Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[crows]

If you like playing a sport you enjoyed as a child, as a teenager, and as a young adult, are you clinging to nostalgia? No, you're simply doing something you like to do. Same with any other event or experience that people enjoy over the decades.

Mmmmmmm..............yes...............

 

[Khev]

It's an impossibly thin line between 'retread' and stuff that 'doesn't feel like Star Wars'.

Yep people complained about the TFA character objectives that mirrored ANH and then complained about things like the two gangs who confronted Han because they "wandered in from another movie."

So everything needs to be new but it also can't be anything new...

 

[DiFabio]

An solo yer a ded mon was my favorite line in TFA.

 

[Khev]

"Tasu Leech. Good to see you" was mine.

 

[a-dev]

I don't buy into the "nostalgia button" narrative. LFL is simply giving people the Star Wars that they never wanted to see go away. If you like playing a sport you enjoyed as a child, as a teenager, and as a young adult, are you clinging to nostalgia? No, you're simply doing something you like to do. Same with any other event or experience that people enjoy over the decades.

Did people love ROTJ in 1983 because of "nostalgia?" That's why we were into Vader and the space battle and Han and Luke and Leia? No, it's just what we were into *period.* It had nothing to do with clinging to the past (all six years of it.) And for millions of people that interest never faded and Disney simply recognized that Lucas went *way* off the rails and is simply righting the ship. Rogue One would have been great in 1986, 1996, and yes 2016.

I like this post.

 

[TonTon]

I don't buy into the "nostalgia button" narrative. LFL is simply giving people the Star Wars that they never wanted to see go away. If you like playing a sport you enjoyed as a child, as a teenager, and as a young adult, are you clinging to nostalgia? No, you're simply doing something you like to do. Same with any other event or experience that people enjoy over the decades.

Did people love ROTJ in 1983 because of "nostalgia?" That's why we were into Vader and the space battle and Han and Luke and Leia? No, it's just what we were into *period.* It had nothing to do with clinging to the past (all six years of it.) And for millions of people that interest never faded and Disney simply recognized that Lucas went *way* off the rails and is simply righting the ship. Rogue One would have been great in 1986, 1996, and yes 2016.

 

[Prime Clone]

I don't buy into the "nostalgia button" narrative. LFL is simply giving people the Star Wars that they never wanted to see go away.

So far they've only succeeded by channelling or expanding on ANH. The "Star Wars people want to see" must be a very limited experience.

I predict VIII and IX will be as divisive as the prequels cos they'll break new ground. VIII has already been described as very un-SW.

 

[jye4ever]

I hear ya, those A-Wings will totally confuse me with what movie i'm watching.

 

[TonTon]

Yep people complained about the TFA character objectives that mirrored ANH and then complained about things like the two gangs who confronted Han because they "wandered in from another movie."

So everything needs to be new but it also can't be anything new...

That entire scene was just bad from start to finish. Only WTF type of scene for me in TFA. I don't mind the scenario so much as the execution. Rathtar's were terrible concept and the gangs just felt like a wasted opportunity for SW alien species we know (to establish that besides Han, blasters, and lightsabers, we are indeed in the same universe). Rogue One didn't do any better on that last point, to be honest, but the new aliens and many of the new characters they introduced were awesome looking and felt more like SW than the Guavian Death Gang and many of the Maz castle people--I swear there's one dude there dressed up like Seth Green from Can't Hardly Wait.

 

[Khev]

So far they've only succeeded by channelling or expanding on ANH. The "Star Wars people want to see" must be a very limited experience.

I predict VIII and IX will be as divisive as the prequels cos they'll break new ground. VIII has already been described as very un-SW.

If Episodes 8 and 9 are well made like the OT, TFA, and RO then they'll be embraced. If they're poorly made like the PT then they won't be. Simple as that.

 

[Khev]

That entire scene was just bad from start to finish. Only WTF type of scene for me in TFA.

I deliberately chose that sequence as an example because I know it's a trigger for a lot of people. Abrams definitely went for something new with the Death Gangs and Rathtars but it clearly didn't strike a chord with many viewers.

 

[DiFabio]

I thought the orange Yoda woman and her cantina was worse than the Rathtars scene. The gang dudes looking for Han reminded me of something out of a Sy Fy TV movie and the tentacle monster was stupid, but I didn't think it was that bad.

 

[TonTon]

The rathtars are his, "Hey remember the PT?" moment. He's just trolling the audience there.

 

[xipotec]

So lemme see if I get the consensus.

TFA was to much like ANH plot wise.....

RO played to much on nostalgia and "memba this moments".

They sound like the same thing to me.....

After all, what was RO?

RO: Somebody's got to steal the plans.
TFA: somebody's got to return the plans.

RO: Bad guy wants to safeguard the plans.
TFA : bad guys wants plans back.

RO: group of underdogs fight overwhelming odds.
TFA: group of underdogs fight overwhelming odds.

RO: droid provides comic relief.
TFA: same

RO: relies heavy on cameos and references to ANH.
TFA: relies heavy on plot points from ANH.

Ro: female hero
TFA: same

RO: space battle need to destroy big evil object blocking final objective.
TFA: big sky battle needed to...ect etc etc.

RO: segways into OT
TFA : segways out of OT

There are a bunch more but you get the point.

Personally , I found the first half of RO so flawed in pace , filming and plot that it bored me to the point of almost giving up. The amazing thrid act though does not excuse it or make the first half any better.

To me , TFA edges out RO by a hair......only because it feels more like the tone of all the other films, while RO feels like a SW film made for a slightly more aged and male audience. Meaning darker and more serious . Especially compare to the more lighthearted adventure TFA is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Lejuan]

That's a pretty selective and vague breakdown

For example you're listing "female hero" as a point of similarity? The sex of the protagonist is where that similarity ends. Rey is just Luke Skywalker in a skirt, so to speak, but with an inexplicable ability to leapfrog remotely plausible force training.

In just about every respect, TFA's pacing and story arcs had so much overlap with ANH it was embarrassing. RO's distinctions were more substantial than your dot-points suggest.

I'm with you on the pacing of the first and middle act, it dragged a lot - but ANH 2.0 it ain't.

 

[matticus]

The rathtars are his, "Hey remember the PT?" moment. He's just trolling the audience there.

They looked like the aliens from Men In Black. Abrams...

 

[karamazov80]

If you like playing a sport you enjoyed as a child, as a teenager, and as a young adult, are you clinging to nostalgia?

"Clinging to nostalgia?" Not necessarily. But does nostalgia play a key role? Absolutely. The stuff we are exposed to as kids has a critical influence on what we are into as adults. If you are an American, who grew up playing football and baseball, and move to a country where the primary sport is soccer, you're still going to prefer football and baseball. This will continue to be the case even if you are enmeshed into that country for years and become pretty well integrated into that society. The same phenomenon drives most of our collecting habits on this forum.

Same with music, or even politics and religion. There are exceptions of course, but you shouldn't underestimate the impact of formative events and experiences. Can you not relate to Citizen Kane?

Did people love ROTJ in 1983 because of "nostalgia?" That's why we were into Vader and the space battle and Han and Luke and Leia? No, it's just what we were into *period.* It had nothing to do with clinging to the past (all six years of it.) And for millions of people that interest never faded and Disney simply recognized that Lucas went *way* off the rails and is simply righting the ship. Rogue One would have been great in 1986, 1996, and yes 2016.

We were into the original Star Wars movies because they were distinctive and great at appealing to kids at that time. There was nothing else coming close to providing that type of entertainment in that way to kids. Almost all attempts to replicate their success were failures. But yes, a big part of the love of Jedi was the fact that we knew and cared about those characters. Because as much as I defend that film, I also acknowledge that it pales compared to the first and second films. So, without them, if you just plopped Jedi into our laps, I do think it would have been a success. But maybe on the order of Goonies or Gremlins. Something we look fondly back on, but certainly not the cultural touchstone that this franchise was, leading to massively successful sequels and prequels and spinoffs, etc.

I should add though, that I'm not criticizing anyone who supports these movies here. I'm also not trying to use nostalgia as a bad word, though your post characterizes it that way a bit. Just look at my avatar! But I do think there is a limit on what you can do creatively and artistically when the producers, writers, and directors are compelled to harken so strongly back to what worked on us old folks on an emotional level when we were kids in order to have a film succeed today. I don't think they should ignore that aspect completely, but I do think there could be more of a balance, where less of a focus is on reminding us about things that we are nostalgic about. TFA has the basic structure of Episode 4, and the main characters are offspring of the main characters we first saw 40 years ago. Rogue One has countless call-backs to the same film, some justified more than others. We're getting a Han Solo prequel. We'll probably get a Boba Fett and Obi Wan prequel in time. Darth Vader is never going away completely. We'll probably have a half dozen more Death Stars or the equivalent when all is said and done. These things don't occur accidentally.

 

[a-dev]

"Clinging to nostalgia?" Not necessarily. But does nostalgia play a key role? Absolutely. The stuff we are exposed to as kids has a critical influence on what we are into as adults. If you are an American, who grew up playing football and baseball, and move to a country where the primary sport is soccer, you're still going to prefer football and baseball

Hnnnnnggggggg

 

[karamazov80]

Hnnnnnggggggg

Sorry, I forgot you guys use the wrong name for that sport.

 

[a-dev]

Sorry, I forgot you guys use the wrong name for that sport.