Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

He probably did a force skype with rey and saw that
Leia was still alive and well i doubt he truely believed she was dead anyway he would have felt it... the force is more powerful in this new republic they can sense each other across the galaxy so im sure thats why he didnt grieve after witnessing that

 

[loki2371]

Know why people don't understand what they saw? Because this movie was a mess. Terrible writing and terrible execution. Good acting for some, bad for others. Some great action scenes, some bad. Great CGI, and bad CGI.

Fans take an understanding one way, while the NON fans (Tired of "HATERS") understand it a different way. So many plot holes and redirection from TFA & even to all we knew from the OT & PT trilogies. Sorry, Johnson just made a complete mess.

When I watch a movie with my kids, especially one I've seen, I stop them when they have questions about something they didn't understand. I always tell them, a good movie answers it's own questions and by the end there should be no confusion. Then we discuss it afterwards if they still didn't understand some things.

With TLJ, everyone was confused and had questions on both sides (fans and non fans).... Rian Johnson's dream movie, divide the audience. A++ for him...

 

[Khev]

My point is... Skywalker(OG)Kush and I see Luke in the same way. He will always be a beacon of hope to me and his character embodies resilience, love and belief in the good in people.

Of course, I'm not saying that if you think that "your" Luke wouldn't have behaved the way that he did in TLJ and that's why you don't like it then that's totally fair. I will point out however that the film did ultimately portray him as a "beacon of hope" even though yes he was obviously less than that in the first and second acts of the film. I'm fine with him struggling but I can understand if people want him to be above such struggles at all times. I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise because otherwise people could just say "um Khev didn't you just say you were pissed at Avengers for making Cap a wuss who couldn't take out one random SHIELD agent," lol.

Luke is a childhood hero of mine but for me he's never been *that* larger than life to the point that he's more of a Greek god type hero like the guys in the MCU and DCEU. So I'm fine with him getting down on himself, withdrawing from the fight, etc.

To your comment of "always believing in the good of people," eh, he isn't Gandhi, he's still a scrapper who will go off script and try to blow away a crimelord who won't bargain with him, lol. He also won't try to "save" Palpatine, Snoke, and others who are pure evil (which is exactly what I believe TLJ presented us with Kylo Ren.) Even with that though he did try to still calmly explain to his nephew that killing people in anger isn't the way to go and only blew him off with "see ya 'round kid" when Kylo ignored his advice yet *again* and instead tried to murder him.

But as always your mileage may very.

 

[Bravomite]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to loki2371 again. Good post.

I saw the movie with my wife on my second and final viewing (it was her first). As a non-fan she was only going in having seen TFA a few times (she likes it enough and said it "it felt like a marvel movie" not a nerdy sci-fi). She's never seen the PT and only saw the OT once when we first started dating to appease me (she thinks these are nerdy dated sci-fi films ... blasphemy I know). So I thought it might be interesting to have her views on TLJ especially as she is part of LFL's targetted demographic of new fan, maybe. So with TFA continuity fresh in her mind and a loose understanding of the OT (but not bogged down by being of the Jedi religion like the rest of us in this thread) we pressed play on Netflix.

And it took two sittings because she got bored. She thought the humour had become too dumbed down now and she had many many questions some of which could only be answered by "the plot demands it, let go of your logic".

At the end she turned to me and said I understand your pain you big nerd. But she doesn't really, how can she because then she went on about her life and spared not a second thought for this movie. Meanwhile I lurk in this thread 10 months later and watch angry YouTube videos daily and think nasty thoughts towards Rian Johnson (it is demanded by the gods so it is) - However, she is right about one thing, I am a big nerd oh gawd!

 

[ajp4mgs]

Know why people don't understand what they saw? Because this movie was a mess. Terrible writing and terrible execution. Good acting for some, bad for others. Some great action scenes, some bad. Great CGI, and bad CGI.

Fans take an understanding one way, while the NON fans (Tired of "HATERS") understand it a different way. So many plot holes and redirection from TFA & even to all we knew from the OT & PT trilogies. Sorry, Johnson just made a complete mess.

When I watch a movie with my kids, especially one I've seen, I stop them when they have questions about something they didn't understand. I always tell them, a good movie answers it's own questions and by the end there should be no confusion. Then we discuss it afterwards if they still didn't understand some things.

With TLJ, everyone was confused and had questions on both sides (fans and non fans).... Rian Johnson's dream movie, divide the audience. A++ for him...

I don't know about you, but I had a s***ton of unanswered questions after ESB.

• How did Luke communicate with Leia while he was hanging from Cloud City?
• Why did Kenobi show up after Luke was about to pass out, but not tell him: "Hey, Luke, you should head away from here because there's a big angry Wampa hanging around" a bit earlier?
• Why did Kenobi tell Luke to go see Yoda instead of teaching him that stuff himself?
• How did Vader have time to learn about the carbon freezing chamber at Bespin, and getting everything ready to use it on a human before Han arrived?
• How long was Luke on Dagobah?
• How could Luke see his friends in the future, in danger, in a city in the clouds and know exactly where that would be to go there?
• Why didn't Kenobi warn Luke about Vader's trap?

My point is that ESB is the greatest SW movie, but it was the middle chapter in a trilogy. Having questions after watching a movie doesn't make it a bad movie. It makes it a movie. And in the case of ESB: it was a f'ing AWESOME movie that I LOVE, no matter how many questions I had (and still would have if I cared to need them answered).

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

I don't know about you, but I had a s***ton of unanswered questions after ESB.

• How did Luke communicate with Leia while he was hanging from Cloud City?
• Why did Kenobi show up after Luke was about to pass out, but not tell him: "Hey, Luke, you should head away from here because there's a big angry Wampa hanging around" a bit earlier?
• Why did Kenobi tell Luke to go see Yoda instead of teaching him that stuff himself?
• How did Vader have time to learn about the carbon freezing chamber at Bespin, and getting everything ready to use it on a human before Han arrived?
• How long was Luke on Dagobah?
• How could Luke see his friends in the future, in danger, in a city in the clouds and know exactly where that would be to go there?
• Why didn't Kenobi warn Luke about Vader's trap?

My point is that ESB is the greatest SW movie, but it was the middle chapter in a trilogy. Having questions after watching a movie doesn't make it a bad movie. It makes it a movie. And in the case of ESB: it was a f'ing AWESOME movie that I LOVE, no matter how many questions I had (and still would have if I cared to need them answered).

question 1: They had already established telepathy as a force power with Ben Talking with Luke in the wampa scene you referenced in question number 2.. What was so confusing about luke using the same power ben did?? What should be confusing is leia floating like mary popins in space when she had never used the force before for anything other than telepathy. More TLJ lightswitch forcepower bs

Question 2" A better question would be why didn't Ben use lightning like force ghost yoda did in TLJ and kill the wampa for him... Force ghost do more then commune with the living which is new for TLJ only.

Question 3 Empire was everywhere, no technology could be made without them knowing about it or approving it, which is why the rebels had to use piles of junk like the MF.

Question 4: not a long time, maybe a couple of weeks

Question 5: Kenobi wasn't there, he was dead; all powerful force ghosts weren't introduced until TLJ. Before TLJ they were limited to Telepathy, ben also said he couldn't interfere when luke confronted vader.

 

[loki2371]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to loki2371 again. Good post.

I saw the movie with my wife on my second and final viewing (it was her first). As a non-fan she was only going in having seen TFA a few times (she likes it enough and said it "it felt like a marvel movie" not a nerdy sci-fi). She's never seen the PT and only saw the OT once when we first started dating to appease me (she thinks these are nerdy dated sci-fi films ... blasphemy I know). So I thought it might be interesting to have her views on TLJ especially as she is part of LFL's targetted demographic of new fan, maybe. So with TFA continuity fresh in her mind and a loose understanding of the OT (but not bogged down by being of the Jedi religion like the rest of us in this thread) we pressed play on Netflix.

And it took two sittings because she got bored. She thought the humour had become too dumbed down now and she had many many questions some of which could only be answered by "the plot demands it, let go of your logic".

At the end she turned to me and said I understand your pain you big nerd. But she doesn't really, how can she because then she went on about her life and spared not a second thought for this movie. Meanwhile I lurk in this thread 10 months later and watch angry YouTube videos daily and think nasty thoughts towards Rian Johnson (it is demanded by the gods so it is) - However, she is right about one thing, I am a big nerd oh gawd!

Thanks for the compliment. My wife too was a fan, but not like me. I think she finally started to understand the depth of it when my son became as obsessed with Star Wars as I was. And not by force from me either.

 

[loki2371]

I don't know about you, but I had a s***ton of unanswered questions after ESB.

• How did Luke communicate with Leia while he was hanging from Cloud City?
• Why did Kenobi show up after Luke was about to pass out, but not tell him: "Hey, Luke, you should head away from here because there's a big angry Wampa hanging around" a bit earlier?
• Why did Kenobi tell Luke to go see Yoda instead of teaching him that stuff himself?
• How did Vader have time to learn about the carbon freezing chamber at Bespin, and getting everything ready to use it on a human before Han arrived?
• How long was Luke on Dagobah?
• How could Luke see his friends in the future, in danger, in a city in the clouds and know exactly where that would be to go there?
• Why didn't Kenobi warn Luke about Vader's trap?

My point is that ESB is the greatest SW movie, but it was the middle chapter in a trilogy. Having questions after watching a movie doesn't make it a bad movie. It makes it a movie. And in the case of ESB: it was a f'ing AWESOME movie that I LOVE, no matter how many questions I had (and still would have if I cared to need them answered).

I assume you don't want actual answers to your questions I had none of those that I can recall at the age of 8.

Luke was on a Hero's journey and had to learn for himself through trial and error, failures and success. Rey had no journey. She mind melded and knew all.

 

[JAWS]

Yeah, that's why I still contend that TLJ is the IM3 or TDKR of Star Wars. All three were beautifully filmed and acted with some stellar action sequences but also containing some highly controversial narrative decisions that turned off a very vocal portion (regardless of whether it's the minority or majority) of the fanbase.

Ummmm. TLJ did not have stellar action... It had a stellar moment (lightspeed suicide) and that's about it

Critics loved how all three were made but fans (myself included) take it one step further and review based on how they think they "should" be made. And therein lies the divide IMO

Nah.. I love having my expectations diverted.. I would say it was the one thing that drew me to the film immediately after watching it... But then thinking about the movie in the way home.... Just too many issue to ignore.

I am most angry about this film because it killed my passion for SW.. Not even the PT did that. I did not see Solo opening weekend.. First time that happened since the very first movie..

No need to go over this again.. As I have made my feeling clear in a fair way.. BUT I was just looking at this film in my Blu ray collection and started to think about it and I none of it is a positive memory.. Just too much crap with some good. Rian Johnson made the film he wanted to make.. Unfortunately that film for myself and many others was not very good.

It may be a bit of "Its not what I wanted or expected" but that does not make the criticism of the film any less valid IMO. I know that is not what Khev was saying I am just throwing that out there.

To me the SW fans did not make this series or this film Toxic.. Ryan Johnson did.

 

[ajp4mgs]

question 1: They had already established telepathy in the scene with Ben Talking to luke like he did in the wampa scene in question number 2

What!? No, seriously . . . I don't know what that means. Two living beings had used telepathy before, who we didn't know were related to one another?

Question 3 Empire was everywhere, no technology could be made without them knowing about it or approving it, which is why the rebels had to use piles of junk like the MF.

Question 4: not a long time, maybe a couple of weeks

Glad you know this stuff for sure, and not just employing "fan fiction" here. As for me, I missed those explanations the first million times I watched the movie.

Question 5: Kenobi wasn't there, he was dead; all powerful force ghosts weren't introduced until TLJ. Before TLJ they were limited to Telepathy, ben also said he couldn't interfere when luke confronted vader.

Was Kenobi more dead than he was when he appeared on Hoth, or on Dagobah? He couldn't talk to Luke the same way? Advise him the same way?

I assume you don't want actual answers to your questions I had none of those that I can recall at the age of 8.

Luke was on a Hero's journey and had to learn for himself through trial and error, failures and success. Rey had no journey. She mind melded and knew all.

No. Just to be clear: the questions don't bother me. The movie was great, even if there were things I didn't understand - or questions that were left unanswered. That was my point.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

telepathy was already established as a force power with ben communing with luke after he died in his head. do you not see the difference between that and superman leia breathing and flying in space. I don't see why you have a question about how luke was able to talk with Leia, what?? he used the same power ben did, its an extension of mind trick, it all makes sense if you use your brain. But flying space leia makes no sense no matter how you try to spin it.. Basically your questions weren't questions, and no me saying the empire controlled all technology is not fan fic, why the **** you think the rebels had the rag tag ships and empire had all the good ****. In the real world the people in power control all the military and weaponary, the rebels fight with black market garbage ****. its just how it works.

 

[Khev]

Nah.. I love having my expectations diverted..

That's not what I was referring to though. Any movie can have twists and turns but even if they are well made films choices can still be made with the narrative (regardless of whether it was expected or unexpected) that fans can deem "wrong." And that was how I felt about Avengers and you feel about Ragnarok (and TLJ.) It doesn't make any of them badly done movies (along with IM3 or TKDR) but they can be divisive when childhood heroes are involved.

 

[ajp4mgs]

telepathy was already established as a force power with ben communing with luke after he died in his head. do you not see the difference between that and superman leia breathing and flying in space. I don't see why you have a question about how luke was able to talk with Leia, what?? he used the same power ben did, its an extension of mind trick, it all makes sense if you use your brain. But flying space leia makes no sense

Dude, ghost Kenobi talking to Luke is differ . . . what the hell am I doing!? I don't care about any of those questions I asked. That was my whole point!!

 

[Bravomite]

I liked how in Star Wars and the hoth scene in TESB we as the audience aren't sure whether Ben is actually communicating with Luke or if it's all in Luke's head. It's only when we see Yoda interact directly with a force ghost as well that we know that it must be "real". Looking back on the OT I have a lot of respect for how the filmmakers slowly expanded our belief and understanding in the force and its abilities. So much so that when Luke reached out to Leia through the force at the end of TESB I never even questioned it once... at that point I was ready to believe.

The new powers in TLJ do not feel like a natural progression and instead cause me to question why the heck no one else did those things before.

 

[a-dev]

To your comment of "always believing in the good of people," eh, he isn't Gandhi, he's still a scrapper who will go off script and try to blow away a crimelord who won't bargain with him, lol. He also won't try to "save" Palpatine, Snoke, and others who are pure evil (which is exactly what I believe TLJ presented us with Kylo Ren.)

What if he (kylo) turns back to the light in IX?

 

[Khev]

What if he (kylo) turns back to the light in IX?

Then that will definitely undermine Luke's position in TLJ (unless they pull off the all but impossible task of making Kylo's redemption "all part of Luke's plan," something that I just don't think they'd be capable of doing.)

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Then that will definitely undermine Luke's position in TLJ (unless they pull off the all but impossible task of making Kylo's redemption "all part of Luke's plan," something that I just don't think they'd be capable of doing.)

And... what if Rey is the one to do it Will you still love this ST??

 

[Bravomite]

What if he (kylo) turns back to the light in IX?

Then that will definitely undermine Luke's position in TLJ (unless they pull off the all but impossible task of making Kylo's redemption "all part of Luke's plan," something that I just don't think they'd be capable of doing.)

That's an interesting question actually. Who here still believes there is good in Kylo? I do (well I believe that is LFL's ultimate intention for the character).

 

[a-dev]

Then that will definitely undermine Luke's position in TLJ.

T'would seem so. I haven't quite been persuaded by the rationale put forth even as it stands. The consequences of his self-exile have been too massive.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

That's an interesting question actually. Who here still believes there is good in Kylo? I do

I do or he would have wasted his mother without hesitation, killing han did nothing, he is a try hard, its why he asked his grandfarther for help in the first film. He is like vader in that sense, he cannot shake the light. He will turn, the climax of this movie cannot be Rey vs Ren again, do we really have to see her beat him a third time then ride him around like a pony. there has to be a twist, you know subvert the expectations. Who knows, maybe it will be the resurrection of snoke or even palpatine, they must know Kylo will never be taken seriously, he is not a menacing threat like vader, they way theyve written and portrayed him.... they wasted the character...