Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[ZaCHw117]

Sorry, I forgot you guys use the wrong name for that sport.

that's just the sound a-dev makes when he thinks about any sport.

I know cause I'm the same.

 

[Khev]

"Clinging to nostalgia?" Not necessarily. But does nostalgia play a key role? Absolutely.

Not as key as you think. There has never been a magic formula for having films be a success. If pressing a nostalgia button did the trick then we wouldn't have had so many remakes bomb this past decade. Certain properties have built in audiences yes but that applies to films of any era, whether it be Star Wars, Harry Potter or The Hunger Games. Disney isn't playing the nostalgia card, they are simply recognizing what their built in audiences want to see and making good enough films (<-----and that is the defining "key role" at play here) that new and casual fans get brought on board as well.

The stuff we are exposed to as kids has a critical influence on what we are into as adults. If you are an American, who grew up playing football and baseball, and move to a country where the primary sport is soccer, you're still going to prefer football and baseball. This will continue to be the case even if you are enmeshed into that country for years and become pretty well integrated into that society. The same phenomenon drives most of our collecting habits on this forum.

Exactly. A lifelong passion that began in childhood is not "nostalgia." Nostalgia requires leaving something in the past and then later wanting to reconnect with it in order to rekindle some warm and fuzzy feelings that were unique to said time period/event. Star Wars goes way beyond that. It's a constant like professional sports, ice cream, or sunsets.

Now you can make the claim that the most successful SW films seem to be the most derivative of ANH just like every X-Men movie always shows Magneto lifting things while Wolverine gets beat up. But Magneto lifting a building isn't this awesome nostalgic event it's just what he does every damn movie.

I'm also not trying to use nostalgia as a bad word,

I think you are (more or less.) Nostalgia implies that the new films are simply pointing to the OT and don't have merit on their own. And it's never really brought up by people who enjoy the new movies, only those who thought they were mediocre, were disappointed, or are bitter that people like them more than the PT.

Do I think X-Wings and Y-Wings are cool? Sure. Have I thought they were cool since childhood? Sure. But did I watch the battle of Scarif and go "This is great because I'm thinking about Luke attacking the Death Star in 1977!" Hell no. The only thing in my mind was "holy **** that Hammerhead Corvette just took out two Star Destroyers!"

 

[Wor-Gar]

that's just the sound a-dev makes when he thinks about any sport.

I know the sound a-dev makes when he takes a man's life.

 

[karamazov80]

The films do have new elements that make them enjoyable, of course, but the heart of these films is still firmly rooted in nostalgia. And I think that is a strategic decision these guys are making. The reasons other franchises you mention have not always succeeded could have multiple explanations: 1) the property isn't popular enough at a given time and place that appealing to nostalgia matters very much (see: the JEM movie, or Car 54, Where Are You ); 2) the new media fails to connect on an effective nostalgic level (see: GI Joe); or 3) the new media just isn't very good (see: GI Joe). The Star Wars films now succeed at all of these levels, so, the movies succeed.

But I will agree with you that Star Wars has transcended a lot of other things by becoming something we pass on to younger generations, and in that sense the franchise has developed a kind of life of its own. However, I don't know that 30 years from now we'll still see things firing on all cylinders as they are now, because I think that early childhood connection is not being made at nearly the same extent for the current generation as it did for many of us.

As for making money, adjusting for ticket inflation, the original is still number 1 with a bullet, Force Awakens, however, is #2, followed by the Phantom Menace. . .Rogue One is #7.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=starwars.htm

The fact that the reboots of the franchise achieve numbers 2 and 3 in the poll, one of which was critically panned, is enough in itself to suggest to me that these things aren't just succeeding on their own merits, Hunger Games-style.

By the way, my daughter has multiple Star Wars t-shirts (with Ray or Leia on each, of course), and I was planning to re-watch the original film with her this weekend if it rains, so I'm doing my part for the cause. I do think good Star Wars movies are a good thing, and hope they keep at it, even if, as I said before, I don't think any of these are going to be doing anything really important for cinema, or breaking any real new creative ground. And as a fan of great, innovative, and envelope-pushing storytelling, that's where I would like to see things go. I would say the same for Marvel films (with the exception, of course, of the revolutionary and life-changing X-Men films).

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Sorry, I forgot you guys use the wrong name for that sport.

 

[Khev]

The reasons other franchises you mention have not always succeeded could have multiple explanations:

And the common denominator pretty much always includes "because they were bad movies." Nostalgia can be a good marketing tool, "oh yeah, I remember such and such" but that alone won't make a movie a success nor will it ever be the primary reason for a film's success.

I think you're confusing "formulaic" with "nostalgic." And yes TFA doesn't hide the fact that it sticks pretty closely to the ANH formula. But it was all for the purpose of NOT camping out in the past and instead passing the torch to new icons. And it succeeded. Read pretty much any discussion on the film and you'll see that highlights tend to be Rey, Kylo, and BB-8 with points taken off for "being an ANH remake." Yes the formula allowed for a familiar platform with which to introduce their new characters but I haven't seen any evidence that suggests that TFA's success was *because* of the formula. Because as we saw with TPM you can have a movie that sticks to the formula of "Force sensitive kid on a desert planet/scene where a girl is rescued/fighters attacking a battle station at the end while guys fight with lightsabers" but it isn't going to resonate if people don't like the new elements and characters or if it's a poorly constructed film (editing/dialogue/acting/visuals, etc.)

 

[Centurion]

Sorry, I forgot you guys use the wrong name for that sport.

LOL!

I love the NFL. Always have since childhood. But I always thought that it was funny that we called it football seeing as how their feet hardly touch the ball.

 

[jye4ever]

Hmmmm...after a thorough analysis on this current nostalgia discussion I have come to the conclusion that...

Khev 1
Kara 0

 

[DiFabio]

I'm team Kara, get off my boards Jye.

 

[NASEDO]

Movie should of been called Star Wars: The Fart Awakens - cause it stunk!!!

 

[jye4ever]

I'm team Kara, get off my boards Jye.

Kara is definately one of the most intelligent people that hangs out in the movie section no doubt about that, just below me actually, but Khev is right, nostalgia crutch doesn't matter if the actual movie isn't good and if the plot and character arcs don't simultaneously tread new ground while it's busy busting out the nostalgia.

Khev wrote a great post last year that highlighted all the new ground TFA broke while it was copying ANH.

I'm just too exhausted right now to bring it all up again.

yay team Khev.

 

[DiFabio]

Khev paid you off didn't he?

If you agree with Kara, I will give you 100 good boy points (or buy you an Enterbay Robocop).

What say you.

 

[jye4ever]

Like any good homosapien I can easily be bought.

 

[Khev]

Kara is definately one of the most intelligent people that hangs out in the movie section no doubt about that, just below me actually, but Khev is right, nostalgia crutch doesn't matter if the actual movie isn't good and if the plot and character arcs don't simultaneously tread new ground while it's busy busting out the nostalgia.

Yeah. "Getting the band back together" can just as easily be a disaster that embarrasses all parties involved as it can be a raving success. Mark Hamill knew this and almost refused to return. He didn't want to come back just to be a joke or to be in the SW equivalent of Terminator Genisys. Because George Lucas himself proved that capturing that lighting in a bottle over and over is hard. But kudos to Abrams and Edwards for succeeding to do just that.

Seriously, think of how it all could have backfired. They could have really ruined any of the main three heroes if any of them were in "prequel mode." Or imagine Vader showing up in RO and acting like an idiot. The gamble of bringing back icons only works if you nail it and luckily instead of getting more ROTJ/ROTS Vader we got another massive dose of ESB Vader. Hell yeah. Now retire him permanently before they screw him up again.

Khev wrote a great post last year that highlighted all the new ground TFA broke while it was copying ANH.

My post is now hanging in the Annals of the Jedi Order (also framed in DiFabio's office so I'm sure he'll rescan it if you ask him nicely.)

 

[DiFabio]

Don't speak to soon my friend. There is still plenty of time left to ruin Luke . . .

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Don't speak to soon my friend. There is still plenty of time left to ruin Luke . . .

The damage is already done. He went into hiding after his boys were killed by a Padawan and his crew of flunkies. Miss perfect will surpass him in every way by the end of the film, and if she doesn't and Luke finally does something...well...too late, because he should have done that from the beginning instead of hiding like his two Jedi masters. I'm sure they'll find some BS/"from a certain point of view" excuse that will satisfy the diehard fans.

 

[a-dev]

''They already have Difabio...you were right...you were right about them. Tell your sister....you were riiightt...''

 

[Khev]

Six planets plus Han Solo died while Luke was away. He better have a damn good reason. Like "Galen Erso secretly planting a critical flaw in the Death Star" good.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It is not Luke's task.

It is Mary Sue's.

 

[jye4ever]

I'm going to cry when Rey kills Luke.