. and probably Europe - in the cast. Same as that girl power moment in IW.

Noticing is one thing. Caring about it and considering it a problem is something else.

And no, I did not notice until the complaining started. Because I do not care.

Because it does not matter.

 

[TheClient]

That's a distinction without a difference. The media reports on what the fans are doing.

Do you think fans loved Jar Jar, and it was the media that hated Jar Jar?

If we had Twitter back in '99, I'm 100% confident, people would've tweeted death threats at Ahmed Best, just like they did Kelly Marie Tran.

You are not wrong. I was on the aint-it-cool-news Talkbacks back in the day. It was ugly.

 

[Dave_W]

You don't have to be a "phobe" anything to notice there's a lack of a pretty common demographic - at least in the U.S. and probably Europe - in the cast. Same as that girl power moment in IW.

We all have to suspend disbelief to a degree with these properties, but SW - and I just re-watched the prequels - has a literally amazing mix, especially if you look at the characters just roaming around in the background.

So, if this cast is anything to go by, at face value, are we to assume by the time of the PT all these other character lines died out to be replaced by a bunch of white guys? (Which didn't happen in the PT anyway). It doesn't compute, continuity-wise. Same reaction I'd have if Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was cast with a bunch of Caucasians.

Then again, the showrunner insists we have to accept this brave new world - including, apparently, no old people/aliens. And unbelievably shaded Lucas who has an incredible species/race/age mix.

You know, it is possible for groups of people to exist that don't have a single white guy, even in white majority countries or even in space when there's more than 1 species? Or are you saying white guys are too important and prevalent in the universe to never not be seen at all times?

Considering people love to complain about wokeness, they sure do like complaining about their representation not existing at all times...almost as if being represented on screen matters or something