Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[xipotec]

Maybe it’s perspective....but it’s seemed to me the hater were more apt to insult anyone who liked the film.

Anyone who gave explanation for the stuff people didn’t like got chewed apart.

But that was just my observation......


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[Mad Old Lu]

I agree--from my perspective it seemed that some (most?) of the haters were and are saying "no real SW fan..." or "you're not a real fan if..." or "you are fooling yourself if..."

But I never saw anyone who liked the movie say anything remotely similar to that.

The worst thing is (and I've mentioned this before) that the haters inject their hate of the movie in any and every thread whether it's related to the movie or not. You certainly don't see people who like the movie just randomly say how great the movie is in any random thread!

And I also agree with Jal--my personal tolerance for listening to negative comments is less than my tolerance for listening to positive comments.

Edit: I kinda liked Alien Covenant too! Some of those deaths were so gruesome! And Kong was fun too! So I'm with you on that too, Khev!

 

[GeneralZodLives]

jye just did in the Predator thread. I think a lot of people here have selective memory when it comes to anyone that liked TLJ.

 

[Khev]

Edit: I kinda liked Alien Covenant too! Some of those deaths were so gruesome!

I have a feeling that a lot of people will have a new appreciation for ALIEN: Covenant after "The Predator" is released.

Man does that look like AVP:R Part Deux or what, lol.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

I have a feeling that a lot of people will have a new appreciation for ALIEN: Covenant after "The Predator" is released.

Man does that look like AVP:R Part Deux or what, lol.

Nothing can be as bad as those AVP movies. I like Shane Black (yes, even Iron Man 3!) so I'm open to what he does.

Actually, thinking about Iron Man 3, remember how eviscerated it got on this board (and elsewhere online)? I wonder what the cross section is for those who liked IM3 and TLJ, and vice-versa? Where the same people upset about the Mandarin being a dupe, also upset about Luke? Is there something in changing what an established character is supposed to be? Serious question. As a long time Iron Man fan (it was one of the first comic book I ever picked up, back in 1979--#119 when I was 6 years old, and loved Iron Man ever since), I had no problem with it. And I had no problem with how Luke was portrayed in TLJ.

 

[TaliBane]

Speaking for myself I have yet to mock or belittle someone for disliking the movie...a lot of people that I like and respect in real life have some real issues with TLJ and I respect that...

Literally a 10 second search later....

Wow...the challenge with a lot of the fan culture is not neck beardism or misogyny but actually this weird and frankly bizarre belief that some fans have that THEIR opinions are so valid and true that they just MUST truly be shared by everyone...it's a little crazy and I hear it all the time...no offense but your post exemplifies this...

 

[TaliBane]

Looking at that "Threadcrapping" sticky I agree that it can be worded better. Since we don't have "Positive" and "Negative" threads for any given movie that means that all opinions are welcome (as they should be.) But when people who share an opinion are having a cordial and lively discussion about said opinions and someone comes in and starts being a jerk to them, mocking them, insulting them, etc., spamming the thread with repetitive crap/youtube links for the sole purpose of derailing the previous conversation into what *they* want to talk about then that's where the threadcrapping comes in. That's always been my take on it anyway, obviously it's up to current mods to decide how to interpret and deal with such behavior.

But the TLJ conversation was never simply about "I liked it" and "I didn't." It was about "the past had to die (i.e. OT)" and "TLJ is the new, glorious future of SW." Much of the discussion in the broader media was that TLJ was a much-needed killing of what had gone before (and "to save SW" supposedly) and again - it was only the old, the intolerant and the neck-beard who wouldn't accept it.

It was pathetic, it targeted fans, it ignored the corporate interests at play, and ignored truth most of all.

And this "view" was pushed with garbage facts - the idea that a SW movie making over a billion means something significant (joining a club that even AOTC belongs to,) and that critics (all desperate to stay relevant, keep in good stead with the now-largest entertainment conglomerate in the world and tread carefully in a post #blacklivesmatter/#metoo era,) showered a "progressive" - ie CRITIC-PROOF (like BP or WW) - take on SW with praise... or even laughable absurdities like the widely reported "fact" that ESB divided the fanbase just as much in 1980 by digging through Starlog back issues (I lived through that and know EXACTLY what Gerrold/Starlog's view of SW in general was.)

TLJ is not just a conversation about "liked" and "didn't like" a movie - it was always about FAR more than that, and let's not pretend that it wasn't.

And for the record, I enjoyed Alien Covenant and Skull Island too (though I had friends on both productions) but those are NOT at all comparable situations to the TLJ debate.

 

[Khev]

Nothing can be as bad as those AVP movies. I like Shane Black (yes, even Iron Man 3!) so I'm open to what he does.

I'm open to Shane Black as well but if I had no idea he was attached and just saw the recent trailer as is I'd definitely think it was another entry from those two brothers who made AVP:R. However that being said "The Predator" does kind of look like a cheesy bad movie that you'd catch on Joe Bob Briggs' Monstervision or something so it might still be fun regardless.

Actually, thinking about Iron Man 3, remember how eviscerated it got on this board (and elsewhere online)? I wonder what the cross section is for those who liked IM3 and TLJ, and vice-versa? Where the same people upset about the Mandarin being a dupe, also upset about Luke? Is there something in changing what an established character is supposed to be? Serious question. As a long time Iron Man fan (it was one of the first comic book I ever picked up, back in 1979--#119 when I was 6 years old, and loved Iron Man ever since), I had no problem with it. And I had no problem with how Luke was portrayed in TLJ.

Yes I mentioned awhile back that I think TLJ is quite similar in a lot of ways to IM3. A divisive but well done film that garners most of it's outrage due to the fact that it didn't present established characters the way a sizable portion of the fanbase wanted them to be presented. Hate from that group against IM3 seems to have simmered over the years, we'll see how it goes with TLJ.

 

[Chakor]

I never had a problem with positivity as long as that person doesnt mind someone elses negativity or as long as they can hear the problems with the movie.

The problem with Overly Positivity is when that positivity is used to Discredit An opinion or to try to suggest that your opinion or your view is Wrong.

Since the movie is SO amazing, your problem Must be wrong and You Must be wrong, you were So stupid....that you didnt get the movie (And this was legitimately suggested when people started question this movie)

or that you somehow must have not been paying attention or that you arent smart enough to get the movie (Some websites defending the movie even wrote articles saying that TLJ was too smart for modern audiences)

People are being extremely positive about Avengers right now and theres no problem with that. people were extremely positive with Bladerunner and there was no problem there, etc etc....

it was ONLY in this movie that this positivity was turn into a weapon to mock and discredit the "haters" and suggest they were stupid.
that was one of the reasons there were so much figthing at one point. positivity turned to Smugness and it turned to looking down at people

That kind of positivity turns toxic. (Just like overly negativity turns toxic too)

I also seem to recall someone (can't remember who but it was one of only three suspects) who tried to state, for a fact, that TLJ was "good" because it marked the return of Luke Skywalker after 34-35 years (logic that would also dictate KOTCS is a good film because Harrison Ford reprised the role of Indy) and then followed it up with a coo-coo emoji as to imply that anyone who disagreed had a few screws loose.

 

[jal76]

Literally a 10 second search later....

should have taken 10 more seconds or it could be a reading comprehension issue...my post has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with disliking TLJ (didn't even mention TLJ in the post) and everything to do with anyone believing that THEIR opinion must be shared by everyone else, good or bad. Good looking out by finding that post though...you actually further substantiated my original point and demonstrated that at least I have been consistent with these views! Reading comprehension...

 

[crows]

should have taken 10 more seconds or it could be a reading comprehension issue...my post has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with disliking TLJ (didn't even mention TLJ in the post) and everything to do with anyone believing that THEIR opinion must be shared by everyone else, good or bad. Good looking out by finding that post though...you actually further substantiated my original point and demonstrated that at least I have been consistent with these views! Reading comprehension...

dude.... come on dude..... come on
WE ALL (yes we you me and everyone else ) got super aggressive about the last jedi.
I remember you arguing with at least 3 people and insulting them. Snoop had to come in at different times in that thread and tell people to chill.....

the difference is that the haters focused all their energy and all their hate and insults on the movie and on attacking Kennedy.
the super fan lovers focused their anger and hatred and attacks on the PEOPLE... which is funny because you talk about positivity and you talk about positive feelings

But the loyal fans of TLJ had some really really nasty things to say about the haters, some really nasty implications. come on now

this is not even about me pointing fingers because i was in the mud with everyone else. but the super fans and the lovers of TLJ got very nasty with anyone that had any problem.
there are a bunch of articles online doing the same.
how can you deny Talibane post when he literally quoted you insulting people's intelligence.

 

[crows]

Literally a 10 second search later....

this post is glorious my brother.
you deserve 1 IMAGINARU Rep Point

 

[jal76]

dude.... come on dude..... come on
WE ALL (yes we you me and everyone else ) got super aggressive about the last jedi.
I remember you arguing with at least 3 people and insulting them. Snoop had to come in at different times in that thread and tell people to chill.....

the difference is that the haters focused all their energy and all their hate and insults on the movie and on attacking Kennedy.
the super fan lovers focused their anger and hatred and attacks on the PEOPLE... which is funny because you talk about positivity and you talk about positive feelings

But the loyal fans of TLJ had some really really nasty things to say about the haters, some really nasty implications. come on now

this is not even about me pointing fingers because i was in the mud with everyone else. but the super fans and the lovers of TLJ got very nasty with anyone that had any problem.
there are a bunch of articles online doing the same.
how can you deny Talibane post when he literally quoted you insulting people's intelligence.

Yep...I remember it a bit differently and certainly do not recall anyone who likes TLJ insulting...well...anyone...but...I'm going to let you have it...because based upon the sheer frequency of your round the clock posts and your ability to reference old thread arguments like they were milestones in your life I suspect you might need it...so...you win...we're all nasty and negative insult specialists...enjoy...

 

[ironwez20]

Hey now don’t say that about crows ! He doesn’t sleep !

 

[YoNoSe]

Hey now don’t say that about crows ! He doesn’t sleep !

The pot ain’t gonna stir itself!

 

[rushmore223]

Some of you guys really just have nothing better to do than roll around in the mud 24/7?



Hard to believe this thread is still open.

 

[YoNoSe]

It’s amusing how some of those with the most abrasive anti-snowflake/soyboi/cuck postures take no responsibility for their own behavior, but blame the mods/CoC/other members for all of their woes.

You know when you’re being a troll.

Howsabout everyone just own their ********, pro and con, and let’s crack on?

On that note, as one who would be categorized as a “lover” - I generally disliked the novelization but at the start of Luke’s narrative there was an interesting idea. He has a bit of a daydream about what his life would have amounted to if he’d just settled down with the Toshi Station ****o lady on the farm and it’s presented as a very happy alternative.

It made me think about Luke’s journey. While heroic, it really is very sad.

I don’t fret over coulda-woulda-shouldas but I really liked this idea and wonder how it’s inclusion might have colored the perception of the state we find Luke in at the start of TLJ.

 

[rushmore223]

It’s amusing how some of those with the most abrasive anti-snowflake/soyboi/cuck postures take no responsibility for their own behavior, but blame the mods/CoC/other members for all of their woes.

You know when you’re being a troll.

Howsabout everyone just own their ********, pro and con, and let’s crack on?

On that note, as one who would be categorized as a “lover” - I generally disliked the novelization but at the start of Luke’s narrative there was an interesting idea. He has a bit of a daydream about what his life would have amounted to if he’d just settled down with the Toshi Station ****o lady on the farm and it’s presented as a very happy alternative.

It made me think about Luke’s journey. While heroic, it really is very sad.

I don’t fret over coulda-woulda-shouldas but I really liked this idea and wonder how it’s inclusion might have colored the perception of the state we find Luke in at the start of TLJ.

They turned Luke into somewhat of a tragic figure, one that was believable in my eyes. Heroes fall to their own frailties sometimes, making him a beacon of good, and an unfaltering hero seems too easy and unrealistic. Sooner or later doubt and regret can chip away at our souls, and Luke was an excellent example of that. I applaud those who took his character in that daunting direction, I'm sure some might have expected it wouldn't play well with everybody, but it was brave nonetheless and for me at least, it led to a very satisfying story.

Count me in as a TLJ lover.

The truth is, no matter what the story was, many would have been up and arms over it, I'm just glad the filmmakers didn't play it safe.

 

[jal76]

They turned Luke into somewhat of a tragic figure, one that was believable in my eyes. Heroes fall to their own frailties sometimes, making him a beacon of good, and an unfaltering hero seems too easy and unrealistic. Sooner or later doubt and regret can chip away at our souls, and Luke was an excellent example of that. I applaud those who took his character in that daunting direction, I'm sure some might have expected it wouldn't play well with everybody, but it was brave nonetheless and for me at least, it led to a very satisfying story.

Count me in as a TLJ lover.

The truth is, no matter what the story was, many would have been up and arms over it, I'm just glad the filmmakers didn't play it safe.

 

[a-dev]

Think they'll ever do the same with Rey?