Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[Darth Snoopy]

EDIT: Oh FFS with the "breath on a thread and it closes" button.

​

 

[Khev]

That was with my laptop keyboard too so I can't blame my phone's touch screen.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

That was with my laptop keyboard too so I can't blame my phone's touch screen.

I'm usually all thumbs when I'm using my tablet!

 

[jye4ever]

Though I do admit that they went "less is more" to a fault. I would have loved to have seen an A-Wing or two or even some brand new fighters accompanying the X-Wings to Starkiller Base. But they erred on the side of caution I suppose.

While I know they had to save elements for the other movies I don't know if E7 should've been the one they went conservative with.

Oh well, we still have alot more quality SW ahead of us to look forward too.

 

[xipotec]

Though I do admit that they went "less is more" to a fault. I would have loved to have seen an A-Wing or two or even some brand new fighters accompanying the X-Wings to Starkiller Base. But they erred on the side of caution I suppose.




Thank God Lucas went "backwards" in 1999 and made the prequels instead of continuing the stories of Han, Luke, and Leia. Just imagine watching old Jedi Master Luke doing this ****:

EDIT: Oh FFS with the "breathe on a thread and it closes" button.

The problem with this and most of the PT is that when you ignore physics so brashly, no matter how super human the character is suppose to be, and no matter how real it looks.....our primitive human brains just can't take it......

There is a point at which weight and mass and force all are calculated in our brains and we quickly realize that "DAT DO NO LOOK RIGHT"

 

[kryptonianmutie]

That's one way to kill off mosquitoes.

 

[Khev]

I was so impressed with the Darth Maul PF currently on display at SDCC that I decided to give TPM another chance. What a lifeless and nerdy film. Yeah, "nerdy." Like old Star Trek nerdy. Just a bunch of science-fiction characters walking around statically reciting science-fiction lines. I experienced no range of emotions other than boredom and a mild appreciation for the film's art direction.

Why does no one speak in the PT unless they're a main character? Where are the Wedges complaining about computers not being able to hit exhaust ports or random pilots mouthing off to Leia about protecting transports as they escape from Hoth? Or a bunch of no-name personnel brainstorming about how to take out Starkiller Base? All the pilots and even squad leaders like Ric Ollie in TPM do nothing but stand or sit around totally lifelessly in the background while Jedi and queens discuss military tactics. "But what if the shields on Gunray's ship can't be penetrated?" "Who cares? They're just pilots who refuse to speak up, who needs 'em?" "You're right, lets attack."

Darth Maul is still cool but they didn't really let him do anything. The non-Jedi should have been crapping their pants when the hangar doors opened and he was standing there. And if they *weren't* impressed (which was obvious based on their bored reactions) then one or 10 of them should have just opened fire and been done with him. What would have been cool would have been if Panaka said "Step back my lady" and fired at Maul who then deflected the attack back and instantly killed Panaka. Why did he even need to survive the film? So he could say "Ascension guns" a few scenes later? Padme should have come into her own and been giving those orders at that point. It would have been a great moment if Maul effortlessly dispatched a character with a substantial amount of speaking lines in the film prior to the big duel. And then everyone goes running. How are we supposed to have a feeling of "yeah, get him!" toward a villain who has never actually killed or even harmed anyone? I mean Lucas had Vader crushing people's necks with his bare hands in his first few minutes on screen. Meh, why am I typing all this.

These are not good movies, they don't feel like Star Wars, and there's just no life in them. And of course this is old news but I really wanted to see if TFA somehow altered my perspective. Nope.

 

[NASEDO]

The Force Awakens is complete garbage.

 

[Khev]

Complete garbage eh? Well I'm glad you're here to tell us these things. Chewie take the millennial and plug him into the hyperdrive!

 

[Darth Snoopy]

 

[Khev]

Oh and I noticed that in the TPM credits it said "Jabba the Hutt as HIMSELF." Did Lucas think he was making The Naked Gun?

 

[Prime Clone]

These are not good movies, they don't feel like Star Wars, and there's just no life in them. And of course this is old news but I really wanted to see if TFA somehow altered my perspective. Nope.

I agree with you on TPM, but I thought the prequels got progressively better, to the point ROTS was in the same league as the OT. In face I find it hard to separate ROTJ, ROTS and TFA.

Also bear in mind the PT was purposely tonally different, to convey the height of the Republic, when everything was regal and bureaucratic. A different feel to a "rag-tag bunch of underground freedom fighters".

The prequels "rhyme" with the OT, TFA just plain copies it.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Oh and I noticed that in the TPM credits it said "Jabba the Hutt as HIMSELF." Did Lucas think he was making The Naked Gun?

 

[Khev]

I agree with you on TPM, but I thought the prequels got progressively better, to the point ROTS was in the same league as the OT. In face I find it hard to separate ROTJ, ROTS and TFA.

Are you trying to trick me into giving AOTC and ROTS another chance?

Also bear in mind the PT was purposely tonally different, to convey the height of the Republic, when everything was regal and bureaucratic. A different feel to a "rag-tag bunch of underground freedom fighters".

I'm kind of glad you brought that up because it illuminates another problem with the PT. And that is the incessant focus on bureaucrats, whether they be politicians, trade viceroys, or Jedi. You can have a universe where all those things are present but for heaven's sake don't focus on them. I am convinced that Jedi are only cool in very small numbers and only when accompanied by more rugged characters. Imagine a LOTR film with no rangers, elven archers, dwarves, or knights. Just wizards walking around talking about magic and prophecies. Boring. Gandalf is awesome but like Old Ben he really needs to be a supporting character to the cool heroes.

And TFA also began with the Republic at the height of power again. And we didn't hear **** from those bureacrats. Well done Abrams.

The prequels "rhyme" with the OT, TFA just plain copies it.

You (and in your defense many others before you) have confused "copying objectives" with "copying a movie." They aren't the same thing. Yep TFA gave us the droid in the sand with important info and a planet destroying base that needs to be blown up. But I think complaining about a SW film featuring an objective to blow up an enemy's base is a little silly. It's just what both the good AND bad guys DO in these movies. In SW Alderaan got blown up. And then the Death Star. In ESB the Hoth shield generator. In Jedi the DSII. And then of course in TFA we have the Senate and Starkiller Base being destroyed. A little late to cry foul on that foundational plotline. Might as well complain complain about all the WWII films that feature identical tactics with one another. Or any war film of a shared era.

Because when you get right down to it a lot of the fun in TFA is that it takes those SW elements that the audience is already familiar with and then turns them on their head or deviates sharply.

Astromech droid with info. What info, technical plans to Starkiller Base? Nope, a map that has nothing to do with defeating the immediate threat. The MacGuffin that drives the ENTIRE film has literally no parallel anywhere in the OT.

And the entire through-line with Finn and Kylo Ren that is established in the very first sequence when they kind of stare each other down on Jakku. And then Kylo hears of his treachery and knows immediately that it's him. And then hears Finn's name again in conjunction with news of the Falcon escaping the planet. They really built up the Kylo/Finn showdown right up to the final duel and then completely usurp it with Rey's ascension as the main hero. You didn't have that in the Star Wars OT. For three straight films it was all Luke from the point of his introduction to the very end. They flirted with "there is another" but it turned out to be a throw-away gimmick meant to make him seem expendable on Bespin.

Rey really didn't have a stake in the Resistance/First Order fight. She's not the "Luke" of the story as so many like to suggest. Yeah she grew up in a desert and learns to use the Force. I like to think that there's just a *little* more to Luke Skywalker than those two specific aspects of his character. She's a scavenger (unlike Luke.) She has no family (unlike Luke.) She doesn't want to leave the planet and be an adventurer (unlike Luke.) She has no interest or even much knowledge of the conflict between the Resistance and First Order (unlike Luke.) She literally just makes friends with BB-8 and wants to help out her little buddy. That's it. Finn marks her so that the First Order chases her off the planet. Thus her journey begins. It's just such a paper thin supposition to make her out as a carbon copy of Luke or any OT character.

Does she fly a fighter? No. Does she blow up Starkiller Base? No. I really could just go on and on.

Finn's goals overlap a bit with Rey's in that he also wants to help a friend, one who he believed was killed while helping him escape. So Rey wants to help BB-8 because she likes and sympathizes with him and Finn wants to help BB-8 in order to repay Poe for his assistance posthumously. Where do these motivations of the primary heroes exist in the OT? Nowhere. And these are the motivations that drive the story.

The Rathtar sequence and attack on Takodana are major setpieces and action sequences that combined probably take up an entire third of the film. And *again,* absolutely no parallel with anything in the OT. Yeah, Takodana had a bar. That's just a Star Wars-ey setting at this point. It served a completely different purpose than the original cantina and had totally different results.

Now I don't expect to change anyone's mind about TFA. The whole "it's a remake of ANH" is just an erroneous narrative that people have latched onto and we're in the day and age where people just don't let go of their pet narratives, facts be damned. But as far as misnomers go, that one is pretty easy to dismantle. Yes the overall military objectives are the same. Even I admit that Han Solo on a planet deactivating shields so that X-Wings can assault a big battle station is a pretty freaking specific thing to repeat. But we're still talking about a two hour film here where the paths to get to those points were very different as were the end results (particularly for Mr. Solo.)

 

[Prime Clone]

Admittedly the similarities between TFA and ANH weren't that obvious to me until they were pointed out, but once they were I couldn't unsee them.

And I agree TFA was *mostly* superior to the PT. I just don't hate on the prequels like most around here.

 

[Khev]

Admittedly the similarities between TFA and ANH weren't that obvious to me until they were pointed out, but once they were I couldn't unsee them.

Yeah, I know you weren't the one who perpetuated the whole "remake" label or anything. But if you have people go, "Oh my gosh, a droid in the sand with important info, then the heroes meet Han and Chewie, one of them gets a lightsaber and starts to learn to use the Force and they attack a planet-destroying base at the end!" then people are going to freak out and scream "remake." But no one prior to TFA actually described Star Wars that way. It was the "story of a boy, a girl, and a galaxy," and if anyone ever got into the specifics of what it was about they'd mention the characters themselves and what drove them, not some trajectory summary of a droid rolling around in the sand with information. Just like if anyone has to summarize ESB they don't go "well it's about a droid that floats above the snow, and then some giant walkers, and then some training and then heroes who face evil in a floating city." Those broad sweeps in and of themselves don't make a movie and people don't talk like that anyway. But with TFA some people feel the need to call out a couple overlapping story objectives and act like they overshadow the actual characters, motivations, and dramatic arcs which are nothing like what we saw before.

And I agree TFA was *mostly* superior to the PT. I just don't hate on the prequels like most around here.

I will say that I do think that TFA made a bit of a "prequel mistake" with how it glossed over the relationship between the Resistance and the Republic and how they are offset by the rising First Order. The pieces are there but you really have to take a moment to connect the dots and I wasn't totally clear on how that all fit after my first viewing. Which is a little bit like the PT having this big damn prophecy about the "Chosen One" be such a huge deal but then not have anyone explain what the hell the prophecy actually said.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Khevtron: Defender of the Movieverse

 

[Khev]

 

[rushmore223]

Are you trying to trick me into giving AOTC and ROTS another chance?



I'm kind of glad you brought that up because it illuminates another problem with the PT. And that is the incessant focus on bureaucrats, whether they be politicians, trade viceroys, or Jedi. You can have a universe where all those things are present but for heaven's sake don't focus on them. I am convinced that Jedi are only cool in very small numbers and only when accompanied by more rugged characters. Imagine a LOTR film with no rangers, elven archers, dwarves, or knights. Just wizards walking around talking about magic and prophecies. Boring. Gandalf is awesome but like Old Ben he really needs to be a supporting character to the cool heroes.

And TFA also began with the Republic at the height of power again. And we didn't hear **** from those bureacrats. Well done Abrams.



You (and in your defense many others before you) have confused "copying objectives" with "copying a movie." They aren't the same thing. Yep TFA gave us the droid in the sand with important info and a planet destroying base that needs to be blown up. But I think complaining about a SW film featuring an objective to blow up an enemy's base is a little silly. It's just what both the good AND bad guys DO in these movies. In SW Alderaan got blown up. And then the Death Star. In ESB the Hoth shield generator. In Jedi the DSII. And then of course in TFA we have the Senate and Starkiller Base being destroyed. A little late to cry foul on that foundational plotline. Might as well complain complain about all the WWII films that feature identical tactics with one another. Or any war film of a shared era.

Because when you get right down to it a lot of the fun in TFA is that it takes those SW elements that the audience is already familiar with and then turns them on their head or deviates sharply.

Astromech droid with info. What info, technical plans to Starkiller Base? Nope, a map that has nothing to do with defeating the immediate threat. The MacGuffin that drives the ENTIRE film has literally no parallel anywhere in the OT.

And the entire through-line with Finn and Kylo Ren that is established in the very first sequence when they kind of stare each other down on Jakku. And then Kylo hears of his treachery and knows immediately that it's him. And then hears Finn's name again in conjunction with news of the Falcon escaping the planet. They really built up the Kylo/Finn showdown right up to the final duel and then completely usurp it with Rey's ascension as the main hero. You didn't have that in the Star Wars OT. For three straight films it was all Luke from the point of his introduction to the very end. They flirted with "there is another" but it turned out to be a throw-away gimmick meant to make him seem expendable on Bespin.

Rey really didn't have a stake in the Resistance/First Order fight. She's not the "Luke" of the story as so many like to suggest. Yeah she grew up in a desert and learns to use the Force. I like to think that there's just a *little* more to Luke Skywalker than those two specific aspects of his character. She's a scavenger (unlike Luke.) She has no family (unlike Luke.) She doesn't want to leave the planet and be an adventurer (unlike Luke.) She has no interest or even much knowledge of the conflict between the Resistance and First Order (unlike Luke.) She literally just makes friends with BB-8 and wants to help out her little buddy. That's it. Finn marks her so that the First Order chases her off the planet. Thus her journey begins. It's just such a paper thin supposition to make her out as a carbon copy of Luke or any OT character.

Does she fly a fighter? No. Does she blow up Starkiller Base? No. I really could just go on and on.

Finn's goals overlap a bit with Rey's in that he also wants to help a friend, one who he believed was killed while helping him escape. So Rey wants to help BB-8 because she likes and sympathizes with him and Finn wants to help BB-8 in order to repay Poe for his assistance posthumously. Where do these motivations of the primary heroes exist in the OT? Nowhere. And these are the motivations that drive the story.

The Rathtar sequence and attack on Takodana are major setpieces and action sequences that combined probably take up an entire third of the film. And *again,* absolutely no parallel with anything in the OT. Yeah, Takodana had a bar. That's just a Star Wars-ey setting at this point. It served a completely different purpose than the original cantina and had totally different results.

Now I don't expect to change anyone's mind about TFA. The whole "it's a remake of ANH" is just an erroneous narrative that people have latched onto and we're in the day and age where people just don't let go of their pet narratives, facts be damned. But as far as misnomers go, that one is pretty easy to dismantle. Yes the overall military objectives are the same. Even I admit that Han Solo on a planet deactivating shields so that X-Wings can assault a big battle station is a pretty freaking specific thing to repeat. But we're still talking about a two hour film here where the paths to get to those points were very different as were the end results (particularly for Mr. Solo.)

I've made many of those arguments before, but I think you worded it better than I did.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

I've made many of those arguments before, but I think you worded it better than I did.

That's why Dave pays Khev the big bucks.