Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Python]

See here we are again....

The nit picking for TLJ was the worst I have ever seen in modern cinema.

I wasn't nit picking, I've offered my thoughts on TLJ in the past without even mentioning this scene ever. I was simply replying to a one sided comment YOU made about that scene...

I don't like TLJ, not even in the slightest. But all Star Wars fans know that you cannot expect 100% accurate physics from even the best Star Wars movies. That's just a given. You don't have to resort to nit picking to be critical about TLJ, not even close and it's disingenuous to suggest this is the case as many people are doing.

You guys crack me up--SW "science" These is no science and zero logic in that universe. Go back to ANH- X wings banking and curving (opening the wings in space to attack position- what can that possibly do in a VACUUM?) in SPACE like there is an atmosphere- and sound

. They can do ANYTHING and you just have to go along with it, stop thinking it has to apply to real science an any way

You missed the point with this one. That was Jaws point entirely when he refereed to "Star Wars science". Although regarding the X-wing, opening the wings could in theory offer a better firing solution for the weapons, or a larger spread at least.

 

[xipotec]

You brought it up my friend. And while no, at 5 (ANH) and 8 (ESB) seeing the OT on the big screen I wasn't concerned with details, at least the "bombs" dropped by the Tie Bomber were glowing blue indicating some sort of energy.

But also you do have to remember, it's not 1977 or the early 80's anymore. Star Wars was something no one had ever seen before. So people were amazed by the visuals and spectacle on screen. Of course everyone, old and young, were more forgiving. It set the tone for all action/scifi movies moving forward. In 2018 that's not the case anymore. We see movies with believable CGI characters, creatures, and resurrected species (Dinosaurs anyone) that are all very believable on screen. People today want to believe. They are not necessarily smarter, but less easily fooled and wowed by pretty scenes and explosions. Part of the problem with the PT was Lucas began to feel the need to explain things like "The Force", and hence we got midichlorians. Johnson thought he could go back and just have pretty things on the big screen. That doesn't work anymore.

I'm happy for those that can somehow enjoy TLJ and overlook all it's problems. Unfortunately, that is not me....

All good and true points......

So here is a question for you. Is it possible for a SW film to really deliver an experience similar to the OT ever again for the mass audience? Or will it be doomed to be polarizing?

Also, are superhero films doomed to the same fate eventually? Especially Batman? As he is the one we have seen many times before?


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[dan350zr]

The X-Wing foils in open position might not take the stress of hyperspace, that's why they open and close

Basically Lucas set the Star Wars Physics in the first 3 movies.... The Tie Fighters and X-Wing fought like planes of world war 2, even Lucas admitted that was his inspiration... And that's more or less how all the ships flew in the movies, Rian tried to reinvent the wheel in regards to how all the ships worked in space. With X-Wings doing peel outs in space and able to turn on a dime in atmospheric combat..

The bombing run at the beginning of the movie was flawed even for "Star Wars Physics", the cockpit took a direct hit and all the atmosphere was sucked out of the ship, yet the female pilot was still breathing, putting that aside, when the bomb doors were open there is no force field keeping the atmosphere in, if there were we would of saw a disturbance in the shield when the bombs went through it, but nadda… And lets not forget at the end of the scene we can see a fire blazing in the cockpit area where there is no atmosphere to begin with because it all got sucked out into space several mins before..

Rian just cranked up the absurdity which in his mind was making things more "cool".... He's probably the worst person they could of hired to do a Star Wars movie but he seems to kiss Kennedy's *** good enough that he got a trilogy out of it...

Anyways you can spend eternity picking apart Rian's films, he makes it pretty easy to do so... but at this point it's like

 

[xipotec]

The X-Wing foils in open position might not take the stress of hyperspace, that's why they open and close

Basically Lucas set the Star Wars Physics in the first 3 movies.... The Tie Fighters and X-Wing fought like planes of world war 2, even Lucas admitted that was his inspiration... And that's more or less how all the ships flew in the movies, Rian tried to reinvent the wheel in regards to how all the ships worked in space. With X-Wings doing peel outs in space and able to turn on a dime in atmospheric combat..

The bombing run at the beginning of the movie was flawed even for "Star Wars Physics", the cockpit took a direct hit and all the atmosphere was sucked out of the ship, yet the female pilot was still breathing, putting that aside, when the bomb doors were open there is no force field keeping the atmosphere in, if there were we would of saw a disturbance in the shield when the bombs went through it, but nadda… And lets not forget at the end of the scene we can see a fire blazing in the cockpit area where there is no atmosphere to begin with because it all got sucked out into space several mins before..

Rian just cranked up the absurdity which in his mind was making things more "cool".... He's probably the worst person they could of hired to do a Star Wars movie but he seems to kiss Kennedy's *** good enough that he got a trilogy out of it...

Anyways you can spend eternity picking apart Rian's films, he makes it pretty easy to do so... but at this point it's like

Talk about selective memory......

Fire, sound, explosions in space are all common to all SW films....

OT anyone?

Might as well argue about explosions and fire in space....

Selective memory is selective

Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[YoNoSe]

First peek inside the sacred Jedi texts (courtesy of Marvel's Poe Dameron series):

Not sure about the dialogue but that's at least the nicest illustration I've seen from the comics.

 

[Khev]

I'll probably always have a "love/dislike" relationship with TLJ but there's no way I'll spend the majority of my energy focusing on the parts I dislike especially since none of those elements are deal-breakers. I'm iffy on the whole "Force takes action to balance itself out" aspect hinted at with the prophecy of the Chosen One and seemingly spelled out more specifically in TLJ. I say "seemingly" because I can always just assume that no one, not even Luke or Snoke, fully understands the Force with 100% accuracy so even their statements can be taken with a grain of salt to preserve the mystery.

Compared to TFA and TLJ I can definitely appreciate how tight the narrative of the OT was though. With just a few paragraphs in the opening scrolls and select lines of dialogue from Obi-Wan or a random Imperial Officer or two I always felt that I knew who the Rebels and the Empire were in relation to one another, what led to the conflict and why they were fighting. Everything had a clear beginning and George followed each thread through to the end (with the slight exception of Leia being retconned as the "other" Yoda spoke of.)

That just isn't the case with the backstory of the ST. The films themselves don't spell out how the FO came to power at all, why Snoke is in charge, how Leia's Resistance connects to the Republic or even how long the conflict has been going on. TFA seems to imply that we're witnessing the first true offense of the FO but then in TLJ Poe refers the Dreadnaughts (plural as if he's aware of them and knows the FO has more than one) as "fleet killers" and instantly recognizes Snoke's personal Star Destroyer on sight?? I understand that comics and novels fill in the gaps and as a fan I can make up my own sufficient connections between dots but during the OT we just didn't have to and Lucas didn't even need to over-explain anything to make it all clear.

He did falter with the PT in that regard though since there were a number of confusing and unexplained aspects that seemed to be set up and then go nowhere (Syfo-Dias, what "bringing balance to the Force" even means, etc.) in that trilogy as well.

 

[Otomofan]

Not sure about the dialogue but that's at least the nicest illustration I've seen from the comics.

It was just traced digitally from a screen grab. Almost all current comic artists fake it like that these days.

 

[YoNoSe]

I'll probably always have a "love/dislike" relationship with TLJ but there's no way I'll spend the majority of my energy focusing on the parts I dislike especially since none of those elements are deal-breakers. I'm iffy on the whole "Force takes action to balance itself out" aspect hinted at with the prophecy of the Chosen One and seemingly spelled out more specifically in TLJ. I say "seemingly" because I can always just assume that no one, not even Luke or Snoke, fully understands the Force with 100% accuracy so even their statements can be taken with a grain of salt to preserve the mystery.

Compared to TFA and TLJ I can definitely appreciate how tight the narrative of the OT was though. With just a few paragraphs in the opening scrolls and select lines of dialogue from Obi-Wan or a random Imperial Officer or two I always felt that I knew who the Rebels and the Empire were in relation to one another, what led to the conflict and why they were fighting. Everything had a clear beginning and George followed each thread through to the end (with the slight exception of Leia being retconned as the "other" Yoda spoke of.)

That just isn't the case with the backstory of the ST. The films themselves don't spell out how the FO came to power at all, why Snoke is in charge, how Leia's Resistance connects to the Republic or even how long the conflict has been going on. TFA seems to imply that we're witnessing the first true offense of the FO but then in TLJ Poe refers the Dreadnaughts (plural as if he's aware of them and knows the FO has more than one) as "fleet killers" and instantly recognizes Snoke's personal Star Destroyer on sight?? I understand that comics and novels fill in the gaps and as a fan I can make up my own sufficient connections between dots but during the OT we just didn't have to and Lucas didn't even need to over-explain anything to make it all clear.

He did falter with the PT in that regard though since there were a number of confusing and unexplained aspects that seemed to be set up and then go nowhere (Syfo-Dias, what "bringing balance to the Force" even means, etc.) in that trilogy as well.

I dunno...I think TFA set 'em up pretty good. But Johnson was like, "instead of knocking these down, what if we free some space horsies with my imaginary girlfriend?"

 

[YoNoSe]

It was just traced digitally from a screen grab. Almost all current comic artists fake it like that these days.

Ugh....I wish you didn't say that. Sounds accurate.

 

[Khev]

I dunno...I think TFA set 'em up pretty good. But Johnson was like, "instead of knocking these down, what if we free some space horsies with my imaginary girlfriend?"

Abrams really just needs to have Episode IX reveal that Rose never comes out of her coma. Either that or have Rocket Raccoon show up and put her in her place. "Oh boo hoo! My sister died so now I get to judge everyone on both sides of the conflict! Boo hoo! Yeah well guess what sweetheart we've ALL watched loved ones die now join the fight or go back into your stupid coma!"

 

[YoNoSe]

Abrams really just needs to have Episode IX reveal that Rose never comes out of her coma.

Or say nothing at all.

The real bummer IMO is that the actress does the best work that could be done with this script. It's not her fault.

Rose is the true Mary Sue of this trilogy - fantasy fulfillment by the author, to insert his know-it-all virtual identity into the narrative.

Maybe RJ will go full Wachowski and will actually be Rose someday.

 

[crows]

 

[Khev]

Or say nothing at all.

The real bummer IMO is that the actress does the best work that could be done with this script. It's not her fault.

Rose is the true Mary Sue of this trilogy - fantasy fulfillment by the author, to insert his know-it-all virtual identity into the narrative.

Maybe RJ will go full Wachowski and will actually be Rose someday.

Totally.

At least RJ compartmentalized him/herself enough away from the characters that mattered for pretty much the entire film's run time.

Resistance: "Luke and Rey are back, sweet!"

Rose: "Zzzzzzz."

lol

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Or say nothing at all.

The real bummer IMO is that the actress does the best work that could be done with this script. It's not her fault.

Rose is the true Mary Sue of this trilogy - fantasy fulfillment by the author, to insert his know-it-all virtual identity into the narrative.

Maybe RJ will go full Wachowski and will actually be Rose someday.

 

[YoNoSe]

 

[Khev]

View attachment 414918

He gets a chance to invent *any character he wants* to join the roster below and he settled on "Rose Tico."

Like you said nothing against Kellie Marie Tran but what the hell RJ.

 

[YoNoSe]

Imagine if Luke and Ben never got off Tatooine but they freed a couple of Dewbacks. "Now it's worth it!"

 

[Khev]

Imagine if Luke and Ben never got off Tatooine but they freed a couple of Dewbacks. "Now it's worth it!"

"I have you now!"

*boom*

"What?"

"Look out!"

*boom*

"You're all clear kid now let's blow this thing and go home!"

*Wedge comes from out of nowhere and crashes into Luke, Yavin is destroyed*

 

[ajp4mgs]

I'll probably always have a "love/dislike" relationship with TLJ but there's no way I'll spend the majority of my energy focusing on the parts I dislike especially since none of those elements are deal-breakers.

Same here. But I think this is true of most sci-fi/fantasy movies. It's easier to just accept everything in a sci-fi/fantasy story when you're a kid, and thoroughly enjoy every aspect of it. Age forms a tighter bond with reality and cynicism, though. So, you see more flaws and object to more dialogue, character motivation, and plot narratives. As an adult, these types of movies basically just need to give me more good than bad in order to be enjoyable overall.

I still love ROTJ. But as kid in 1983, I thought it was the greatest thing ever. I didn't love the Ewoks, but I didn't have all the reasons to object to them which I developed as I got older. The dialogue between Luke and Leia on the Endor bridge/walkway didn't make me cringe as a kid. And Anakin getting a happy Force ghost (because apparently killing the Emperor cancels out turning to the Dark Side and committing countless murders and atrocities) didn't bother me. Those things (and others) bother me now, but I still love ROTJ. I recognize that it's clearly behind ESB and ANH in terms of quality, but there's so much more good than bad that I don't separate it from the other two very much in terms of enjoyment.

TLJ has its flaws. No doubt. But, on balance, there was so much that I enjoyed about it to overwhelm the parts I hate about it. For those who think Luke was a wimply coward in TLJ, I can understand never being able to like the movie. I don't agree with that view of Luke at all, but I totally understand that sort of fan reaction. It's when the criticisms amount to nothing more than the same types of things that already existed in the OT, and especially in the PT, that the negative view of TLJ has no credibility with me.

If you're a fan of the OT, and you've seen Star Destroyers run into each other - and you've seen a second Death Star get built with a very similar vulnerability to the first one, how can you have a problem with tactical buffoonery of the First Order?

If you've seen Luke destroy a Death Star by using the Force, yet his only training to that point consisted of Kenobi merely introducing him to the vague concept of "feel" rather than see, how can you object to using Force abilities without actual training?

If you're okay with Luke holding his own against Darth Freakin' Vader in the ESB lightsaber duel - despite never getting on-screen lightsaber training from Kenobi or Yoda; and never demonstrating any previous life experience with similar weapons - how can you have a problem with Rey (who was shown to have acquired formidable fighting skills with her staff in order to survive as a scavenger on Jaaku) using a lightsaber well?

And, if you're okay with the prequels, how can you possibly object to the ST ruining OT characters? . . . or having plot holes? . . . or bad dialogue? . . . or bad acting? . . . or cringe-inducing goofiness? . . . or anything at all!?

He gets a chance to invent *any character he wants* to join the roster below and he settled on "Rose Tico."

Like you said nothing against Kellie Marie Tran but what the hell RJ.

And Lucas chose to create Jar-Jar. It happens.

 

[YoNoSe]

"If you strike me down you're going to feel really stupid because I'm not here but actually you will still accomplish your goal but it's confusing where that leaves you because your motivations have all been removed."

screenwriting = write the most contrarian thing for the moment, leave the rest for the next guy