Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[JAWS]

That's not what I was referring to though. Any movie can have twists and turns but even if they are well made films choices can still be made with the narrative (regardless of whether it was expected or unexpected) that fans can deem "wrong." And that was how I felt about Avengers and you feel about Ragnarok (and TLJ.) It doesn't make any of them badly done movies (along with IM3 or TKDR) but they can be divisive when childhood heroes are involved.

My biggest issue with Ragnarok was that I cant get a decent Hulk movie since the First Avengers

I actually like the movie far more now as I love the character of Thor in that film and Avengers 3... When I watched the original Avengers (you are so wrong about that one) I forgot what a dude Thor use to be

I could go with the flow of TLJ if it had a good tale to tell. I guess that is where it failed to meet my expectations

 

[ajp4mgs]

That's an interesting question actually. Who here still believes there is good in Kylo? I do (well I believe that is LFL's ultimate intention for the character).

Kylo will almost assuredly be redeemed. Disney will make sure of it, no matter how much it might be better otherwise. I honestly believe it would have been Leia to do it in Ep9.

And I don't think Luke will look bad for having believed that Kylo couldn't be redeemed. Luke could have seen Kylo's turn, and maybe even some of his heinous future actions, but he couldn't have foreseen the role he himself could play as a Force ghost. Or the role Anakin ghost might play. Or maybe even still Leia somehow. JJ and LFL just have to write it carefully.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Kylo will almost assuredly be redeemed. Disney will make sure of it, no matter how much it might be better otherwise. I honestly believe it would have been Leia to do it in Ep9.

And I don't think Luke will look bad for having believed that Kylo couldn't be redeemed. Luke could have seen Kylo's turn, and maybe even some of his heinous future actions, but he couldn't have foreseen the role he himself could play as a Force ghost. Or the role Anakin ghost might play. Or maybe even still Leia somehow. JJ and LFL just have to write it carefully.

That would be the biggest travesty of all time. Luke couldnt save him nor even tried, but Rey oh the real jedi could, the is the real hope. They need to rename a New hope to the New Joke, cause the jokes on you brotha.

 

[Khev]

I could go with the flow of TLJ if it had a good tale to tell. I guess that is where it failed to meet my expectations

And... what if Rey is the one to do it Will you still love this ST??

No, I don't believe I would. Ever since TFA I've said that if it were up to me Rey should pull a "Ginny" from Friday the 13th Part II and put on Vader's mangled mask to **** with Kylo's head long enough to run him through. If he gets redeemed after smugly murdering Han Solo and after Luke said he was a lost cause then I'll probably permanently join the "the Saga ended with ROTJ" crowd.

 

[a-dev]

If he gets redeemed after smugly murdering Han Solo and after Luke said he was a lost cause then I'll probably permanently join the "the Saga ended with ROTJ" crowd.

 

[ajp4mgs]

No, I don't believe I would. Ever since TFA I've said that if it were up to me Rey should pull a "Ginny" from Friday the 13th Part II and put on Vader's mangled mask to **** with Kylo's head long enough to run him through. If he gets redeemed after smugly murdering Han Solo and after Luke said he was a lost cause then I'll probably permanently join the "the Saga ended with ROTJ" crowd.

Well, I guess I'll have to enjoy the next 14 months while you're still on the pro-ST train. But come December 20, 2019 . . . you will have turned. And I'll be there when you crawl away from your fiery doom to scream "I HATE YOU!!!!!"

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Well, I guess I'll have to enjoy the next 14 months while you're still on the pro-ST train. But come December 20, 2019 . . . you will have turned. And I'll be there when you crawl away from your fiery doom to scream "I HATE YOU!!!!!"

and he will say "i loved you like a brother, but you were supposed to bring balance to the force. Not leave it in Darkness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! escuse me JEDI CAN LOVE NOW WUT>>> JEDI CAN FLY & BREATH IN SPACE now WUT, jedi can force skype, jedi can project images but then risk dying on a rock wwwwwuuuuttt.. i love the PT and ST WUT MOMENTS. Anger leads to fear, fear leads to hate,hate leads to suffering.. love leads to attachment, attachment leads to fear of loss, jealousy and anger..There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force. When all else fails just hyperspeed into it, it will solve all your problems, just dont tell anyone your plan, cause its such a gud idea that nobody every thought of it before dont want anyone else stealing your ideas even after 4000 year of the technology being in existence. I da only one that could think of it, only me and my purple hair

 

[Bravomite]

Kylo will almost assuredly be redeemed. Disney will make sure of it, no matter how much it might be better otherwise. I honestly believe it would have been Leia to do it in Ep9.

And I don't think Luke will look bad for having believed that Kylo couldn't be redeemed. Luke could have seen Kylo's turn, and maybe even some of his heinous future actions, but he couldn't have foreseen the role he himself could play as a Force ghost. Or the role Anakin ghost might play. Or maybe even still Leia somehow. JJ and LFL just have to write it carefully.

There was this chap in PT and OT who used to be like a brother to this other chap called Anakin but in the end he gave up on him. He believed that there was no good left in this Anakin chap but he was ultimately proven wrong by this other chap called Luke. It seems strange to me therefore that this Luke chap would end up becoming just like this other guy in the ST.

It does not seem to marry up with our understanding of these two characters, Luke and Obi-wan. Old Ben believed in black and white, good and evil, light and dark ... absolutes if you will. It was very easy to understand why he would consider Anakin lost once he went towards the dark. Luke appeared to grow beyond these strict dogmatic view points by the end of the OT and again, I thought, this was reinforced in TLJ as well. So it doesn't sit well with me that he would just write off Kylo as a lost cause given that we as the audience believe that he will be redeemed in 9 just like his grandfather in 6. I would love to be proven wrong but I don't know if the mouse has the stones to do it.

 

[ajp4mgs]

There was this chap in PT and OT who used to be like a brother to this other chap called Anakin but in the end he gave up on him. He believed that there was no good left in this Anakin chap but he was ultimately proven wrong by this other chap called Luke. It seems strange to me therefore that this Luke chap would end up becoming just like this other guy in the ST.

It does not seem to marry up with our understanding of these two characters, Luke and Obi-wan. Old Ben believed in black and white, good and evil, light and dark ... absolutes if you will. It was very easy to understand why he would consider Anakin lost once he went towards the dark. Luke appeared to grow beyond these strict dogmatic view points by the end of the OT and again, I thought, this was reinforced in TLJ as well. So it doesn't sit well with me that he would just write off Kylo as a lost cause given that we as the audience believe that he will be redeemed in 9 just like his grandfather in 6. I would love to be proven wrong but I don't know if the mouse has the stones to do it.

The Mouse has no stones. They have long been replaced with coin slots to pour money into by not disturbing things like classic "redemption of evil" themes.

Luke became a lot more like Kenobi, and partly because Kenobi's failure with Anakin was a personal one. He gave up on Anakin partly due to his own sense of personal failure to properly guide "the chosen one." Luke didn't have that personal guilt/grief when it came to Anakin/Vader. Luke wasn't Anakin's mentor and guide. Luke hadn't failed him. But he was Kylo's mentor. He saw himself as failing Kylo. See where I'm going with this?

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

The Mouse has no stones. They have long been replaced with coin slots to pour money into by not disturbing things like classic "redemption of evil" themes.

Luke became a lot more like Kenobi, and partly because Kenobi's failure with Anakin was a personal one. He gave up on Anakin partly due to his own sense of personal failure to properly guide "the chosen one." Luke didn't have that personal guilt/grief when it came to Anakin/Vader. Luke wasn't Anakin's mentor and guide. Luke hadn't failed him. But he was Kylo's mentor. He saw himself as failing Kylo. See where I'm going with this?

Again you missed the point he was making luke and ben were very different people who had vastly differently beliefs about good and evil. Luke always believed that people could be turned back, yoda and ben did not. Once they traveled down the darkpath forever will it dominate your destiny. Its a natual reaction from ben based on that belief but that was not lukes belief so it does not apply to him. Both yoda and ben believed the only way luke could win was by killing vader and the emperor. Thats why when luke said i cant kill my father, ben said then the empire has already won. He didnt even consider vader being turned as an option

 

[ajp4mgs]

Again you missed the point he was making luke and ben were very different people who had vastly differently beliefs about good and evil. Luke always believed that people could be turned back, yoda and ben did not. Once they traveled down the darkpath forever will it dominate your destiny. Its a natual reaction from ben based on that belief but that was not lukes belief so it does not apply to him. Both yoda and ben believed the only way luke could win was by killing vader and the emperor. Thats why when luke said i cant kill my father, ben said then the empire has already won. He didnt even consider vader being turned as an option

Yeah, there I go missing the point again. Yeah, the point about Kenobi believing that there's no malleability when it comes to things like destiny? Let me ask you something: who said "only a Sith deals in absolutes?" Oh, that's right: Kenobi.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Yeah, there I go missing the point again. Yeah, the point about Kenobi believing that there's no malleability when it comes to things like destiny? Let me ask you something: who said "only a Sith deals in absolutes?" Oh, that's right: Kenobi.

You were just implying that since obi wan gave up on anakin and went into hiding after his failure in training the chosen one as an explanation as why luke did it with ben. They wouldnt have the same reaction because their beliefs were fundementally different. Luke was nothing like kenobi

 

[ajp4mgs]

You were just implying that since obi wan gave up on anakin and went into hiding after his failure in training the chosen one as an explanation as why luke did it with ben. They wouldnt have the same reaction because their beliefs were fundementally different. Luke was nothing like kenobi

My point was that even OT Luke might have been different in dealing with Anakin/Vader if he had been the one personally responsible for failing Anakin. But he wasn't. Kenobi had to deal with that, and why he said, "I've failed you Anakin." It's tougher to believe you can turn someone around when you yourself are responsible for their downfall. It's called a conscience. And good people carry stronger burdens of conscience. And great people even get so weighed down by things like guilt that they do things that are out of character.

Then you said that I didn't understand that Kenobi had a different belief system, and that if I did understand it I'd know how different he was from Luke. So I used Kenobi's own words to give you some background on his belief system not being quite as cemented in absolutes as was being suggested.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

But obi wan wasnt responsible for anakins turn it was palpatine and his love for padme. With ben, you could argue that jake skywalker caused his turn by sneaking into his room while he was sleeping and igniting his saber as if he was going to kill him. First, luke skywalker would never do that, and if he did, **** up that bad he would do anything in his power to try and fix it. Not just hide away and say **** it, ben did t even do that he tried to make good on his percieved mistake with anakin by watching over his son luke

 

[xipotec]

telepathy was already established as a force power with ben communing with luke after he died in his head. do you not see the difference between that and superman leia breathing and flying in space. I don't see why you have a question about how luke was able to talk with Leia, what?? he used the same power ben did, its an extension of mind trick, it all makes sense if you use your brain. But flying space leia makes no sense no matter how you try to spin it.. Basically your questions weren't questions, and no me saying the empire controlled all technology is not fan fic, why the **** you think the rebels had the rag tag ships and empire had all the good ****. In the real world the people in power control all the military and weaponary, the rebels fight with black market garbage ****. its just how it works.

Not to mention the scene everyone forgets .....Vader did telepathy with Luke at the end of ESB from his Star Destroyer....

“Luke, come with me....it is you DES———tiny.....”

“Ben....why didn’t you tell me?”


It gets old re explaining things people accepted with eagerness in OT and rejected now in ST....

Han, Leia and Chewie seemed to have no problems going out in space on that asteroid....

Oh wait, after a dozen years a silly theory about atmospheres on asteroids and slugs that can survive in the vacuum of space with nothing to eat made that all ok.....but a human surviving in a vacuum for 60 seconds is way too weird and implausible...even though science says its possible in reality.....

And thats without the benefit of the magical force....

I could go on but people don’t want explanations they just want to dislike what they dislike....even if its similar to what they like.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Not to mention the scene everyone forgets .....Vader did telepathy with Luke at the end of ESB from his Star Destroyer....

“Luke, come with me....it is you DES———tiny.....”

“Ben....why didn’t you tell me?”


It gets old re explaining things people accepted with eagerness in OT and rejected now in ST....

Han, Leia and Chewie seemed to have no problems going out in space on that asteroid....

Oh wait, after a dozen years a silly theory about atmospheres on asteroids and slugs that can survive in the vacuum of space with nothing to eat made that all ok.....but a human surviving in a vacuum for 60 seconds is way too weird and implausible...even though science says its possible in reality.....

And thats without the benefit of the magical force....

I could go on but people don’t want explanations they just want to dislike what they dislike....even if its similar to what they like.



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

I remember that scene lol, but you may forget that they were wearing masks when they stepped outside. Here this may help

No sorry, nobody could breathe or fly in space without gear or ships in the ot. I wonder why Leia didn’t have that power back then.. oh wait I know why its a power that couldnt be taught by a Jedi or sith only RJ could teach it because he made it up lol

 

[a-dev]

Yeah, there I go missing the point again. Yeah, the point about Kenobi believing that there's no malleability when it comes to things like destiny? Let me ask you something: who said "only a Sith deals in absolutes?" Oh, that's right: Kenobi.

That's a quote from a PT movie, that doesn't count

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

That's a quote from a PT movie, that doesn't count

View attachment 430447

Like his Sith Lords are our speciality quote, when he himself had never even faced a Sith Lord.. lol he bested maul who was a Grunt, dooku kicked his *** 2 times and palpatine ended up wiping out all the Jedi under his watch forcing him to run away in hiding lol. Then he let his former Padawan kill him with ease. Granted he beat Anakin the first time but only because of anakins hubris and cause he had the “high ground”. Speciality my *** lol

 

[xipotec]

I remember that scene lol, but you may forget that they were wearing masks when they stepped outside. Here this may help View attachment 430446

No sorry, nobody could breathe or fly in space without gear or ships in the ot. I wonder why Leia didn’t have that power back then.. oh wait I know why its a power that couldnt be taught by a Jedi or sith only RJ could teach it because he made it up lol

I am sure I dont need to tell you in space its -473 also......

So a gas mask is not protection....

How about that slug, got an explanation for that? Did it have gear?

Also, the whole point of these films
Is stated in the first films title “The Force Awakens”.
They are trying to show the Force waking up in people, and perhaps that means new powers.

Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Hell ya let’s go full on crazy with next one. I want to see full on Superman jedi rey in 9, she won’t need no stinking saber, she can shoot lightsaber beams from her eyes and use the force to shield her from all attacks including sabers. As long as they go full on man of steel dragon ball z for the end fight I’m game for it, I want to see some crazy *** **** though.. her and kylo flying around shooting beams at each other, using force powers to rip planets apart and hurl,them at each other, **** man I want it to end with a god damn rey force finger snap.. she just wipes out the whole order with a snap of her finger.. the end.. would pay to see that **** for real, just go bonkers with the powers