Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[xipotec]

Laugh it off fur balls!!!!

 

[Bo Shrek]

I was going back and fourth of TFA, RO and TLJ on my phone last night just watching snippets of each before going to bed. I appeared to be more engaged with RO which I believe (like Prometheus) will be viewed as a masterpiece 10-20 years from now. Such a great movie however not in its first or second viewing. Needs to be watched several times to be appreciates and loved. I had no idea what was going on when I first watched in theatres, but at home with subtitles on I could understand names/planets etc. TFA came in second (enjoy this movie), but then everything comes to a crawl with TLJ. I loved Rey in TFA she was moving at a fast pace giving 110% of her energy, TLJ completely slows her character down to literally waiting.

What opinions we might have on the SW movies (OT, PT, NT (new trilogy) and stand alone, I think we can all agree TLJ is the only SW movie that is a little “against the grain”!!!

 

[RIDDICK]

I didn't really hate TFA because, while bein' a very messy remake of the original, it presented some interesting things that could've been used to make a very good sequel... Unfortunately Rian Jonzon or whoever was in charge just said "WHO CARES" and shot TLJ.

 

[ironwez20]

Pretty much. They set up interesting plot points for the sequel which didn’t come to light. Just a bad movie imo

 

[Darth Snoopy]

 

[TaliBane]

Ugh... Jar Jar... not him! But he's better than the Disney travesty - I mean trilogy.

Who kills the big bad villain in the middle of the trilogy?

Who systematically destroys beloved characters from the original before killing them off?

Who thinks it makes women look good by making all the guys stupid schmucks?

Who dresses like an old-republic diva when leading a revolution?

Who reduces Princess Leia - my absolute favorite character - into Mary Poppins?

That's one spoonful of sugar I can do without!

The movie was as tragic as Carrie's death, and that's pretty bad. No integrity, no respect for what comes before it, just amounts to a lot of money-grabbing fluff pandering to the lowest common denominator. Disney's magical one-size-fits-all formula for movies may make them maximum profit for minimum work, but I can't bring myself to even call it good, let alone art.

While some of that is undoubtedly true, and TLJ is empirically a turd of a movie in many places, sadly Carrie's facial/mouth movement would have been an issue no matter what. It really seemed like maybe she had a stroke a few years earlier, or maybe the drug abuse had had some effect on finer muscle movement over the years, or maybe some plastic surgery that didn't work out. What made it particularly difficult was that she was so vivacious in the OT.

The standout to me from TLJ was Hamill - who emerged as a much better actor than he's given credit for - with real screen presence - and who also looked and sounded great. TBH, I thought the look and vibe of old Luke came across as better than old Han - maybe we're just too used to HF's acting ticks and schtick and poisoned by nostalgic junk like KOTCS.

If ageism (the only "ism" nobody gives a **** about) hadn't forced Luke/Hamill to be bearded-old-guy-who-must-die, who knows what major part Luke might have been allowed to play in the ST.

 

[Otomofan]

I appeared to be more engaged with RO which I believe (like Prometheus) will be viewed as a masterpiece 10-20 years from now.

 

[Magpie 7]

Whether you rate him or not I do have sympathy for Trevorrow, unlike Johnson or Abrams, he may have saved the trilogy in it's final act had fate and Johnson's ego not interfered. From what he was saying before Kennedy had him shut up he had a grand plan for the final chapter. Leia was going to wield a lightsaber (at ****ing last!!!) and show that her early lessons made her more powerful than even Rey. Luke, still living, would've took a step back but still be there for the lead characters.


What went wrong......Johnson decided to kill Luke off even after Trevorrow protested to Kennedy, Kennedy told Trevorrow "it's ok you still have your Leia story"....When Fisher died Trevorrow begged for them to reshoot it so Luke could live and somehow salvage what he worked on for over a year. Johnson and Kennedy said no, Kennedy partly due to a fear that they might not have a fit and well Hamill when summer 2018 came around.


So Trevorrow quit.....Lucasfilm and Disney say it was a parting of the ways, a difference of opinion on where the film would go. Go what way now??? They boxed Trevorrow into a plot he didn't want, lets see what Abrams does but I suspect it'll turn into The Force Awakens 2.

 

[a-dev]

Whether you rate him or not I do have sympathy for Trevorrow, unlike Johnson or Abrams, he may have saved the trilogy in it's final act had fate and Johnson's ego not interfered. From what he was saying before Kennedy had him shut up he had a grand plan for the final chapter. Leia was going to wield a lightsaber (at ****ing last!!!) and show that her early lessons made her more powerful than even Rey.

The response to that would have been worse than Leia Poppins.

 

[Sachiel]

Imagine CGI Leia hopping around and screaming like prequel Yoda.

 

[morphosis]

Whether you rate him or not I do have sympathy for Trevorrow, unlike Johnson or Abrams, he may have saved the trilogy in it's final act had fate and Johnson's ego not interfered. From what he was saying before Kennedy had him shut up he had a grand plan for the final chapter. Leia was going to wield a lightsaber (at ****ing last!!!) and show that her early lessons made her more powerful than even Rey. Luke, still living, would've took a step back but still be there for the lead characters.


What went wrong......Johnson decided to kill Luke off even after Trevorrow protested to Kennedy, Kennedy told Trevorrow "it's ok you still have your Leia story"....When Fisher died Trevorrow begged for them to reshoot it so Luke could live and somehow salvage what he worked on for over a year. Johnson and Kennedy said no, Kennedy partly due to a fear that they might not have a fit and well Hamill when summer 2018 came around.


So Trevorrow quit.....Lucasfilm and Disney say it was a parting of the ways, a difference of opinion on where the film would go. Go what way now??? They boxed Trevorrow into a plot he didn't want, lets see what Abrams does but I suspect it'll turn into The Force Awakens 2.

Do you have any sources for this? I never read anything with that kind of detail about Trevorrow's idea with Leia wielding a lightsaber and all that other than she was going to be the focal point in 9. Han was 7, Luke was 8, Leia was 9. But thats changed obviously.

Trevorrow's script for 9 was finished in 2016 ready to go once TLJ was done with all the publicity and they would start filming in 2018. CT knew Luke's fate in 2016 because his 9 script had to be based off TLJ. Then Carries passed away end of 2016. TLJ was filmed with the actors from Feb 2016 through July 2016. Then they spent more than a year on Post Production. Carrie died in December 2016 many months after filming for TLJ was complete. CT knew Luke was going to die, his 9 script had to have been based on that in mind back in 2016. If they were going to re-shoot TLJ, they never would be able to release TLJ in Dec 2017. It was way too late to re-shoot TLJ after Carrie passed. So any rumor of that is bogus.

The logical thing is that CT didn't want to change his story for 9 or he had different ideas they all didn't agree with once Carrie passed. So Kathleen, JJ and everyone needed to rewrite the entire script because CT's movie would have been very much about Leia. And they probably didn't agree on what to do after Carrie passed and they felt more comfortable JJ finishing the trilogy since it all started with TFA and his ideas. I think CT would have made his film if Carrie didn't pass. It had nothing to do with Luke dying. His 9 script was done with that in mind. He knew which characters he had to work with.

I know MarkH made comments about liking CT's direction, but that had to have been really early on, like right when CT was hired. CT was all set to direct 9, it had nothing to so with Mark or Luke dying for him being fired (or some think quit). It had to do with Carrie passing and they didn't agree what to do.

 

[jal76]

Whether you rate him or not I do have sympathy for Trevorrow, unlike Johnson or Abrams, he may have saved the trilogy in it's final act had fate and Johnson's ego not interfered. From what he was saying before Kennedy had him shut up he had a grand plan for the final chapter. Leia was going to wield a lightsaber (at ****ing last!!!) and show that her early lessons made her more powerful than even Rey. Luke, still living, would've took a step back but still be there for the lead characters.


What went wrong......Johnson decided to kill Luke off even after Trevorrow protested to Kennedy, Kennedy told Trevorrow "it's ok you still have your Leia story"....When Fisher died Trevorrow begged for them to reshoot it so Luke could live and somehow salvage what he worked on for over a year. Johnson and Kennedy said no, Kennedy partly due to a fear that they might not have a fit and well Hamill when summer 2018 came around.


So Trevorrow quit.....Lucasfilm and Disney say it was a parting of the ways, a difference of opinion on where the film would go. Go what way now??? They boxed Trevorrow into a plot he didn't want, lets see what Abrams does but I suspect it'll turn into The Force Awakens 2.

And then Darth Vader himself flew down to Lucasfilm headquarters on the back of a giant space dragon, drew his light saber, pointed it at poor Trevorrow (who is an even greater hero than Luke Skywalker himself) and said I forbid you to make your movie and unless you agree to quit over creative differences I will be back to strike you down with this light saber...isn't that how the story ends...?

 

[Magpie 7]

Do you have any sources for this? I never read anything with that kind of detail about Trevorrow's idea with Leia wielding a lightsaber and all that other than she was going to be the focal point in 9. Han was 7, Luke was 8, Leia was 9. But thats changed obviously.

Trevorrow's script for 9 was finished in 2016 ready to go once TLJ was done with all the publicity and they would start filming in 2018. CT knew Luke's fate in 2016 because his 9 script had to be based off TLJ. Then Carries passed away end of 2016. TLJ was filmed with the actors from Feb 2016 through July 2016. Then they spent more than a year on Post Production. Carrie died in December 2016 many months after filming for TLJ was complete. CT knew Luke was going to die, his 9 script had to have been based on that in mind back in 2016. If they were going to re-shoot TLJ, they never would be able to release TLJ in Dec 2017. It was way too late to re-shoot TLJ after Carrie passed. So any rumor of that is bogus.

The logical thing is that CT didn't want to change his story for 9 or he had different ideas they all didn't agree with once Carrie passed. So Kathleen, JJ and everyone needed to rewrite the entire script because CT's movie would have been very much about Leia. And they probably didn't agree on what to do after Carrie passed and they felt more comfortable JJ finishing the trilogy since it all started with TFA and his ideas. I think CT would have made his film if Carrie didn't pass. It had nothing to do with Luke dying. His 9 script was done with that in mind. He knew which characters he had to work with.

I know MarkH made comments about liking CT's direction, but that had to have been really early on, like right when CT was hired. CT was all set to direct 9, it had nothing to so with Mark or Luke dying for him being fired (or some think quit). It had to do with Carrie passing and they didn't agree what to do.

For Trevorrow, 9 became impossible when Carrie died, not Luke being killed off, the problem was Trevorrow feeling he couldn't tell the story he wanted because he was denied these two characters. In his script he still had Luke being a spirit, it didn't make much difference because Luke was needed for a different role to the one in 8. Trevorrow wanted to base 9 on Leia facing Kylo, the build up has been there and it's obvious the way they skirt around it in 8, only having them connect through the Force. I'd love to know more about how Leia would use the lightsaber, the full story will come out someday, but all it said was "wield" and that could mean as little as blocking Kylo's lightsaber.

The way Trevorrow saw it was, after Carrie had died they should change the emphasis from Leia to Luke and have the uncle face the nephew. Cold that mean repeating 8 but for real this time, it could've been easily done by leaving Luke on the island alive and not doing a Ben Kenobi or something more elaborate. Trevorrow, like Hamill has gone very quiet on their views of 8 and 9 in the last few months as Lucasfilm tightened their grip on promoting anything that can reflect negatively on 8. Trevorrow quit, there was no sacking and in the end Lucasfilm was quite happy to free him from his contract and place 9 in the safe and secure hands of Abrams.

 

[morphosis]

For Trevorrow, 9 became impossible when Carrie died, not Luke being killed off, the problem was Trevorrow feeling he couldn't tell the story he wanted because he was denied these two characters. In his script he still had Luke being a spirit, it didn't make much difference because Luke was needed for a different role to the one in 8. Trevorrow wanted to base 9 on Leia facing Kylo, the build up has been there and it's obvious the way they skirt around it in 8, only having them connect through the Force. I'd love to know more about how Leia would use the lightsaber, the full story will come out someday, but all it said was "wield" and that could mean as little as blocking Kylo's lightsaber.

The way Trevorrow saw it was, after Carrie had died they should change the emphasis from Leia to Luke and have the uncle face the nephew. Cold that mean repeating 8 but for real this time, it could've been easily done by leaving Luke on the island alive and not doing a Ben Kenobi or something more elaborate. Trevorrow, like Hamill has gone very quiet on their views of 8 and 9 in the last few months as Lucasfilm tightened their grip on promoting anything that can reflect negatively on 8. Trevorrow quit, there was no sacking and in the end Lucasfilm was quite happy to free him from his contract and place 9 in the safe and secure hands of Abrams.

unless your CT himself, your reading into fan theories way too much.

after carrie died, TLJ was long into post production. they can’t change it especially everyone at LucasFilm is very happy with the way its gone. Plus schedules of actors would have to come into play. Post production would have to extend their schedule. They aren't just going to change their plans for the trilogy with Luke dying in act 2 with several years of planning it.

Much easier to just take Ep9 with a new direction since nothing had been filmed. No money lost other than scripts.

There is just no proof out there that CT wanted them to reshoot TLJ so Luke lives so they fired him for it. it’s all fan theories because they are mad luke died.

ps. i found your source and it’s 100% fan theory/speculation. it started from some guy who thinks he’s a journalist went on collider talking rumors.

https://scavengersholocron.com/category/home/did-colin-trevorrow-get-booted-because-of-rian-johnson/

I even got the video of this guy talking about it on Collider. Around the 4:30 mark.


If people think this guy has the insight into CT, TLJ, RJ, Ep9, JJ, SW and everything....then idk?

 

[xipotec]

Very interesting parallel in Clone Wars season 6

Yoda is learning how to become one with the force. Directed to a planet by the force ghost of Qui Gon, he visits beings connected to a planet where midichlorians come from.

He is told he must face trials to see if he is worthy to learn the power of life after death.

He is first charged with defeating his hubris...
Second with defeating his inner dark side.
And last with facing his greatest fear.

Then he must fulfill his destiny (training Skywalker) before he will be allowed to join with the force.

It seems as though this maybe just what Luke did on Achto.

He had to defeat his hubris....which was himself thinking he could train a new batch of Jedi by himself

The he had to face his inner dark side, namely his desire to kill Ben before he could turn into a Sith.

Finally , he had to confront his deepest fear. That he would fail to create the new Jedi and let his friends and the rebels down. Well knowing he could not win the fight as a one man army, he failed this test and hid away.

It is only after he meet Rey does he understand how to help without failing to hubris or giving into fear. (Force projection).

He then fulfills his destiny, much like Yoda did, although his lesson was to not get involved directly, but lead by inspiration. Only then can he become one with the force.

I am probably not articulating this well, as it’s still fermenting in my own mind.

I highly recommend watching these last few episodes of Clone Wars in Netflix, especially the Yoda one....

It’s definitely something that influences the choices made for Luke in TLJ.....

If nothing else it enhances the story of PT in a wonderful way.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RIDDICK]

Imagine CGI Leia hopping around and screaming like prequel Yoda.

There's no need to imagine that tho.

 

[TheJediQueen]

Your posts are a little absurd.

Meh.

It’s basically Riddick’s MO to be a ****, complain about people being , and pat himself on the back about how he’s not a ****.
Other than that he puts people on ignore so as to not see how often he’s pimp-smacked. Best to just carry on like there’s a mosquito.

*Fly swatter slap*. Pimp-smacked.

I think we can all agree TLJ is the only SW movie that is a little “against the grain”!!!

In the same way that one person relieving himself at the dinner table goes against the grain, perhaps.

TLJ is empirically a turd of a movie

FINALLY, the voice of reason. This section needed a little sanity.

The standout to me from TLJ was Hamill - who emerged as a much better actor than he's given credit for - with real screen presence - and who also looked and sounded great.

And you lost me.

Imagine CGI Leia hopping around and screaming like prequel Yoda.

Now someone will see it and DO it in the next one.

...everyone at LucasFilm is very happy with the way its gone.

I have a bad feeling about this.

 

[jal76]

Very interesting parallel in Clone Wars season 6

Yoda is learning how to become one with the force. Directed to a planet by the force ghost of Qui Gon, he visits beings connected to a planet where midichlorians come from.

He is told he must face trials to see if he is worthy to learn the power of life after death.

He is first charged with defeating his hubris...
Second with defeating his inner dark side.
And last with facing his greatest fear.

Then he must fulfill his destiny (training Skywalker) before he will be allowed to join with the force.

It seems as though this maybe just what Luke did on Achto.

He had to defeat his hubris....which was himself thinking he could train a new batch of Jedi by himself

The he had to face his inner dark side, namely his desire to kill Ben before he could turn into a Sith.

Finally , he had to confront his deepest fear. That he would fail to create the new Jedi and let his friends and the rebels down. Well knowing he could not win the fight as a one man army, he failed this test and hid away.

It is only after he meet Rey does he understand how to help without failing to hubris or giving into fear. (Force projection).

He then fulfills his destiny, much like Yoda did, although his lesson was to not get involved directly, but lead by inspiration. Only then can he become one with the force.

I am probably not articulating this well, as it’s still fermenting in my own mind.

I highly recommend watching these last few episodes of Clone Wars in Netflix, especially the Yoda one....

It’s definitely something that influences the choices made for Luke in TLJ.....

If nothing else it enhances the story of PT in a wonderful way.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great theory and great episodes of Clone Wars! ***************SPOILER**************One of the coolest things is that Darth Bane shows up in this arc and he is actually played by Mark Hamill...that is awesome!

 

[TaliBane]

And you lost me.

Not sure what you mean. Hamill was good, especially considering what he had to work with. He's never going to be De Niro, but he aged into a decent actor.

CF had the significant facial issues and HF made prickly sarcasm fresh as a younger man but with advanced age it feels off these days. So to me, MH emerged as the best of the three as older people.

 

[Magpie 7]

unless your CT himself, your reading into fan theories way too much.

after carrie died, TLJ was long into post production. they can’t change it especially everyone at LucasFilm is very happy with the way its gone. Plus schedules of actors would have to come into play. Post production would have to extend their schedule. They aren't just going to change their plans for the trilogy with Luke dying in act 2 with several years of planning it.

You're totally ignoring the fact that Johnson did reshoots/pick ups in March/April 2017, 3 months after Carrie died. And around that time Trevorrow quit....even if you don't want to believe me the coincidence is startling. Who knows exactly what he had in mind except Trevorrow but I guess he either wanted a shot to show Luke alive on the island or to just edit it and leave him sat on the rock, either way that wouldn't take long to do. In the end the only thing Johnson would add was the "see you around, kid" line.