Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[jye4ever]

Luke set up a new Jedi academy, some of his students led by BenRen, formed a group called Knights of Ren, they became more interested in digging up the dark past, ie the sith. Their poster boy of course was Vader. Luke ****ed up in their teaching, just like obi-wan did with Vader. Luke was never properly trained either. After the Knights killed all the other Young Jedi, seen in that rainy flashback. Luke decided to go into hiding unsure what to do. He looked for the original Jedi temple to meditate on the situation, look for help perhaps. The Knights (like a bunch of college students with a quija board resurrected Snoke/plaguis. That's why he looks like a dead guy. Then the **** hit the fan. Snoke told them to kill all the Jedi.

Rey is either rens younger sister hidden from kylo when the **** hit the fan or Luke daughter. You see her as a child in the flashback. There is some dialogue from cut scenes in the toys that suggest she is his sister. Leia and Han don't know where she is either, if they knew Kylo would know. It's s sleeping beauty rehash. When it's safe they will get her. Guarding her is max sydows character who has part of the map to get Luke, the other in r2. A fail safe plan. Sydows worked with Luke training Jedi, that's why Ren recognised him at the start of the movie. That's why you see Luke's robot hand on r2 in the trailer shot.
A lot of this came from the original script leaks, which turned out to be largely accurate. There are still suggestions in the movie that Ren knows about Rey "what girl!!!!" And that Han perhaps realises it could be her "who is that girl"..,

Unfortunately I don't like most of that explanation if true.

I'm just having trouble with the 32 year gap being explained away in the crawling text and a few sentences by Han.

Ouija board, Luke's force abilities, Luke hiding, Solo's broken marriage, New Republic, all of it just a confusing blur to me.

Sigh.

I quit the wrong weekend to stop sniffing glue.

 

[JAWS]

My guess for the next film/s..... Ren might go to the light side of the force earlier then we think and Rey is going to go Dark side.... Dramatically it makes sense. Since Rey kicked Ren's ass, if she stays good and he stays bad it ruins the other films a bit from a dramatic perspective...

Of course I could be wrong but now that I had a day to think about it I really feel this was the biggest mistake in the film story wise.

Perhaps they will show him become even more powerful but her powers are going to grow also and again it just sort of hurts the film dramatically to have her so easily beat a Sith. Plus it would give Luke a little more to do... Save Rey while loosing Ren and it gives Fin another chance to save her.

If I am wrong so be it... If I am right you all owe me a coke

 

[Darkseed]

Part of what I enjoyed most about this film. They moved away from the current formula where everything is explained to the audience and resolved within the 2 hr window. Folks complain about the formula but appears it is so ingrained in our viewing expecations it's hard to visualize anything else. No shortage of films coming this year that'll use the formula so faith will be restored.

I am enjoying the conversations speculating what this and that means......reminds me of conversations my friends and I had after ESB hit theaters. It isn't the greatest film or in the series and has many issues but it's fun. That said, its up to the next installments to deliver the goods answering the questions.

 

[DarthNeil]

I've seen the movie three times now-- the first time in 3D on Thursday (in Canada ) and then the last two nights in regular format (in the US )... I merely point that out in the hope that I'm one of the first to see the movie in multiple countries . I think this is the best place to get my thoughts out.

I absolutely loved it. With every viewing I had more questions answered and enjoyed it even more. One of my earliest childhood memories is watching Star Wars in the theatre with my father and my older brother in '77... I still remember the action figures (and own them) that we bought upon exiting the theatre in Greenock, Scotland. A collector was born. Collect for life-- who knew?

The movie brings back the spirituality of the Force. The movie hits all of the right notes-- I haven't read all of the posts before me and I'm sure that others have made some of if not all of these points but for me this movie was the perfect blend of nostalgia (the basic plot points of ANH) while introducing new characters with new paths. Harrison Ford was Han Solo from 1980-- and as opposed to cranky old Indy from TKOTCS it was a joy to watch. One of my favourite scenes (and in fact every scene with Han was fantastic) was the scene with the rathtars because it was classic scoundrel Han balanced with a new twist and it was something that I would have created with my Han Solo action figure in the early 80's. It felt like JJ was doing just that. Creating and telling a story with characters he knew so well just as a fan would create with their toys.

As the father of three kids, two of them girls, I was ecstatic with Daisy Ridley's Rey. She is a wonderful role-model for what a hero should be and I'm excited for my kids to meet her. John Boyega was not playing the character I expected to see-- and that was a great thing as I found his character very enjoyable to watch. I need to see more of Oscar Isaac's Poe Dameron and I'm sure in the following two we will.

Luke Skywalker's reveal was perfect. I can't wait to see what Mark Hamill brings to his character just as Harrison Ford brought his iconic Han Solo back to life.

Questions left unanswered: was that a gravestone next to Luke and is that the gravestone of Rey's mother-- Luke's wife? Is Rey, Luke's daughter-- sent away at a young age to protect her from the dangers of the dark side and possibly to be exposed to the Force in a less structured way just as Luke had been? Did R2 wake up at that moment because he sensed his master (but in reality it was in the form of his daughter Rey)? Is Snoke a clone of Palpatine and will he be revealed to be a fetal sized thing much like the reveal of the Wizard of Oz?

But the biggest question of all-- why in the hell did they release an action figure of Constable Zuvio (3 3/4" and 6" size) if he isn't even in the movie?!?

I loved it. Hope many of you did too. It's a good time to be a fan.

 

[jye4ever]

My guess for the next film/s..... Ren might go to the light side of the force earlier then we think and Rey is going to go Dark side.... Dramatically it makes sense. Since Rey kicked Ren's ass, if she stays good and he stays bad it ruins the other films a bit from a dramatic perspective...

Of course I could be wrong but now that I had a day to think about it I really feel this was the biggest mistake in the film story wise.

Perhaps they will show him become even more powerful but her powers are going to grow also and again it just sort of hurts the film dramatically to have her so easily beat a Sith. Plus it would give Luke a little more to do... Save Rey while loosing Ren and it gives Fin another chance to save her.

If I am wrong so be it... If I am right you all owe me a coke

I like that but what would it do to him killing his father.

Would everyone be like, no worry kid it happens.

 

[Darkseed]

I loved it. Hope many of you did too. It's a good time to be a fan.

Great insightful thoughts....I gain a bigger appreciation for the film each time I watch it. It is a perfect blend of old and new.....the unanswered questions will have fans talking and theorizing until the next installment...fantastic nod to old school film making. Such a fun, happy experience leaving me wanting more.....agreed about great time to be a fan

 

[xipotec]

They should have given hints of her abilities early in the film to make those later scenes make more sense. Seriously, Luke who is the son of Anakin ******** Skywalker could barely move a lightsaber from the snow in the beginning of the ESB after receiving some basic training from one of the best Jedi ever, but this chick can mind **** a guy who's almost a Jedi, use jedi mind tricks on people, grab the lighsaber from 20 feet away using the force, and completely dominate the villain who could easily stop a blaster shot in mid air? GTFOH....

It actually fits fine, again Luke was seriously injured by the Wampa. He collapses minutes after escaping, hanging upside down after being knocked fromyour space horse is traumatic.

I think many fans fail to realize that Luke DID use the force in a major way before he was trained in any major way. He had just been taught about the force by Ben and he went and turn off his targeting computer and MOVED THE TORPEDOES WITH THE FORCE. The only reason Luke hit the exaust port is he used the force to aim huge torpedoes into a 3 meter port.

 

[jye4ever]

It actually fits fine, again Luke was seriously injured by the Wampa. He collapses minutes after escaping, hanging upside down after being knocked fromyour space horse is traumatic.

I think many fans fail to realize that Luke DID use the force in a major way before he was trained in any major way. He had just been taught about the force by Ben and he went and turn off his targeting computer and MOVED THE TORPEDOES WITH THE FORCE. The only reason Luke hit the exaust port is he used the force to aim huge torpedoes into a 3 meter port.

Very true about SW and targeting computer, but he was the son of a very powerful Jedi.

Which obviously points to Rey being a Skywalker.

 

[DiFabio]

Luke made mistakes and was relatable. He wasn't a chosen one, he didn't have force visions. He was a farm boy raised by his aunt and uncle that just wanted to go to the Imperial Academy after the harvest. Then he meets with Ben, but really doesn't want to get involved because of his uncle'a world views. When he got Anakin's lightsaber, he didn't start spazzing out with force visions or any crap. He clipped it to his belt and told Ben he'd take him as far as Anchorhead. The saber was just his father's weapon, not a piece of the force that was "calling out to him".

Luke wasn't perfect. He got beaten up and knocked out by Sandpeople. Thrown around by cantina patrons. Needed help from Princess Leia during the Death Star. Was almost crushed to death by the trash compactor. Yeah, he destroys the Death Star, but with Obi-Wan's guidance of letting go and Han and Chewbacca's help. In Empire, it opens with him getting WRECKED by a Wampa. Sure, he gets his lightsaber out of the snow with some heavy concentration, but he also passes out in the snow, is saved from death by Han and screws up royally in the AT-AT battle when he's shot down and his co-pilot is killed. Then throughout Empire he messes up. He ****s up by not recognizing Yoda. He messes up his training and he gets completely wrecked by Darth Vader.


Rey on the other hand is perfect. She can do no wrong. What's the biggest problem or flaw she had? Running away from the weird little orange CGI thing's temple and not accepting her gift and super duper force powers? She's more like Neo from the Matrix or Harry Potter from those movies. She's the "special", gifted character that can do no wrong. She was never a peseant just like Cinderella was never really a lowly stepsister. She's this great and powerful being that just has the force awaken inside her. I liked her parts in the beginning, having the compassion of not selling BB-8 for those shares or schooling Han with his Millenium Falcon, but then about midway through, she can seemingly do everything without a problem. She is completely flawless and definitely some kind of chosen one archetype.

 

[xipotec]

Very true about SW and targeting computer, but he was the son of a very powerful Jedi.

Which obviously points to Rey being a Skywalker.

There ya go!

I am a huge student of film, especially these, and I love to theorize about what went unexplained. It really pisses people off to have to think about a movie these days, but thats what makes it fun. JJ is very very smart, he left these hole so we would do exactly what we are doing, talking about them until the inevitable answer come ...if you got every answer why see a sequel?

Best fit theories right now....

1. Rey hugs Leia over Chewie because she does remember her , as her aunt who just lost her ex husband. (Rey clearly knew who Solo was....solo didn't know her because he left before any of this happened)

2. Kylo is a puppet and unstable mentally , hence the very unstable power and unpredictable powers.

3. JJ wants it known that being calm and centered makes you very very strong with the force. (OT nod to Yodas teaching and Lukes biggest obstacle)

Now will someone PLEASE verify that I saw Kylo drop his helmet in a container of ashes in the first reveal of his face!!! This is hugely important!!!!

 

[DarthNeil]

Now will someone PLEASE verify that I saw Kylo drop his helmet in a container of ashes in the first reveal of his face!!! This is hugely important!!!!

Yes, it did appear to be dropped on top of what looked like ashes.

 

[Darkseed]

When Rey was presented the sabre she didn't want it nor to be involved...instead she wanted to go home (ala Luke's reluctance with Ben and commitment to staying home). She didn't wield the sabre until Finn's ass whooping. I'm not certain she was perfect but unlike Luke, I suspect she had prior training before being sent to Jakku. That would account for her knowledge whereas Luke was clueless about the force.

My take is the force can be learned easily as Luke training with Ben wasn't long he was deflect probe blast and using it to blow up a Death Star. ESB he is able to call the sabre to him while in the Wampa's lair ...who taught him that trick? He seemed pretty surprised to see Ben's ghost a few minutes later. Bottom line....both situations took liberties with their knowledge of their gifts. If I bought on story..pretty easy to buy the other one.

 

[JAWS]

I like that but what would it do to him killing his father.

Would everyone be like, no worry kid it happens.

I thought of that.. It's my one hang up... I am not saying he is going to go completely good but it just seems like something like that should happen for Drama sake... At least Rey going dark side would make sense.

Anyways we all ended up having to forgive Vader the Child Killer

Of course those films still never happened

 

[JAWS]

Luke made mistakes and was relatable. He wasn't a chosen one, he didn't have force visions. He was a farm boy raised by his aunt and uncle that just wanted to go to the Imperial Academy after the harvest. Then he meets with Ben, but really doesn't want to get involved because of his uncle'a world views. When he got Anakin's lightsaber, he didn't start spazzing out with force visions or any crap. He clipped it to his belt and told Ben he'd take him as far as Anchorhead. The saber was just his father's weapon, not a piece of the force that was "calling out to him".

Luke wasn't perfect. He got beaten up and knocked out by Sandpeople. Thrown around by cantina patrons. Needed help from Princess Leia during the Death Star. Was almost crushed to death by the trash compactor. Yeah, he destroys the Death Star, but with Obi-Wan's guidance of letting go and Han and Chewbacca's help. In Empire, it opens with him getting WRECKED by a Wampa. Sure, he gets his lightsaber out of the snow with some heavy concentration, but he also passes out in the snow, is saved from death by Han and screws up royally in the AT-AT battle when he's shot down and his co-pilot is killed. Then throughout Empire he messes up. He ****s up by not recognizing Yoda. He messes up his training and he gets completely wrecked by Darth Vader.


Rey on the other hand is perfect. She can do no wrong. What's the biggest problem or flaw she had? Running away from the weird little orange CGI thing's temple and not accepting her gift and super duper force powers? She's more like Neo from the Matrix or Harry Potter from those movies. She's the "special", gifted character that can do no wrong. She was never a peseant just like Cinderella was never really a lowly stepsister. She's this great and powerful being that just has the force awaken inside her. I liked her parts in the beginning, having the compassion of not selling BB-8 for those shares or schooling Han with his Millenium Falcon, but then about midway through, she can seemingly do everything without a problem. She is completely flawless and definitely some kind of chosen one archetype.

I agree with all of this

 

[jye4ever]

I'm still not convinced that all these unanswered questions are because of sophisticated intelligent writing created the old school way to make us think about the possibilities.

I certainly wasn't expecting 32 years explained in detail but maybe a series of scenes like it was done in FOTR would've helped with the current world we were thrust into.

"Our divorce lawyer It's all true, all of it!"

Couldn't they at least showed what happened with ****ing Wicket lol!

And WTF was up with the lame ass boring new music, it sounded like a poor rip off LOTR music more than anything else.

 

[Darkseed]

Music wasn't memorable that I agree. I don't care why Han and Leia aren't together (assume Kylo) nor what happened to Wicket, Lando etc. The story ended 30 years ago so the details behind that are unimportant to me. My expectations for the film wasn't to catch us up from the past 30 yrs moreso what is happening at the moment.

Why is Luke hiding, what happened to his academy, why is Kylo dark etc. Those are the stories I am interested in and I believe they'll be told later. If not then the entire premise of the series is a fail.

 

[PopCultKid]

A little disappointed that this isn't getting the universal praise I thought it would but I guess I should've known better . Interesting to see the mixed feelings on some of the characters and story in general. I'll be finding out for myself in 15 minutes!

 

[JAWS]

I'm still not convinced that all these unanswered questions are because of sophisticated intelligent writing created the old school way to make us think about the possibilities.

I certainly wasn't expecting 32 years explained in detail but maybe a series of scenes like it was done in FOTR would've helped with the current world we were thrust into.

"Our divorce lawyer It's all true, all of it!"

Couldn't they at least showed what happened with ****ing Wicket!

And WTF was up with the lame ass boring new music, it sounded like a poor rip off LOTR music than anything else.

A better score would have helped a lot... It lacked so much. There was not one memorable themes or exciting cue other then some of the old stuff. Remember the attack of the Ties on the Falcon in A new Hope and the music that was scored there.. Where was the music like that? It would have helped a lot...

Lack of a memorable action scene hurt also.

A fellow freak pointed out that it sucked not to see Luke Leia, ad Han together after all these years... I kinda agree but get why they didn't.

I don't know if I like the film any more today... But I accept it more. I am trying to think of the big picture with the other films coming.

 

[JAWS]

Why is Luke hiding, what happened to his academy, why is Kylo dark etc. Those are the stories I am interested in and I believe they'll be told later. If not then the entire premise of the series is a fail.

Worst Uncle ever.. That's why

Seriously I kinda hate that Luke loses his nephew to the Dark Side and there is a new powerful military trying to take over the Galaxy and he just decides to Hide.

But I need to start thinking more of the big picture... All of this may be explained later.

 

[a-dev]

I'm thinking many people didn't lower their expectations enough. All I wanted out of this was ''for godsakes please bring back some natural flow to acting, line delivery and dialogue exchanges between characters - some life in people's voices'' - we got that.

I can't watch the PT anymore principally because everyone is so wooden and monotone, delivering boring lines while sitting on couches or walking in an environment where only a few metres of the floor is even actually there.