You're trying to equate the skill and effort Luke used to project himself on Crait to what Snoke was doing with Rey and Kylo, but it's not nearly the same thing.
What Luke was doing was making himself appear to everyone and everything. Even C-3PO could see him with robotic optics; so the projection wasn't just seen by working through the mind.
What Snoke did wasn't even an actual projection. He was bridging minds that were connected to the Force. No one else could see them, and neither (Kylo and Rey) could see anything around the other Force-user either. Kylo couldn't see Luke that first time, and Luke couldn't see him. Then the last time Snoke linked them, Luke was actually able to tell what was going on because he had reconnected with the Force by then.
Luke's projection = fully visible to everyone and everything. Snoke's "projection" = limited to Force-users, and by "tricking" their minds - not by projecting optics in the "real" world. Totally different skills employed; and reasonable to assume far different effort levels required as a result. But, yes, I'd like to know more about Snoke via novels, comics, or whatever - he's my favorite new character in the ST.
Where did TLJ ever show that Luke was trying to kill himself!? Going to Ahch-To to die meant going there, and staying there, until death arrived naturally. What suggested he was there to commit suicide!? Was it showing that Luke learned to fish for food to survive? Or having learned to procure gross milk in order to survive? Or living with the Caretakers? By showing that he took relics and personal items to keep around him where he lived?
I understand that you guys hate this movie. That's perfectly fine; and I get it. But shouldn't the complaints be about what actually happened in the movie? There are plenty of criticisms I would agree with and never try to defend (Canto Bight, Leia Poppins, lightsaber toss, Rose logic, etc.). I just can't understand why we need to debate issues and plots that are not only absent from the film, but are actually contradictions to what played out on screen.
A couple of days ago in this thread, Khev and I were being asked to explain why Luke left a map . . . when he never did. Now it's why Luke was looking to commit suicide . . . when he never did. By this time next week, we'll be asked why Luke was sacrificing chickens dressed as Elvis. How 'bout just sticking with what actually happens in the movies instead?
With all due respect but most of the **** you come up with to defend the horrible RJ retcon and destruction of Luke is complete conjecture; The biggest problem is you speak as if your Rian Johnson himself and know exactly what he was thinking when he was trying to salvage the so called mess that JJ left him. Anytime somebody has a legitimate problem with TLJ, you jump in with this long winded diatribe adding behind the scenes analysis of what characters were thinking and why it makes sense that Luke did what he in the RJ version. There were so many plot threads that JJ setup in TFA that RJ just completely dropped, outright ignored and completely changed (subverting those expectations), I don’t see how you can argue the consistency between the two stories especially regarding Luke (Rey as well) make sense. Speculation and conjecture is fine, it becomes a problem though when you use it to retort other people’s arguments that are based on what was shown in the movie (TFA not TLJ). AND that are not based on some behind the scene brain scans of RJ’s mind that only you have access too as to why he made these changes, let alone why you believe they are better. You are right about one thing Luke did not leave a map in RJ”s retcon, in his Retcon that Luke, he didn’t want anyone to find him he never would have told anyone where he went nor where he was going. You said it yourself, he wanted the JEDI to end, him being the last Jedi to die and the order to die with him after his failure with the “Evil unredeemable Ben Solo” Fine… that works for me. His luke was just a bit dumb for hiding in a place people would logically look for him.
Now your picking on people for saying he went there to commit suicide, ok I see you’re not too good with sarcasm or even semantics. Luke went there to die, yes dude, he didn’t go there to hang himself but he did go there to die alone (some people consider that a form of suicide- giving up all of one’s previous life). The RJ Luke wanted the order to end, that Luke would have left no map, also that Luke would have not gone to the last Jedi temple, or any place like that where everyone in the galaxy could easily guess where he may have went. There would have been no detailed Map!!! That Luke, RJ Luke, would have gone into the unknown regions with Ezra Bridger, to disappear off the grid in a place where neither the empire nor resistance could ever find him.
This was not the case for Luke in Force Awakens, TFA Luke obviously wanted to be found at some point. First, If he didn’t, Han would have had no clue that he had gone searching for an ancient Jedi temple, not only would Luke not have told Han that, he would have had no reason to go there since RJ Luke wanted the Jedi to end- There would be no map at all (just like there was no map to old ben in the empires possession) because JJ Luke did not want the Jedi to end 2) Luke’s Saber called to Rey, suggesting he was not cutoff from the force, the rational conclusion is that Luke himself was calling to her, otherwise why Luke’s saber and not some random one. 3) Leia was also looking for Luke during force awakens, TLJ Luke would have told leia his intentions to disappear after her failure with Ben and not to come looking for him, he then cutoff his connection to the force which would signal to Leia Luke is not an option. They would have had no clue where he would have went, there would have been no assumptions, he definitely wouldn’t have gone to an ancient Jedi temple, (you know a place where people could guess he may have gone). You cannot tell me RJ Luke was so dumb that he learned nothing from his experiences with old ben. Obi wan went to tatoonie to hide, the empire never found him there; he could have easily went back there to be off radar. Notice how neither Yoda nor old Ben wen to some old Jedi Temple, a place that could be found based on process of elimination. A good example of this, is that nobody assumed where Yoda went, why??? Because he never told anyone where he went, his last words to Bail Organa was” in hiding I must go, failed I have” not I’m going to a Jedi temple (just in case you want to find me). Hell Luke could have went back to Dagobah and died in Yoda’s hut if he really wanted to disappear.
I cannot begin to fathom why you must argue this, there was obvious retcon between why Luke was hiding away in TFA and TLJ, it’s not about map thing or taking the word suicide out of context it’s the fact that Rian didn’t even attempt to smooth in his changes he just **** it and it created major potholes between the 2 movies. I understand why this is happening; you got people who like what JJ setup and those that hate it. Those that hate it refuse to even acknowledge what JJ was trying to do and how rians sequel was a direct subversion of that to the point that it left a lot of people confused. The fact is, TFA and TLJ seem like 2 completely disconnected movies; I don’t see the merit in trying to tear down people who acknowledge TFA’s obvious plot point setups and TLJ’s obvious retcons of them. You are using RJ retcons to disqualify what was shown in TFA in an attempt to support your biased assertion that Rian Saved us from the mess of TFA left, which imo and others have stated is completely false or not true.
This whole argument started because of your love affair with RJ, and your assertion that JJ backed RJ into a corner with Luke being on the Island (and did nothing while all those planets and people died) and that he did everything right with all his ****ed up retcons. Well it’s my opinion as well as a few others that JJ did not back Rian into a corner, in JJ”s version Luke had to have told somebody where he was planning on going otherwise there would have been no map. I was simply doing what you’re doing with your conjecture, when I said “he left a map” cause in JJ’s version he wanted to be found, all evidence points to that. That was my conjecture, did he drop the map off himself, no, but he told someone enough information that they knew where he would be for quite a few years (not just a short period of time). My point always was that Luke, in JJ’s force awakens, wanted to be found, I believe that why his saber called to Rey, you cannot discount that as nothing. The Luke in TFA seemed like he was hiding out much like Ben/Yoda did before him waiting on someone to find him so they could leap into action together. You have major issues with this TFA Luke for whatever reason, and that is fine, but that’s what Force Awakens implied. All your arguments are post retcon, so you explanation for why there is a map itself is weak, the TLJ Luke would have just lied about where he was going, because he didn’t want to be found he would leave no clues. This is the retcon that you seem to have to argue from the TLJ standpoint rather than just seeing it from TFA standpoint. It’s a major plot problem anyway you try to spin it or justify it- the reason it’s a problems is because RJ didn’t give a **** what JJ wanted or what he was setting up he did his own thing.
