Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Prime Clone]

As y'all are probably aware, the Knights almost became Snoke's guards. Probably for the best they weren't wasted like that.

 

[guyver1]

I mentioned it in the IX thread, but if anything I think TLJ set them up to be in IX way more than TFA did for TLJ. Also, it's kind of cool that JJ gets to be the one to use them if he wants to - seeing as they're his creation.

I still want to know about this that JJ created



God I hope it’s not Reylo

 

[jal76]

As y'all are probably aware, the Knights almost became Snoke's guards. Probably for the best they weren't wasted like that.

Rian Johnson said in an interview that he saw no way of using them without killing them off and that there was too much promise in the potential for these characters to simply kill them off a la the Praetorian Guards...very good call on his part.

 

[guyver1]

Rian Johnson said in an interview that he saw no way of using them without killing them off and that there was too much promise in the potential for these characters to simply kill them off a la the Praetorian Guards...very good call on his part.

God I’d hope not they were Snoke’s guards. You’d think if Luke trained them, they would be better than getting wiped out from a force user who had no training

Hell no..they need to make KOR new characters and do it right

 

[jal76]

God I’d hope not they were Snoke’s guards. You’d think if Luke trained them, they would be better than getting wiped out from a force user who had no training

Hell no..they need to make KOR new characters and do it right

Agreed...the concept of taking Luke's force sensitive students and using them as a dark side army is way too cool to squander! That's almost worthy of a whole series in and of itself!

 

[guyver1]

Agreed...the concept of taking Luke's force sensitive students and using them as a dark side army is way too cool to squander! That's almost worthy of a whole series in and of itself!

Love Rey but I’m appalled with TLJ that Luke didn’t train her , nor he refused too and Yoda treated it as a joke.

Jeez, Jedi need to be trained ..even Obi Wan was trained by Qui Gon

This new breed, including broomstick boy is a slap to the franchise IMO

 

[jal76]

Love Rey but I’m appalled with TLJ that Luke didn’t train her , nor he refused too and Yoda treated it as a joke.

Jeez, Jedi need to be trained ..even Obi Wan was trained by Qui Gon

This new breed, including broomstick boy is a slap to the franchise IMO

Yep...I wish there could have been something along the lines of Empire where we get the sense that she spent some quality time with Luke being ACTUALLY trained by him...I think everything else that happened with the character would have been perceived differently and in a more positive way...just a small montage even...

 

[guyver1]

Yep...I wish there could have been something along the lines of Empire where we get the sense that she spent some quality time with Luke being ACTUALLY trained by him...I think everything else that happened with the character would have been perceived differently and in a more positive way...just a small montage even...

It would’ve been fine with me as a Jedi fan if even that little concept. But Once they wrote that Luke refused to train her , it became a lost cause in my book

It’s almost saying anyone can be a Jedi now

 

[xipotec]

It would’ve been fine with me as a Jedi fan if even that little concept. But Once they wrote that Luke refused to train her , it became a lost cause in my book

It’s almost saying anyone can be a Jedi now

That’s exactly what they are saying and trying to show....

They are headed toward an idea that you don’t need to be trained to use the force, it’s a natural thing, and the Jedi trying to teach it and control who and how it was used was hubris. No different than the Sith in the end.

I like that idea...but if you rooted in the way things were , that only people who are trained can “use” the force, you will never accept that. Because someone said it was that was in OT a lot of fans assume that the ONLY way it could ever be.

But there was a time before the Jedi Order, where Force users were not trained formally.

Luke was trying to teach Rey that using the force was a natural thing. It didn’t need any controlled and guided training.

But if you cannot let go of that idea that a Jedi MUST be trained , your probably not going to like what comes from a Disney.

The force is a natural occurrence, the Jedi and Sith attempting to control it is what has led to the constant war and struggle for power between the light and dark.




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[jal76]

That’s exactly what they are saying and trying to show....

They are headed toward an idea that you don’t need to be trained to use the force, it’s a natural thing, and the Jedi trying to teach it and control who and how it was used was hubris. No different than the Sith in the end.

I like that idea...but if you rooted in the way things were , that only people who are trained can “use” the force, you will never accept that. Because someone said it was that was in OT a lot of fans assume that the ONLY way it could ever be.

But there was a time before the Jedi Order, where Force users were not trained formally.

Luke was trying to teach Rey that using the force was a natural thing. It didn’t need any controlled and guided training.

But if you cannot let go of that idea that a Jedi MUST be trained , your probably not going to like what comes from a Disney.

The force is a natural occurrence, the Jedi and Sith attempting to control it is what has led to the constant war and struggle for power between the light and dark.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think this theme was also visited in Rogue One with Chirrut Imwe. He is an example of someone who has a strong connection to the force but was not discovered by the Jedi and taught to wield a light saber but still has the ability to do some of the amazing things that he pulls off clearly being guided by the force.

 

[Captain Clown]

I still want to know about this that JJ created



God I hope it’s not Reylo

2017 is the year of nightmare vision sequences being retconned.

 

[Vault Boy]

That’s exactly what they are saying and trying to show....

They are headed toward an idea that you don’t need to be trained to use the force, it’s a natural thing, and the Jedi trying to teach it and control who and how it was used was hubris. No different than the Sith in the end.

I like that idea...but if you rooted in the way things were , that only people who are trained can “use” the force, you will never accept that. Because someone said it was that was in OT a lot of fans assume that the ONLY way it could ever be.

But there was a time before the Jedi Order, where Force users were not trained formally.

Luke was trying to teach Rey that using the force was a natural thing. It didn’t need any controlled and guided training.

But if you cannot let go of that idea that a Jedi MUST be trained , your probably not going to like what comes from a Disney.

The force is a natural occurrence, the Jedi and Sith attempting to control it is what has led to the constant war and struggle for power between the light and dark.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the novel Rey absorbs Snoke's training telepathically from Kylo Ren. Like how Neo downloaded Kung Fu knowledge in the Matrix. This was the writer's way of trying to fix the Mary Sue issue. It wasn't thought through very well because then what was the point of all the other Force Sensitives having to train at all, including Kylo Ren. Yes remember, he had to train to be able to wield the Force proficiently.

 

[YoNoSe]

I agree that the training “download” is weak sauce. Not because it undermines anything previous - new things happen. But because it feels like a cheat to compensate for Rey’s lack of significant heritage. But since it is book-only I don’t give it much weight.

It’s been said (by Simon Pegg most recently) that JJ had a rough 3 picture treatment which included a relevant heritage for Rey. I think Johnson’s cave vision was vague enough for JJ to course correct. After all, Luke’s Dagobah vision was not only foreshadowing but fear.

 

[YoNoSe]

Also, still catching up but so nice to see many moving past the finger pointing to actual movie discussion.

 

[Vault Boy]

Rey's parents being nobodies or somebodies really should make no difference. Luke and Anakin still needed to train.

 

[YoNoSe]

Rey's parents being nobody's or somebodies really should make no difference. Luke and Anakin still needed to train.

I don’t disagree about training , but Luke and Anakin were also prodigiously gifted even among force users so *IF* Rey has Skywalker blood - or is another force miracle baby, or some other anomoly of the force as a countermeasure to Ben Solo - I thonk that would be a more satisfactory nod to the Mary Sue camp than “I know kung fu” in a sub par book.

 

[YoNoSe]

#thonk droid

 

[jal76]

I don’t disagree about training , but Luke and Anakin were also prodigiously gifted even among force users so *IF* Rey has Skywalker blood - or is another force miracle baby, or some other anomoly of the force as a countermeasure to Ben Solo - I thonk that would be a more satisfactory nod to the Mary Sue camp than “I know kung fu” in a sub par book.

It's been well established now that Jedi were literally trained from the time that they were infants to the time that they basically reached Luke's age to achieve a level of proficiency that is clearly supposed to be less than Luke's...compared to a life time of training that every other Jedi got Luke may as well not have been trained when you consider the relative brevity of his time on Dagobah. One may feel that being trained by Yoda made the difference but it's also been established that Yoda had a hand in training all of the Jedi. Long story short I feel like the Star Wars mythology has already established through Luke himself that sheer force strength may trump training.

 

[YoNoSe]

It's been well established now that Jedi were literally trained from the time that they were infants to the time that they basically reached Luke's age to achieve a level of proficiency that is clearly supposed to be less than Luke's...compared to a life time of training that every other Jedi got Luke may as well not have been trained when you consider the relative brevity of his time on Dagobah. One may feel that being trained by Yoda made the difference but it's also been established that Yoda had a hand in training all of the Jedi. Long story short I feel like the Star Wars mythology has already established through Luke himself that sheer force strength may trump training.

Agree. And even Rey’s very brief and unconventional experience with Luke -coupled with the texts- are well planted seeds for the eventual confrontation against a dramatically unstable, fundamentally conflicted opponent.

 

[guyver1]

I agree that the training “download” is weak sauce. Not because it undermines anything previous - new things happen. But because it feels like a cheat to compensate for Rey’s lack of significant heritage. But since it is book-only I don’t give it much weight.

It’s been said (by Simon Pegg most recently) that JJ had a rough 3 picture treatment which included a relevant heritage for Rey. I think Johnson’s cave vision was vague enough for JJ to course correct. After all, Luke’s Dagobah vision was not only foreshadowing but fear.

I’ve studied that cave sequence over and over and it still puzzles me and at the same time makes me concern about what Kylo said her parents are nothing because when she said “ show me my parents “ the distance showed two silhouettes approaching her and then as they got closer they formed one image that looked like Kylo but when it stopped , it was her .

So was the darkside trying to trick Rey into thinking Rey had no parents? Or they really didn’t matter like Kylo said. And when Kylo made Rey admit herself that her parents were nothing reminds me when Vader said to Luke saying he was luke’s father and Luke said No, that’s not true..that’s impossible...Vader said search your feelings you know it be true . And obvious we know now that Vader was his father and deep down Luke knew, I guess it really doesn’t matter who Rey’s parents were because the force is not passed on .

Because you look at Anakin’s supposedly slave mom

The logic is getting too twisted

What does the novel say why Luke disappeared. Was he supposed to die.

It’s confusing because Yoda vanished through natural death, Obi Wan willed himself to vanish but it looked like Luke was in pain before he vanished, he was crying when he saw the two suns .