Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

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So you want Disney to control directors and not give them freedom? Only for people to complain that Disney isn't giving directors creative freedom :lol

You misinterpreted my post, where did I say that? There is a huge difference between controlling directors and not giving them freedom, and what I said.
It's not about Disney. It's about the Lucasfilm story group having some idea of where they are going, just like Feige does at Marvel Studios. They have a general plan and that's how they can know what the next 20 movies are going to be.
MCU directors have freedom to do a lot of things as long as they are hitting certain pre-determined key points in the story. That's why the movies connect so well but still have distinct vibes and tones that come from each director.

A Star Wars trilogy isn't something you improvise. Originally yes, when it was all new and fresh and Lucas had yet to figure out Vader was Luke's father and Leia his sister. Now we have a giant pre-established, intricate universe. That **** can't work anymore.

The boulders thing is absolutely insane. I mean there is literally zero planning from one movie to the next.
 
I understand that, and Star Wars certainly has those elements, but Lucas also added the mythological to it thereby taking it beyond his influences such as Flash Gordon. To make it easier to imagine, let’s say Star Wars is a story told around a campfire. The PT and the OT could be told as a story and they would follow the mythological hero’s journey (the pt to a slightly lesser extent as its in reverse in some ways), except one thing that Lucas did better was that the hero didn’t do the Freudian/Oedipal killing of the father, but saved him, making Luke a hero unlike many others. The story as it ends here is a proper myth.

However then you get to the next part of the story and say the mythological hero was now so disturbed by his nephews power (who hadn’t done anything yet) that he considered killing him in his sleep. Does that seem to fit? It’s more of a tv show progression, where a twist has been done to keep the drama going, but it’s not worthy of a legendary story. Not to mention that another hero comes who can do everything the last hero struggled with better than him and in a period of 2 weeks without training. Also the rogue character went back to being a seedy loner after learning his lesson to open his heart in the previous saga. And etc. That’s my problem with the direction the ST has gone in.

In Greek myth for example, eventually the stories changed for example to being about Zeus and his many sexual exploits and became more like a soap opera. All the gods had slept with each other and were double crossing each other. It was always a family drama at heart too, but it became more small. The myths lost what made them so powerful and became like a tv series to the people, just entertainment, with what made it so immortal before lost.

That’s where Star Wars is heading now, and honestly it’s the natural progression of things so it was going to happen at some point (Although maybe not if Lucas hadn’t sold it). The same thing happens to all religions eventually as well as the core is lost and everything added on top takes importance. And there will be devout followers of the new stuff; but it will never contain the impact of the core message/myth. Less in the PT, and almost nonexistent in the ST. And I mean so many people think of Star Wars as religion anyway.

Just my take on that, but I do understand where you’re coming from and value the fact that you really got into what made it work for you in a deeper sense.

The problems began when Lucas ended the series in 1983, but with the intention to still make six more films.

By the end of ROTJ Luke's journey had really ended. If Lucas had managed to make a ST in the '80s and early '90s the main cast would've been young enough to lead their own further adventures.

But the PT came next, and then nothing until a few years ago so the main cast were too old to be the leads (with regard to the young target audience). So Han and Leia get shoe horned in - Han's last outing and Leia in a managerial role, and both in a parental capacity to a hard to accept wayward man child.

And Luke is off screen until the last minute.

The only way the series could go forward is by marginalising the older OT actors to showcase the new younger cast. That meant finding a reason why Luke wasn't centre stage in the Resistance. So they added an epilogue to his journey that technically ended in ROTJ.
 
I guess it can be rationalised in terms of committing suicide in Jedi robes to symbolise the end of both himself and the Jedi Order.

Haha that’s rather grim.. but let’s run with it

She did hand him the saber.. if he was going to do seppuku, there was no better item to do it with, especially for a Jedi..

And since he was cut off from the force he clearly couldn’t become one with it... I would also doubt that one could become one with the force at the end after going out as such a coward

And lastly if he was going to throw himself off the cliff he could still have done that afterwards... he wasn’t very committed to this suicide plan then :lol

Unless the ***** milk was slowly poisoning him all along..
 
tumblr_p2d66nryZn1w6j24yo1_540.gif

:lol :lol :lol

Funny, I've never met a person in real life that hated this movie, I think you're all Russian bots. :lol

Neither have I and I like in a state where "if'n it ain't a western or Christ'n movie it ain't gud!" :lol


It's not as hated to the degree that internet posters and Youtube 'personalities' would like people to believe.

So very true.
 
You misinterpreted my post, where did I say that? There is a huge difference between controlling directors and not giving them freedom, and what I said.
It's not about Disney. It's about the Lucasfilm story group having some idea of where they are going, just like Feige does at Marvel Studios. They have a general plan and that's how they can know what the next 20 movies are going to be.
MCU directors have freedom to do a lot of things as long as they are hitting certain pre-determined key points in the story. That's why the movies connect so well but still have distinct vibes and tones that come from each director.

A Star Wars trilogy isn't something you improvise. Originally yes, when it was all new and fresh and Lucas had yet to figure out Vader was Luke's father and Leia his sister. Now we have a giant pre-established, intricate universe. That **** can't work anymore.

The boulders thing is absolutely insane. I mean there is literally zero planning from one movie to the next.

About Marvel, they used to plan far ahead. And did it do them good? Well, it gave them Age of Ultron. With Whedon having a breakdown during the press tour and the movie having useless setup scenes like Thor's vision of Ragnarok. Then Feige took full control, and we've seen less setup and more creative control for directors.
 
RJ originally had Luke with the Force until it was vetoed by his overseers. He wasn't fired because he's a yesman, unlike CT.





 
I don’t think there is any doubt Mark is not happy with Luke’s arc.

He wanted what a lot of disappointed fans wanted....they wanted a 60 year old hero to come in and save the day. They wanted these films to be about Luke again. And while I would like to see that as well, it was pretty obvious it Was not going to be that from the start.

Now, that’s not t say I didn’t like the direction they DID go.

It was something I didn’t expect, but I was very satisfied by the end of the film. I have not seen it again but I am sure I will see even more I like the second time. As with most films...hell I am still picking up stuff in Fury Road on the 30th viewing!

Mark saying he’s not pleased with the character arc has no sway in if I like it or not.....just like anyone here pointing out plot holes doesn’t......


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I don’t think there is any doubt Mark is not happy with Luke’s arc.

He wanted what a lot of disappointed fans wanted....they wanted a 60 year old hero to come in and save the day. They wanted these films to be about Luke again. And while I would like to see that as well, it was pretty obvious it Was not going to be that from the start.

Now, that’s not t say I didn’t like the direction they DID go.

It was something I didn’t expect, but I was very satisfied by the end of the film. I have not seen it again but I am sure I will see even more I like the second time. As with most films...hell I am still picking up stuff in Fury Road on the 30th viewing!

Mark saying he’s not pleased with the character arc has no sway in if I like it or not.....just like anyone here pointing out plot holes doesn’t......


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I don't think most people who hate the movie hate it because Luke was no longer the lead protagonist. The problem is the disrespectful way they had him pass in the torch. I would've liked Rey if it weren't for her being a cardboard character with a jobber aura. She's more of a cynical political symbol than a SW character. More propaganda than personality and story.
 
I don’t think there is any doubt Mark is not happy with Luke’s arc.

He wanted what a lot of disappointed fans wanted....they wanted a 60 year old hero to come in and save the day. They wanted these films to be about Luke again. And while I would like to see that as well, it was pretty obvious it Was not going to be that from the start.

Now, that’s not t say I didn’t like the direction they DID go.

It was something I didn’t expect, but I was very satisfied by the end of the film. I have not seen it again but I am sure I will see even more I like the second time. As with most films...hell I am still picking up stuff in Fury Road on the 30th viewing!

Mark saying he’s not pleased with the character arc has no sway in if I like it or not.....just like anyone here pointing out plot holes doesn’t......


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No, i vividly remember most speculation people had about luke dying or sacrificing himself.

People even like a year before already thought of him dying
 
92% of screens in 7 days....
That HAS to be a record. A new record break.

They can drop it from 100% of their screens. Still doesn't change the fact that it's already outgrossed almost every film in history (and is still climbing.)

I'm not sure why you guys insist on continuing to post box office stats. You're always going to lose that argument, lol.
 
They can drop it from 100% of their screens. Still doesn't change the fact that it's already outgrossed almost every film in history (and is still climbing.)

I'm not sure why you guys insist on continuing to post box office stats. You're always going to lose that argument, lol.

The movie has made 1.3 billion WITHOUT China. :lol

More than 3x its production AND marketing budget and perhaps maybe even 4 x its budget without China.

What a true disaster lol
 
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I want to know the % of SW fans who are die hards that must own every SW movie.

Raise your hand if you’re one of those SW movie completists.

Mine are up I own the PT!

I bet a high % of TLJ/Kennedy haters are still going to give Disney $30 for TLJ bluray.

Disney is aorry that you’re upset and they thank you for paying to watch TLJ, buying TLJ bluray and IX tickets and the eventual IX bluray lol.
 
They can drop it from 100% of their screens. Still doesn't change the fact that it's already outgrossed almost every film in history (and is still climbing.)

I'm not sure why you guys insist on continuing to post box office stats. You're always going to lose that argument, lol.

What good did money do to the prequel trilogy?

Lucas reputation on the floor, thousands of figures in clearance bins that nobody wanted, actors' careers ruined by the prequels. Lucas seen as an embarrassment in the industry.
Years of mockery and ridicule.

All these people are rich. Regardless. REGARDLESS.

Things like reputation and fame become more important.

Look at hillary clinton. One of the most rich family in the world, rich beyond our dreams. Richest than 90% of the world

But losing to trumpo..... after months of campaigning..... after months of celebrities shilling for you.... after months of mocking trumpo....

And he beats her... no amount of money can take away that humiliation... that despair.
All that money could not take away the extreme embarrassment and humiliation away...

You guys act like mney somehow will protect this movie of years of mockery and ridicule

A bad movie will make a person quit the business...

Just ask Sean Connery... rich beyond his dreams...
Yet the humiliation of extraordinary league was big enough to make him quit.

How many directors have had their career ruined by a bad movie.....
 
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