Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Adolfo]

This movie is the equal to the matrix reloaded. It even ends the same way.

The casino scene is bit by bit the same as the merovingian scene.

Any matrix film > TLJ

 

[Wor-Gar]

I know your experience is anecdotal, but no matter how big TLJ is at the box office there'll always be the question of how much bigger it could have been if more than half the audience actually liked it.

Some day someone will hit a Star Wars movie out of the park... and it will make 3 billion dollars... and then we'll know how much this TLJ could have made.

 

[TaliBane]

If anything the rebellion should be considered "above" killing their own people for their cause.. Its one thing to do it when there is no other way.. Its another when its an actual battle plan.

I get what you are saying.. But I truly believe that if this happens in a better movie.. Nobody cares.

Well, Han has an auto-pilot in a hyperspace-capable ship, so I'm guessing the whole "killing their own people" thing wouldn't be necessary.

But I agree - if TLJ was a truly great movie, maybe you'd just overlook it. As it is, it's part of an aged Velveeta buffet.

I remember when the top 10 grossing films of all time use to be almost all timeless quality. Star Wars, ET, JAWS, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jurassic Park... Now its covered with shame and regret

Seriously though.. I cant get over what High ticket prices and more theaters has done to the top grossing films..

Minions (apparently) outgrosses Raider of the Lost Ark.

Welcome to the era of brand-driven 5,000 theater opening weekends with insanely inflated (and "premium" and IMAX) ticket prices stuffing the gross. Even adjusting for the ticket price inflation, you really can't adjust for the totally different ways that movies are released today - it's not apples to apples even with the inflation adjustment.

Even saying that Raiders was on a max of 1,000 screens and Minions around 4,500 screens just doesn't take into account the totally different eras as a way to compare popularity with moviegoers.

Never in all of movie history has it been easier for a major entertainment conglomerate to instantly get a new branded release into the all-time (unadjusted obviously) top 20, or to a billion worldwide. Back in the day, it was nearly impossible. Today - obviously not guaranteed, but somewhat easy:

29 of the 32 movies that have grossed more than a billion (unadjusted for inflation) have been released in the past 15 years - more than 3/4's of them in the last decade.

This... is the context of the release of TLJ.

Wut?

It's the little details - aka the FACTS - that the doofuses in the mainstream media simply don't get. "TLJ made a BILLION!" "TLJ got an A from Cinemscore!"

Seemingly oblivious to the fact that TLJ couldn't NOT make a billion worldwide - that was impossible. Or the fact that AOTC - that they openly scorn - also made a billion adjusted for inflation. And also got an "A" (well, okay: an A-) from Cinemascore.

Look, I get it - EVERYONE (including established major media) is struggling to understand how TLJ is actually performing and being perceived, both financially and "with fans." How it has been received and what it means going forward. Did "regular" moviegoers like it and "fans" not? Are the "haters" a small handful of hundreds, or thousands, or are they hundreds of thousands (and are the just "pathetic die-hards" or older fans who can't "move on")?

Even with (or because of) the internet, it's hard to say. It's confusing for the major media as well as people on here. I see the same snide comments on here, parroting what the mainstream media is saying.

But all of it - the billion gross, the Cinemascore A and the RT fresh rating ultimately don't "prove" much given TLJ is performing just as ANY SW film - or other major IP branded film - has financially performed in the past, even maligned ones (and also in the context of an era of Disney now with unprecedented media power and film criticism having faded into obscurity.)

The backlash IS pretty visible - Metacritic, despite the obvious TLJ high critic score, has user reviews at over 50% negative (though only about 6,000 total,) the official Star Wars Facebook page has flame wars below every official cheery TLJ post, Youtube is clearly more neg than positive on TLJ (but in line with the usual YT dumpster fire,) Rottentomatoes users dropping to 50% with 170,000 ratings.

But all of it is unquantifiable and the media struggles to place it in context. That, coupled with the perception that TLJ is "progressive" (female and minority representation, perhaps a push against male "toxicity") and therefore political has made the media sharpen their knives against detractors in a particularly savage fashion - complete with ageism, sexism and even racism.

Ugh, right? TL/DR

 

[Wor-Gar]

29 of the 32 movies that have grossed more than a billion (unadjusted for inflation) have been released in the past 15 years - more than 3/4's of them in the last decade.

Thank the "new markets".

Also explains the 'lowest common denominator' dilemma -- successful equals simple, easily understandable action-oriented, minimal dialogue "cartoons".

 

[Adolfo]

Even clown folk hated this film...Lemmings are jumping off cliffs in record numbers these past 3 weeks...TLJ is suspect

 

[Wor-Gar]

clown folk

Many waifus have died.

*crows sad*

 

[Prime Clone]

This movie is the equal to the matrix reloaded. It even ends the same way.

The casino scene is bit by bit the same as the merovingian scene.

The multiple Reys in the cave and Force projection were definitely Matrix-y.

Thank the "new markets".

Also explains the 'lowest common denominator' dilemma -- successful equals simple, easily understandable action-oriented, minimal dialogue "cartoons".

I think inflation is the simpler explanation.

 

[crows]

Well, Han has an auto-pilot in a hyperspace-capable ship, so I'm guessing the whole "killing their own people" thing wouldn't be necessary.

But I agree - if TLJ was a truly great movie, maybe you'd just overlook it. As it is, it's part of an aged Velveeta buffet.



Minions (apparently) outgrosses Raider of the Lost Ark.

Welcome to the era of brand-driven 5,000 theater opening weekends with insanely inflated (and "premium" and IMAX) ticket prices stuffing the gross. Even adjusting for the ticket price inflation, you really can't adjust for the totally different ways that movies are released today - it's not apples to apples even with the inflation adjustment.

Even saying that Raiders was on a max of 1,000 screens and Minions around 4,500 screens just doesn't take into account the totally different eras as a way to compare popularity with moviegoers.

Never in all of movie history has it been easier for a major entertainment conglomerate to instantly get a new branded release into the all-time (unadjusted obviously) top 20, or to a billion worldwide. Back in the day, it was nearly impossible. Today - obviously not guaranteed, but somewhat easy:

29 of the 32 movies that have grossed more than a billion (unadjusted for inflation) have been released in the past 15 years - more than 3/4's of them in the last decade.

This... is the context of the release of TLJ.



It's the little details - aka the FACTS - that the doofuses in the mainstream media simply don't get. "TLJ made a BILLION!" "TLJ got an A from Cinemscore!"

Seemingly oblivious to the fact that TLJ couldn't NOT make a billion worldwide - that was impossible. Or the fact that AOTC - that they openly scorn - also made a billion adjusted for inflation. And also got an "A" (well, okay: an A-) from Cinemascore.

Look, I get it - EVERYONE (including established major media) is struggling to understand how TLJ is actually performing and being perceived, both financially and "with fans." How it has been received and what it means going forward. Did "regular" moviegoers like it and "fans" not? Are the "haters" a small handful of hundreds, or thousands, or are they hundreds of thousands (and are the just "pathetic die-hards" or older fans who can't "move on")?

Even with (or because of) the internet, it's hard to say. It's confusing for the major media as well as people on here. I see the same snide comments on here, parroting what the mainstream media is saying.

But all of it - the billion gross, the Cinemascore A and the RT fresh rating ultimately don't "prove" much given TLJ is performing just as ANY SW film - or other major IP branded film - has financially performed in the past, even maligned ones (and also in the context of an era of Disney now with unprecedented media power and film criticism having faded into obscurity.)

The backlash IS pretty visible - Metacritic, despite the obvious TLJ high critic score, has user reviews at over 50% negative (though only about 6,000 total,) the official Star Wars Facebook page has flame wars below every official cheery TLJ post, Youtube is clearly more neg than positive on TLJ (but in line with the usual YT dumpster fire,) Rottentomatoes users dropping to 50% with 170,000 ratings.

But all of it is unquantifiable and the media struggles to place it in context. That, coupled with the perception that TLJ is "progressive" (female and minority representation, perhaps a push against male "toxicity") and therefore political has made the media sharpen their knives against detractors in a particularly savage fashion - complete with ageism, sexism and even racism.

Ugh, right? TL/DR

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

It's the little details - aka the FACTS - that the doofuses in the mainstream media simply don't get. "TLJ made a BILLION!" "TLJ got an A from Cinemscore!"

Seemingly oblivious to the fact that TLJ couldn't NOT make a billion worldwide - that was impossible. Or the fact that AOTC - that they openly scorn - also made a billion adjusted for inflation. And also got an "A" (well, okay: an A-) from Cinemascore.

Look, I get it - EVERYONE (including established major media) is struggling to understand how TLJ is actually performing and being perceived, both financially and "with fans." How it has been received and what it means going forward. Did "regular" moviegoers like it and "fans" not? Are the "haters" a small handful of hundreds, or thousands, or are they hundreds of thousands (and are the just "pathetic die-hards" or older fans who can't "move on")?

Even with (or because of) the internet, it's hard to say. It's confusing for the major media as well as people on here. I see the same snide comments on here, parroting what the mainstream media is saying.

But all of it - the billion gross, the Cinemascore A and the RT fresh rating ultimately don't "prove" much given TLJ is performing just as ANY SW film - or other major IP branded film - has financially performed in the past, even maligned ones (and also in the context of an era of Disney now with unprecedented media power and film criticism having faded into obscurity.)

The backlash IS pretty visible - Metacritic, despite the obvious TLJ high critic score, has user reviews at over 50% negative (though only about 6,000 total,) the official Star Wars Facebook page has flame wars below every official cheery TLJ post, Youtube is clearly more neg than positive on TLJ (but in line with the usual YT dumpster fire,) Rottentomatoes users dropping to 50% with 170,000 ratings.

But all of it is unquantifiable and the media struggles to place it in context. That, coupled with the perception that TLJ is "progressive" (female and minority representation, perhaps a push against male "toxicity") and therefore political has made the media sharpen their knives against detractors in a particularly savage fashion - complete with ageism, sexism and even racism.

Ugh, right? TL/DR

I was just shocked that TDK was already a decade old.

But all that stuff you said there makes sense

 

[Adolfo]

Can't wait for Wheaties to have broomstick boy on the box.

 

[RIDDICK]

Omg.....sexy waifus in that poster......

 

[Wor-Gar]

What..... The..... ****!!!???

How is that even explainable?

 

[xipotec]

It is interesting to see the reviews, which pretty much show a 50:50 split in like dislike.

Yet the money keeps rolling in. Even without the over thought analysis comparing box office of this to past films, by just about any measure it was a financial success....one might argue more was expected ....but right now , as it stands , it’s not the flop the reviews seem to suggest...

I am in the camp that more people who like it are casual fans who do not run to the computer to post their hate on every web site they can....they go, pay the admission, had a good twine and went home. Maybe seeing it again with people who are similar to them.

I say this because I had dinner with just these type of people this week....

They heard it was controversial...but wanted to see a film Saturday night...saw TLJ ...enjoyed it.

There is something to be said on contemplating the box off had all fans like it.

I just do not think that any SW film will every achieve that....Ever.....again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Adolfo]

That film LoL > TLJ

 

[crows]

 

[Prime Clone]

I just do not think that any SW film will every achieve that....Ever.....again.

I'm not sure if LFL is to be commended for taking a risk on something so un-SW... or if it's so disconnected it didn't realize how un-SW it was.

My theory is that Kennedy was sold on Johnson's "Force Kids" pitch to capture a new generation of fans. Time will tell if it was worth alienating the old-schoolers.

 

[klwn]

I'm not sure if LFL is to be commended for taking a risk on something so un-SW... or if it's so disconnected it didn't realize how un-SW it was.

My theory is that Kennedy was sold on Johnson's "Force Kids" pitch to capture a new generation of fans. Time will tell if it was worth alienating the old-schoolers.

Pretty sure she was sold on a lot more than that. Especially the idea of having herself (Holdo) in the movie.
Force sensitive kids are nothing new in the SW universe anyway, the PT has lots of cute little padawans. I doubt showing a kid Force pulling a broom at the end of the movie will have much of an impact on the age of the fan base. They would have to dedicate a lot more screen time to this aspect of the story.

 

[TaliBane]

I was just shocked that TDK was already a decade old.

But all that stuff you said there makes sense

Two weeks to the ten year anniversary of Ledger's death.

 

[Prime Clone]

Pretty sure she was sold on a lot more than that. Especially the idea of having herself (Holdo) in the movie.
Force sensitive kids are nothing new in the SW universe anyway, the PT has lots of cute little padawans. I doubt showing a kid Force pulling a broom at the end of the movie will have much of an impact on the age of the fan base. They would have to dedicate a lot more screen time to this aspect of the story.

I'm betting that's the subject of Johnson's new trilogy. Of course I could be wrong.

On a side note, the TLJ Visual Dictionary confirms Snoke isn't a Sith - so the Plagueis theory is gone for good.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Two weeks to the ten year anniversary of Ledger's death.

He'd be 38 years old.