Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[crows]

TLJ figures clearenced for $1.00-$1.70 including Rey. A real horror story.

Omg i need to go get some of these, im not joking either. I can use the body for a custom The Thing figure or something like ythat

 

[Khev]

Did Hamill say that in an interview somewhere? Or are you quoting from his tweet when he tried to recant his statements about being unhappy about the movie.

He sent out a separate tweet mocking the one website that claimed his death came as a surprise to him. He also said this in an interview the very next day after the film hit theaters (not "weeks later"):

“Well, I’m still in denial,” Hamill joked about the fact he’s no longer alive in the “Star Wars” universe. “I just think he transported somewhere else…The first thing I said [to Rian] was, ‘Can’t you wait and do this in Episode IX?'”

https://www.indiewire.com/2017/12/s...-mark-hamill-luke-ending-spoilers-1201908343/

So if the "first" thing he said to Rian upon learning of his character's death was "can't you wait and do this in Episode iX" then that literally could not have been a conversation that happened after the movie premiered. He obviously knew early enough during the filming/before filming that he had ample time to throw in his two cents about delaying the death. Interestingly enough Hamill did NOT claim to say "I hate this, what a lame death" he only requested that it be moved out an extra episode.

And like I said, lots of different dialogue can be recorded. Fact: Directors film the same scene with multiple takes, and sometimes dialogue, over and and over.. So they have lots of options in post and to see how they play out.

Again I have to wonder how you can sit back and truly think that such logic is ample defense of your supposition. Hamill has discussed knowing his character's fate beforehand multiple times. Kylo Ren's dialogue foreshadowed his fate. Leia and Rey's dialogue openly acknowledged it. But you honestly expect me to believe that Disney orders alternate takes of each scene (from beginning to end of a movie) just in case they need to play hardball right before the film is released and off a main character who pisses them off? In your mind that's a likely and legitimate reality to you? Even after you acknowledged the absurdity of making up a "Gareth Edwards got fired" narrative that isn't based on any concrete evidence at all?

I guess I just don't "get" the need to blindly cling to a narrative that seemingly overlaps with my own opinions despite any level of reason or common sense. Hell I might as well start a narrative that Daisy looked happy after the premiere because she just learned for the first time that her character survived and that her last scene with Leia was just an "alternate take" of her death scene that they chose instead. Nevermind there being no evidence *whatsoever* that would actually support such a bizarre scenario.

It's clear you'll never change your opinion and admit this is a terrible written movie, but don't dismiss fact from fiction.

Fact from fiction. The "fiction" being scenes that we know were shot and edited into the movie, words that we know the director and actor said, but the "fact" is a guess as to what Hamill was thinking during a bewildered look on his face. Or the "fact" that it's a "terrible written movie." Almost every sentence in your post speaks to the absurd level of altered reality that so many of the most vocal haters of this film cling to.

Like most critics and many fans I really liked the film and found it to be very well written. I recognize that that is my opinion. I don't pretend that it isn't. I don't pretend that you're "wrong" for hating the movie or its writing. I'm also capable of plainly seeing what I consider to be the film's shortcomings and have no problem acknowledging them. Yet you and others continue to express this mindboggling need to to literally alter reality to support your own highly subjective opinions and utterly wild guesses. Why? Why is it so hard to simply take the film and the words of the filmmakers at face value and then just say "I agree with what Mark said here but I disagree with what he said here. I agree with this reviewer but not this reviewer." Why the seemingly desperate need to be "right" in how you perceived the film at all costs?

 

[Adolfo]

Detective Columbo Khev on "the case of the Missing the point that TLJ just plain sucks"..

 

[TaliBane]

The whole Gareth Edwards being replaced on RO is complete BS with no actual facts to back it up other than rumors.

Yes, the fact Disney paid Tony Gilroy $5 million to work on Rogue One (widely reported to have included writing, overseeing reshoots and postproduction/editing) for the six months leading up to release is complete BS with no actual facts to back it up. Fake news. As reliable as a pic in a sig.

 

[Khev]

Detective Columbo Khev on "the case of the Missing the point that TLJ just plain sucks"..

See when I think a movie sucks I say just that. The end. I don't going hunting for screenshots of Tom Hiddleston looking weird in interviews to "prove" that I'm right that Skull Island was lame. That would just be weird.

Nor do I call out Maulfan for missing the point that it sucked as if I alone were the final objective word on the subject. But I guess that's just a by product of me having a rational mind when it comes to how art is perceived and evaluated.

 

[YoNoSe]

Memba when Rogue One was being reshot to include anti-Trump scenes?


Internet TRUTH!

 

[a-dev]

He sent out a separate tweet mocking the one website that claimed his death came as a surprise to him. He also said this in an interview the very next day after the film hit theaters (not "weeks later"):



So if the "first" thing he said to Rian upon learning of his character's death was "can't you wait and do this in Episode iX"

That's a damn good point from Mark though.

 

[Adolfo]

See when I think a movie sucks I say just that. The end. I don't going hunting for screenshots of Tom Hiddleston looking weird in interviews to "prove" that I'm right that Skull Island was lame. That would just be weird.

Nor do I call out Maulfan for missing the point that it sucked as if I alone were the final objective word on the subject. But I guess that's just a by product of me having a rational mind when it comes to how art is perceived and evaluated.

But Skull Island was great and IMHO > TLJ

Memba when Rogue One was being reshot to include anti-Trump scenes?


Internet TRUTH!

Really. ..I gotta look that sheet up

 

[jye4ever]

Again I have to wonder how you can sit back and truly think that such logic is ample defense of your supposition. Hamill has discussed knowing his character's fate beforehand multiple times. Kylo Ren's dialogue foreshadowed his fate. Leia and Rey's dialogue openly acknowledged it. But you honestly expect me to believe that Disney orders alternate takes of each scene (from beginning to end of a movie) just in case they need to play hardball right before the film is released and off a main character who pisses them off? In your mind that's a likely and legitimate reality to you? Even after you acknowledged the absurdity of making up a "Gareth Edwards got fired" narrative that isn't based on any concrete evidence at all?

Just wow lol

Every character gets an alternate scene filmed just incase they misbehave at the press junkets

If that was the case Batffleck would’ve been killed by Superman lol

 

[Khev]

That's a damn good point from Mark though.

Yeah, but if you want to have Luke passing the torch so to speak then by definition he kind of needed to moved away from the center of the story. That'd be weird if during the Olympics opening ceremony somebody passed the torch to someone else but than sprinted past the new torch bearer to beat them to the cauldron.

And George himself told Mark way back in 1983 that the future trilogy was supposed to feature him "handing down the lightsaber to a new generation like Excalibur."

 

[JAWS]

See when I think a movie sucks I say just that. The end. I don't going hunting for screenshots of Tom Hiddleston looking weird in interviews to "prove" that I'm right that Skull Island was lame. That would just be weird.

Nor do I call out Maulfan for missing the point that it sucked as if I alone were the final objective word on the subject. But I guess that's just a by product of me having a rational mind when it comes to how art is perceived and evaluated.

This is all true.. Its fun to debate but I don't get the constant lambasting of the film.. I enjoy having a debate with friends but feel no need to "Prove" Khev or Jye are wrong about TLJ.. I know they are and that is good enough for me. :LOL

Seriously though.. I tend not to dump too hard on a film but this was SW and it was more then just another movie.. Since Khev and Jye liked it and even liked things I did not like I found it fun and interesting to debate..

I also don't continue to defend a film I really like.. If anything I care even less if I am in the minority or majority for a film a love.. If someone wanted to diss on JAWS, ROTLA, OT SW, I could care less. I ight discuss it with them but I really don't care enough to defend it none stop..


Basically it just comes down to the fact that I know I am right


Its all opinions.. Shocked this thread is still going strong.

 

[TaliBane]

Yep its mostly "here's a pic of surprised Hamill that proves he didn't know his character died" type nonsense.

Yes, and the fact that him denying it (him not knowing Luke died) on Twitter occurred just hours after he Tweeted his apology for being honest (re: his feelings toward TLJ) isn't significant to you?

That fact alone makes me suspicious. Hamill did a complete 180 - from clearly being truthful to a stance that Disney MUST have played some role in. There is no other reason he would have done this sudden turnaround after months of speaking form the heart about his feelings toward TLJ - to "I'm sorry" just a week after release.

I believe that Gareth said that Weiz or Gilroy suggested that they add something with Vader at the end but Gareth ended up shooting (and appearing in) the sequence so he was hardly "fired." Yes Kennedy brought in Gilroy (the same guy who helped Gareth shoot extra scenes for Godzilla) and if Gareth had thrown a **** fit then like Lord and Miller he *would* have been fired but he didn't. He played ball with the rest of the team and helped edit the final film, did ALL of the behind the scenes interviews on the blu-ray, continued work into TLJ, etc.

Lord and Miller were fired half way into production of Solo. Gareth had long completed shooting by the time Gilroy's role was expanded. It's two totally different scenarios.

 

[Khev]

Memba when Rogue One was being reshot to include anti-Trump scenes?


Internet TRUTH!

Thankfully all that talk occurred while I was on pre-movie spoiler lockdown.

But Skull Island was great and IMHO > TLJ

Well all right to each his own then.

Just wow lol

Every character gets an alternate scene filmed just incase they misbehave at the press junkets

If that was the case Batffleck would’ve been killed by Superman lol

Yep the truth comes out, lol. Instead of bringing in Gilroy to pinch hit a few key sequences parallel to Edwards' work in order to make a better movie the *real* reason they gave some scenes to Gilroy was because Gareth let slip that he hated The Jungle Book.

 

[Khev]

This is all true.. Its fun to debate but I don't get the constant lambasting of the film.. I enjoy having a debate with friends but feel no need to "Prove" Khev or Jye are wrong about TLJ.. I know they are and that is good enough for me. :LOL

And I know that deep down you're here because you squealed with delight when Finn and Rose were trashing the speeders of the evil rich people and that's good enough for me.

Seriously though.. I tend not to dump too hard on a film but this was SW and it was more then just another movie.. Since Khev and Jye liked it and even liked things I did not like I found it fun and interesting to debate..

I also don't continue to defend a film I really like.. If anything I care even less if I am in the minority or majority for a film a love.. If someone wanted to diss on JAWS, ROTLA, OT SW, I could care less. I ight discuss it with them but I really don't care enough to defend it none stop..

Well yes, I would say I feel the same way. Pretty much everybody hated Alien: Covenant and the bashing of that film went on for a long time after I weighed in on what I liked about it. But as you say this is SW and so the typical rules rarely apply.

Its all opinions.. Shocked this thread is still going strong.

Oh come on now RO discussion is still on the front page so TLJ is just getting warmed up.

 

[crows]

See when I think a movie sucks I say just that. The end. I don't going hunting for screenshots of Tom Hiddleston looking weird in interviews to "prove" that I'm right that Skull Island was lame. That would just be weird.

Nor do I call out Maulfan for missing the point that it sucked as if I alone were the final objective word on the subject. But I guess that's just a by product of me having a rational mind when it comes to how art is perceived and evaluated.

You and jyerino already discussed how the fact that star wars is so big, so massive, so monumental that no amount of bad reviews or user scores can hurt the biggest franchise of all time, right?

Well it is expected for such a massive and monumental movie to have such passionate haters right?
Goes hand in hand i think. No other movie has such passionate opinions
For every extreme over the top lover of this movie like u guys, there will be equal passionate dislike


No other movie has this much butt kissing either.

Look at jumanji. A better received movie than this one, still top 5 in box office,no one cares to talk about it.
No passion.

 

[Adolfo]

This is all true.. Its fun to debate but I don't get the constant lambasting of the film.. I enjoy having a debate with friends but feel no need to "Prove" Khev or Jye are wrong about TLJ.. I know they are and that is good enough for me. :LOL

Seriously though.. I tend not to dump too hard on a film but this was SW and it was more then just another movie.. Since Khev and Jye liked it and even liked things I did not like I found it fun and interesting to debate..

I also don't continue to defend a film I really like.. If anything I care even less if I am in the minority or majority for a film a love.. If someone wanted to diss on JAWS, ROTLA, OT SW, I could care less. I ight discuss it with them but I really don't care enough to defend it none stop..


Basically it just comes down to the fact that I know I am right


Its all opinions.. Shocked this thread is still going strong.

Jaws you're now officially a tuna..lol ..shocked that this thread is still going strong?...for Christ sakes man its Star Wars...and no body ***ks or messes with that sheet and expects the hoopla to just go away like some Jedi on a rock. ..mm mm hmmpht!..

 

[Adolfo]

You and jyerino already discussed how the fact that star wars is so big, so massive, so monumental that no amount of bad reviews or user scores can hurt the biggest franchise of all time, right?

Well it is expected for such a massive and monumental movie to have such passionate haters right?
Goes hand in hand i think. No other movie has such passionate opinions
For every extreme over the top lover of this movie like u guys, there will be equal passionate dislike


No other movie has this much butt kissing either.

Look at jumanji. A better received movie than this one, still top 5 in box office,no one cares to talk about it.
No passion.

Good great films do not get argued about too long usually,...but TLJ...I mean hey...legitimate. ..

 

[Khev]

You and jyerino already discussed how the fact that star wars is so big, so massive, so monumental that no amount of bad reviews or user scores can hurt the biggest franchise of all time, right?

Well it is expected for such a massive and monumental movie to have such passionate haters right?
Goes hand in hand i think. No other movie has such passionate opinions
For every extreme over the top lover of this movie like u guys, there will be equal passionate dislike

Of course. Just ask me what I think of Jake Lloyd or Kid Fett and I'll go off just as much or worse as any TLJ hater. That's not the point. People can obviously love or hate these films as much as they want and I agree that with SW everything is taken to the nth degree. However I can easily blast TPM or AOTC until I'm blue in the fact without criticizing them for doing things that I gave a pass to in the OT or having to camp out on facial expressions by McGregor or Lloyd to prove that I'm objectively right.

I'm also capable of understanding why people who enjoy those movies like them without having to write them off as sucking up every piece of crap that George threw at them. I know that some people just enjoyed the world building aspects of the PT, or Darth Maul, McGregor's performance in all three films, etc. It doesn't change my opinion obviously but I am capable of sitting back and realizing that not everyone wants the same things that I do from their entertainment. I know that all films are subjective but I don't think it's a huge stretch to say that for the most part we can mostly objectively agree that the shortcomings of each trilogy are:

OT: Some dated visuals and a rushed/uninspired wrap-up in ROTJ
PT: Bad dialogue/poor delivery of said dialogue/over-reliance on CGI
ST: Too vague in how the events connect to where things left off in ROTJ/most new characters not nearly as iconic as those in the other films

I might be wrong but I feel like most of us would find common ground in the above statements and then it mostly comes down to how big a deal breaker each of those are and how important some of the other shortcomings are that I didn't mention (I know that some people think that the OT had poor writing and acting, but those are few and far between so I didn't list that as a "shortcoming" per se.) Even the alleged "SJW" stuff in the ST has enough divide that I didn't list it as a universal shortcoming.

Look at jumanji. A better received movie than this one, still top 5 in box office,no one cares to talk about it.
No passion.

Lol, very true.

 

[loki2371]

He sent out a separate tweet mocking the one website that claimed his death came as a surprise to him. He also said this in an interview the very next day after the film hit theaters (not "weeks later"):

TLJ was released on 12/15 (Preview 12/14, the Premier was 12/9. His tweet recanting his feelings from all the interviews came on 12/26.

"I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public. Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one!"
5:32 PM - Dec 26, 2017

So if the "first" thing he said to Rian upon learning of his character's death was "can't you wait and do this in Episode iX" then that literally could not have been a conversation that happened after the movie premiered. He obviously knew early enough during the filming/before filming that he had ample time to throw in his two cents about delaying the death. Interestingly enough Hamill did NOT claim to say "I hate this, what a lame death" he only requested that it be moved out an extra episode.

In multiple interviews he said he did voice his opinion to Johnson on numerous occasions, but his opinion didn't matter. Remember "This is not my Luke Skywalker" so he called him Jake Skywalker instead.

Again I have to wonder how you can sit back and truly think that such logic is ample defense of your supposition. Hamill has discussed knowing his character's fate beforehand multiple times. Kylo Ren's dialogue foreshadowed his fate. Leia and Rey's dialogue openly acknowledged it. But you honestly expect me to believe that Disney orders alternate takes of each scene (from beginning to end of a movie) just in case they need to play hardball right before the film is released and off a main character who pisses them off? In your mind that's a likely and legitimate reality to you? Even after you acknowledged the absurdity of making up a "Gareth Edwards got fired" narrative that isn't based on any concrete evidence at all?

I guess I just don't "get" the need to blindly cling to a narrative that seemingly overlaps with my own opinions despite any level of reason or common sense. Hell I might as well start a narrative that Daisy looked happy after the premiere because she just learned for the first time that her character survived and that her last scene with Leia was just an "alternate take" of her death scene that they chose instead. Nevermind there being no evidence *whatsoever* that would actually support such a bizarre scenario.

I never said they reshot those scenes. Again, you do understand there are times when a director will shoot the same scene with different dialogue, multiple angles, etc. so they have choices in post when editing the movie to better fit the narrative/story. That way they don't need reshoots if a scene doesn't work. And I still don't remember Hamill saying he new of Luke's death. And your arguing with yourself, as I said It wouldn't surprise me if it happened that way (Hamill not knowing he died).

Fact from fiction. The "fiction" being scenes that we know were shot and edited into the movie, words that we know the director and actor said, but the "fact" is a guess as to what Hamill was thinking during a bewildered look on his face. Or the "fact" that it's a "terrible written movie." Almost every sentence in your post speaks to the absurd level of altered reality that so many of the most vocal haters of this film cling to.

Like most critics and many fans I really liked the film and found it to be very well written. I recognize that that is my opinion. I don't pretend that it isn't. I don't pretend that you're "wrong" for hating the movie or its writing. I'm also capable of plainly seeing what I consider to be the film's shortcomings and have no problem acknowledging them. Yet you and others continue to express this mindboggling need to to literally alter reality to support your own highly subjective opinions and utterly wild guesses. Why? Why is it so hard to simply take the film and the words of the filmmakers at face value and then just say "I agree with what Mark said here but I disagree with what he said here. I agree with this reviewer but not this reviewer." Why the seemingly desperate need to be "right" in how you perceived the film at all costs?

I didn't alter any reality. I didn't make any wild guesses. I'm simply going by comments and events in the media, and saying I believe in possible multiple truths, not absolutes.. You yourself like to reiterate who you agree with and who you don't. You seem to have gotten pretty annoyed by my comments. Changing your opinion comment was a joke wink1

And like I said Hollywood is filled with huge ego's who never admit mistakes or being wrong. Kennedy/Johnson will never come out and apologize to the fans that they made bad decisions. They just say they took risks, but don't admit they were not the right risks.

I guess in the history books it will go down with Trump being one of the greatest Presidents ever. Because, after all, he fully believes it as do many of his staff members. Long Live Trump...

 

[Chakor]

And like I said the entire world is filled with huge ego's who never admit mistakes or being wrong.

FTFY.