Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

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Holy ****, Welcome to joke overexplanation...

I'm not going to get into the election, though I'd like to.

Legitimate or not, it was mostly meant in a humorous way. Hence my pointing out the one line where he says he believes the accounts are bots (not human).

It was just my way of saying, as a joke, that the people that hate the movie are inhuman.





Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

No problem, relax, I was just joking with that first line too, as a catch-all for all such behavior, that so many folks are gullible to believe these things lol.

The rest was just explaining the study in question, as it’s popping up a lot of places as Rian is sharing it himself. I don’t want to get into the election either, it’s just that the author of said study references it many times as his baseline for many assumptions he’s made; it’s a large part of the ‘study.’

Move along, I suppose :lol
 
The sad thing is that your link showed that RJ himself just retweeted those "findings." The dude really needs to just get the hell off twitter and just be happy that there are those like yourself and myself who enjoyed TLJ enough to defend it without him sticking his nose into the debate and taking sides. Just be cool and let the chips fall where they may like Abrams, Edwards, and Howard (and Lucas for that matter.)
 
This thread lives!! :yess:

On the subject of Russian trolls/bots, there's an interesting connection to something shown on the making-of documentary (the one on the TLJ Blu-ray bonus disc). Early on in the filming, Rian Johnson is sitting at a table talking to someone about how he got a rush of coordinated tweets, all from Russian accounts, begging him not to kill the Hux character. He then takes his phone and starts reading one of the tweets.

I think the study that's been getting a lot of attention over the last 24 hours makes too many unverified assumptions to be definitive in its conclusions, but it brought to mind that scene in the documentary which always seemed peculiar to me. There's no reason for Johnson to be making up things on set about mass coordinated Russian tweets in the early stages of filming TLJ (more than a year before the movie even hit theaters). Bizarre stuff.
 
^That was actually true and was reported on long before the Blu Ray came out. There is tons of fan artwork of Hux from Russians, as well as the ‘other’ kind of art shipping him and Kylo together :lol

Go figure

And agreed on the sentiments regarding RJ - just be glad a lot of people do like it and move on.
 
There were only about 10 accounts he could truly identify as bots out of thousands, using something called a botometer. Then he tried finding similarities to the way those accounts spoke, and labelled them as having a high probability being of bots as well, but counting them in the bot total anyway.
Damn you, bots! Even 10 could leave a scorched earth in their wake.

 
Are you saying there is no evidence showing the Russians interfered in the 2016 election?

Yeah, I did a double-take there. Related to this article though, I appreciate the explanation as to how the author(s) came up with the results. Having read quite a few peer-reviewed articles, I understand how this methodology was justified though the conclusive labels given to these groups of people seems rather reckless.
 
I'm gonna build a wall between the OT and the PT and Lucas is gonna pay for it. :lecture

I built that wall for myself a long time ago, but Disney/LFL keeps trying to sneak the PT across the border anyway. :mad:
 
So it's official? Half of us here are bots. :rotfl

Maybe Khev... yes I think he's a bot. Just because. :rotfl
 
I'm going to make this post too long for anybody to read all the way through. It's a selfish one because it isn't intended to stir discussion or debate. This is simply a personal appreciation post, and it's an expression of my gratitude for a film that is unquestionably (and unfortunately) the most divisive Star Wars movie ever - but one whose virtues (and fans) often get overlooked, denied, or simply overwhelmed by the opposing negativity and hate. I regret what TLJ did to split the SW fan community, but I love what it did for me in terms of storytelling and functional purpose. It was a Star Wars film that came the closest to being what I've wanted a SW movie to be since I saw ROTJ as a 6-year-old kid in the summer of 1983. I know it was the opposite experience for many, but I hope (and believe) that someday that will change for a few fans with the passing of time and the hindsight of a concluded sequel trilogy.

Star Wars was a deeply important movie franchise for me growing up. My parents immigrated here to the United States from Europe not long before I was born. English wasn't my first language, and I started kindergarten at the age of 4 without knowing more than a handful of words of it. Midway through kindergarten, I had learned English properly enough to blend in well - but I struggled to feel as "American" as I wanted to be. Then I was introduced to Star Wars (after the buzz/reaction to ESB coming out in theaters). I was absolutely blown away, and I loved everything about it: the characters, the sights, the sounds, and especially the action figures. As a huge bonus, it gave me my first real cultural point of connectivity and shared experience with everyone else. Star Wars is largely what made me finally feel like an American. It changed my life, and not just in some clichéd way. Nothing (outside of sports) meant more to me growing up, in terms of both entertainment and connecting to this culture that I loved so much.

After getting to watch the entire original trilogy, I obviously wanted more. Novels and comics weren't nearly enough. I needed something on the big screen. I needed more stories about the Skywalkers, the Empire, the Rebellion, the build-up, and the aftermath. It took 16 years to finally get a fourth SW movie to be released. This was going to be epic!

I was 22, and exactly one year removed from having graduated college and started my career. I wasn't a kid anymore, and my hopes and expectations for what another Star Wars film would be like had evolved and expanded. This new film was going to take everything great about the universally-relatable broader concepts of the OT, flesh out the story more, and do so with much better filmmaking technology!! It was going to be the movie that I grew up hoping for: one reflective of a more sophisticated audience that was ready to be challenged both intellectually and viscerally. Well, The Phantom Menace turned out to be . . . the exact opposite. It wasn't made in a way that would appeal to the evolved sensibilities of the fans of the OT who had now grown up; it was made to create a new generation of fans by being tailored to the sensibilities of children. Star Wars became something I grew out of, instead of being something that actually grew with me.

I understand the motive for making the prequel trilogy the way Lucas did, but it was incredibly disappointing to know that the only chance to tell the story of Darth Vader's origin had been done that way. I had hoped to see an intelligent and gripping portrayal of the events and circumstances that old Ben Kenobi had told Luke Skywalker about: the Jedi and great pilot - Anakin Skywalker - who had been seduced by the Dark Side and become Darth Vader. It was a darker story than the OT, so it was one suitable to a more mature storytelling that these now-adult Star Wars fans were finally ready (and very eager) to receive. It could've been Star Wars evolved. It wasn't. Instead, it was mired in silliness, over-dependence on CGI, cringe-inducing dialogue, a hackneyed love story, and poor acting. It was utterly bizarre to me. And it didn't sit well with my circle of Star-Wars-fan friends either, who felt just as letdown as I was. We thought we'd seen the last cinematic Star Wars film, and it left a horrible taste in our mouths.

Fast forward another 10 years after ROTS, and a new trilogy was arriving by way of Disney. On the one hand, I was sad that it wasn't Lucas who was going to finish the 9-part tale that he'd started; but on the other hand, I was overjoyed that he wouldn't get to end it in the same storytelling style of the PT. I wanted someone who was going to take Star Wars forward, in both presentation and story. Along came J.J. Abrams and The Force Awakens. It was new, it was fun, and it had a lot (a whole lot . . . as in "too much") of OT inspiration behind it. It wasn't great, but it felt like it was great because it wasn't stupidly silly in a way that only kids could enjoy (like the PT). Overall it was pretty cool, and it was at least satisfying enough. A breath of fresh air. But it still wasn't what I'd hoped Star Wars would've evolved into with the last chance to use Ford, Fisher, and Hamill. They didn't even share any screen time together (not even one second), and never would again.

Then came Rogue One. A beautifully-made film that was everything I wanted, but not with the characters or story that I cared about. That's probably why it bored me a bit despite being a technically spot-on and impressive cinematic presentation. If only the Rogue One brain-trust had been given the reigns of the ST! I would have gotten my mature, evolved, more cerebral (yet still fun), and epic conclusion to the Skywalker Saga. Oh well. At least for me, Episode 8 came along and finally gave me a lot of what I'd been looking for (in spite of some shortcomings and easily-avoidable problems).

TLJ didn't get trapped into delivering fan service. It wasn't made to appease the sensibilities and fantasies of fanboys' collective head canon. It was one man's story that took the setup he inherited, and moved it forward with the themes and some of the characters he grew up loving and admiring. He chose not to simply present them as they'd always been, but rather allowed these characters and themes to evolve and head toward a conclusion.

Luke Skywalker was given a chance to go from staring at twin suns with hope and longing, to staring at twin suns with sober reflection and hard-earned peace of mind. He'd grown up. He had gone from being the heir of both an Empire and the nearly-extinct Jedi legacy, to the destroyer of the Empire, and then to the inspiration of renewed hope among a new generation of Jedi. TLJ gave me a more decent and sensible explanation than I thought possible for what TFA established as Luke having deserted everyone for years. Luke had suffered a lot, he'd learned from the past, was trying to make things right, but had taken things a little too far. His master returned to set him straight, rekindle his hope, and remind him how Obi-Wan had shown the path to help and guide someone in a way that was "more powerful than you can possibly imagine." And now Luke is exactly that, and always will be!

After 34 years of waiting, I finally got a follow-up cinematic Star Wars experience that realized there was always more to this saga than "pew-pew" lasers, swooshing lightsabers, and supermen who could use magic to take down armies. I got a film that rightfully established that Luke had grown from novice, to Knight, to legendary Master. Leia had grown from passionate rebel who inherited leadership, to battle-worn mentor who was ready to pass the torch by way of poignant lessons (taught both by word and by deed). And a new group of heroes was learning to capitalize on the role they inherited. Gone from SW was the PT over-dependence on hollow CGI, hollow characterizations, unconvincing portrayals, and brutally-forced dialogue. Gone was TFA's over-reliance on familiar tropes and obsession with "cool" presentation. TLJ brought me more of what I wanted from a SW sequel (prequels included) than any film since the OT. It was far from perfect (still could've been damn close if not for a few misguided choices), but it was the more grown-up Star Wars that I'd long hoped for.

I know many disagree with my point of view. That's fine. I know that many hated TLJ. That's fine. I know that this post will likely be followed with TLJ ridicule, or "didn't read, LOL" memes/gifs, or nothing at all. That's all fine too. Because I got a SW movie as an adult that made me feel the way I'd been hoping to since I was a kid. It actually wasn't the story I wanted or imagined, but it was told the way I wanted. So I'm thankful to everyone involved in making TLJ for prioritizing story vision over appeasing fans' wishlist (my own included). Even if everyone else hated it, this extremely long post proves there's at least one person who deeply appreciates TLJ. The end.
 
Great post ajp4mgs! *You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ajp4mgs again.*

That was truly wonderful to read how important SW was for you growing up. I feel and felt the same way about the prequels. I looked forward to TPM, but was utterly disappointed in how they were executed. My friends and I actually never really spoke about them. I think we all knew how terrible and disappointing they were and didn’t want to confront it or relive our heartbreak.

And I wholeheartedly agree about TLJ, although I feel TFA was just as good, but perhaps for different reasons. I admire your courage to share your positive thoughts about TLJ, especially on this board—and I suppose anywhere online, really!

This board is one of only 2 boards that I actually participate in, and its’s like 80% participation on this board alone. But it’s become so toxic because of the backlash that I end up avoiding most threads because inevitably they end up with either negative remarks about TLJ, or a full on hate-fest. I peek in every once in a while to see if someone has posted some actual news, but most of the time someone comes in just to poop all over TLJ. I don’t even know why I clicked this thread either. I was fully expecting to read more negative comments, but I thought maybe there was something new to read. I’m very glad I did click on the thread and read your great post! So thanks!
 
"Toxic."

There's that word again.

People don't like what I like so it's "toxic."

I didn't like TLJ and you did. I have to stay out of this thread cause the "toxic positivity" about a terrible movie really triggers me, and I can't stand other people having a different opinion than mine.
 
Great post ajp4mgs! *You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ajp4mgs again.*

That was truly wonderful to read how important SW was for you growing up. I feel and felt the same way about the prequels. I looked forward to TPM, but was utterly disappointed in how they were executed. My friends and I actually never really spoke about them. I think we all knew how terrible and disappointing they were and didn’t want to confront it or relive our heartbreak.

And I wholeheartedly agree about TLJ, although I feel TFA was just as good, but perhaps for different reasons. I admire your courage to share your positive thoughts about TLJ, especially on this board—and I suppose anywhere online, really!

This board is one of only 2 boards that I actually participate in, and its’s like 80% participation on this board alone. But it’s become so toxic because of the backlash that I end up avoiding most threads because inevitably they end up with either negative remarks about TLJ, or a full on hate-fest. I peek in every once in a while to see if someone has posted some actual news, but most of the time someone comes in just to poop all over TLJ. I don’t even know why I clicked this thread either. I was fully expecting to read more negative comments, but I thought maybe there was something new to read. I’m very glad I did click on the thread and read your great post! So thanks!

I really didn't expect anyone to actually read my ridiculously-long post, but since you did, I'm glad that you enjoyed it. And I greatly appreciate your positive feedback about it. Thank you.

I understand your hesitancy about reading these ST threads because the hate has a way of being frustrating (and often getting personal), but I don't have a problem with the differences of opinion. I know that I frustrate PT fans too when I share my opinion of those prequel movies, so I see it much the same way when I hear/read TLJ criticism. Like you, I don't participate in other online discussions about this stuff. This board is it for me because it combines the movie side with the collectibles side. I like reading the thoughts of this specific community, even when I disagree completely.

There's no easy way to criticize something that you strongly object to without making people feel like you're ridiculing them for liking what you think was stupid garbage. That's just the way it goes; we often have to deal with opposing points of view that come across strongly enough to be irritating because those views pertain to subjects that we care a lot about. I'm okay with it because I think echo chambers are boring and unproductive.

Difference of opinion and civil debate are good. But I definitely understand your point about being frustrated when civility is absent because people just want to rant about something that pisses them off.
 
Can’t we just agree that there are dummies on both sides, and point at them and laugh while we discuss serious issues like how often Gamoreans wash their fuzzy shorts? Do they use conditioner? :confused:

Online fandom in general is toxic but there are pockets of inspired lunacy to enjoy.
 
Has anyone realized how utterly hysterical Kylo's order to fire on Luke Skywalker becomes when you imagine it from the point of view of the FO? Literally none of them would have even known who Luke was when he first walked outside so to them it was no different than if they lined up their AT-AT's and the one Resistance fighter played by Gareth Edwards stepped out onto the field.

Imagine poor Gareth getting utterly obliterated for several minutes while Kylo screamed "more, MORE!!!!" The rest of the FO must have thought he was utterly insane, lol. Hux's "do you think you got him" line literally becomes the funniest in the entire Saga with that in mind, lol.
 
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