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Frank, meet Harry Palmer.Five Finger Frank
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)
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jye4ever
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Hans Landa? Sherriff of Nottingham? Are they joking?
Empire sucks. They hire kids to make tons of lists (i.e. click bait).
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I haven't heard anyone complain that TLJ was "too upbeat", or that the portrayal of Luke was "too depressing". Sounds like another Straw Man attempting to legitimize a crap film. The tone of TLJ was absurd and the humor fell flat. That's different. Likewise, the problem wasn't that Luke is "depressing". Luke was too weak. The problem with Disney taking over the X-Men is their Moralism. Logan is an amoral character, with compassion. He slaughters people, not because it's the "right thing to do", but because he wants them dead. How do you think Disney will handle that? If Kathleen Kennedy were involved, Logan's "misbehavior" will be portrayed as Toxic Masculinity. You'll have female teenagers explaining life lessons to a man who's lived for over 200 years. Marvel Studios isn't quite as ridiculous with the ideological nonsense. There's a greater chance that the X-Men films will be formulaic to the point of tedium.
Likely true.
Kathleen and her posse would never write, nor understand, a character like The Hound from Game of Thrones.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Yup Poe was such a toxic male that Holdo sacrificed her life so that white male Poe could become the leader.
But yeah sure keep whining about Toxic Masculinity the 2018 replacement word for 2017 SJW.
But yeah sure keep whining about Toxic Masculinity the 2018 replacement word for 2017 SJW.
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I read an article that Kathleen Kennedy recently interviewed the director of The Handmade's Tale series... likely for the upcoming Star Wars television series.
According to the director, Kennedy was watching Margret Atwood's feminist snooze-fest and thought, "Perfect! This is the Star Wars director we need!" Yet people who like TLJ believe that ideological grievances with the film are nonsense. They're just unfamiliar with third wave feminism, unaware of how chauvinistic the philosophy is.
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No, Poe's Toxic Masculinity was his self-sufficiency and willingness to rush toward violence, while denying a woman her agency as an authority figure. It wasn't subtle. Every male character in the film was pre-occupied with their own self-image in wanting to be awesome: Luke, Poe, Finn, Kylo... and women were condescending saviors, whose role was to remind men that virtue is about compassion.
If you're not concerned that ideologues are promoting authoritarianism in the name of equality, that makes you weak. You can be weak if you want to, but it is what it is.
Okay here we go. 
See whenever I see people say "TLJ crapped on SW" or "crapped on the lore" all I hear is "TLJ crapped on Endor dance parties, teddy bears, and my favorite heroes who were supposed to live happily ever after." A lot of you *claim* that ESB is your favorite SW movie but it's clear that that isn't what you ever want out of SW again. What you really want is just more ROTJ. And by "you" I may mean you personally Bravomite or I may not. You judge. But it definitely applies to a *lot* of TLJ naysayers.
What crazy rule exists that says that when a hero stops himself mid-murderous rampage and then tosses away his lightsaber that suddenly he's this perfected being of light that is immune to any further temptation, inadequacy, failure, depression, etc.? That's some goofy arbitrary limitation that apparently *only* applies to Star Wars. When Professor X slaughters his entire school of students? Oh that's transcendent art. A real evolution of the genre. But if Luke Skywalker even *thinks* about killing *one* student who is on a path of galaxy wide destruction? Well crap that just breaks the Saga. Funny I don't recall any notmyprofessor hashtags or Jake Xavier memes when Logan was in theaters.
TLJ has simply exposed the level of BS inherent in so many who claim that they hate the fact that Disney is making these movies when the fact of the matter is that most naysayers apparently want SW to be nothing but the MOST Disney-fied of all fairy tales. Remember Beauty and the Beast when he came back to life, kissed Belle, all the spells wore off and the castle was all shining as people lived "happily ever after" in cartoon heaven-on-earth fantasy? Yeah that's clearly what a number of people want out of SW. Oh they'll claim that they don't want things to be stagnant but that isn't really the case. They'll claim that they want to see development and/or conflict but at the *most* all they want is the pseudo-challenges experienced by your average MCU hero.
Like Tony Stark in Iron Man 2. Where Disney tried to adapt "Demon in a Bottle," one of the most celebrated of IM tales...but without actually making Tony an alcoholic. Can't do anything that would make him a "loser." So he has this honorable affliction where the suit is merely infecting his blood or skin which then gives him the *appearance* of having the flaw of alcoholism...but not the flaw itself. Oh he had a little too much to drink at *one* party. Whoopety do.
And here's the thing (and I'm so not directing any of this directly at you Bravomite) if certain people want that out of SW that's fine. Clearly we got an entire film where everybody was a shining star of morality and pro-active righteousness (even the previously gray scoundrels like Han and Lando) in Return of the Jedi. And that's fine if that's singular format that you want all SW films to take with respect to story and characters from here on out. I'm sure Disney will make plenty of those types of movies for you eventually and you can embrace them while those of us who like our stories with flawed and relatable heroes can embrace films like RO and TLJ.
"Wait Khev we actually liked RO it's just TLJ that sucked." Eh, now I believe that the only reason most TLJ naysayers liked RO is because they didn't have any preconceived notions about how Jyn and Cassian and everyone should be. If Jyn appeared in a previous film where she did something heroic at the end then she'd need to be perfect from that moment on and the second she hit a rebel in the face with a shovel everyone would have immediately disowned her. Because that's just how irrational and flaky a good portion of the fanbase is when it comes to these films.
There have been countless tales about heroes or main characters who ascend to the top of their field only to come crashing all the way back down in order to set the stage for an epic comeback. "Why didn't Rocky throw the towel sooner??? He forsook Apollo!! He literally got him killed! #notmybalboa" " Why the **** is Aragorn off sitting in a bar while the world goes to pot? 'Strider?' What's that bull****? Osgiliath and countless strongholds are falling while he mopes around by himself instead of marching into the halls of Gondor and claiming his crown!!" When you apply the complaints against Luke to any other hero in any other genre the absurdity just gets all the more exposed. "Aragorn spilled Eowen's nasty soup on his beard! I'm gonna go make memes!" smh
The truth is Rian Johnson actually dared to treat Luke Skywalker like a genuine character again. He isn't some force of nature in the background, he isn't a cartoonized embodiment of wish fulfillment fantasy (that people ironically scream bloody murder about when manifested in other characters like Rey,) he's a character with an actual arc who starts out lower than he's ever been before ultimately ascending higher than he's ever been. And that's simply good story-telling. I get it if people just want to escape and have AT-AT's and Sith Lords be stand-ins for whatever troubles you're facing in life. And that the extent of SW being an inspiring tale goes no further than watching things blow up so that you can either enjoy the pretty explosions or at most tackle your problems at home "just like Luke attacked that AT-AT." But what if Luke *himself* actually had to tackle your *real* problems at home? I'm not talking lightsabers and murder but simply the act of making a critical error that permanently estranges a close family member. Or handling hopelessness or depression. Those things just bring this epic space fantasy all the more down to real, honest, much more emotionally tangible themes.
I've literally read about amputee military veterans coping with losing a limb because there's a certain "coolness" to having a prosthetic hand or something because it's so ingrained in our consciousness after it happened to Luke Skywalker. Now Luke has gone several steps further by becoming an "emotional amputee" of sorts. And like his reaction to losing a hand where at first he gave up, he ultimately pulled himself up by his bootstraps and faced life head on until the very end. None of that is negated by how he faltered along the way, however ugly (though lovably so) it might have been during that process. In fact in the end it's all enhanced by his shortcomings and failings. He got to prove once and for all that his victory in ROTJ wasn't a fluke. That no matter what gets thrown at him, no matter who fails him and no matter who comes at him, whether it be friends, family, or even *himself,* that he's never ever fully down for the count and in the end will always be the hero that we can respect and admire.
See whenever I see people say "TLJ crapped on SW" or "crapped on the lore" all I hear is "TLJ crapped on Endor dance parties, teddy bears, and my favorite heroes who were supposed to live happily ever after." A lot of you *claim* that ESB is your favorite SW movie but it's clear that that isn't what you ever want out of SW again. What you really want is just more ROTJ. And by "you" I may mean you personally Bravomite or I may not. You judge.
But it definitely applies to a *lot* of TLJ naysayers.What crazy rule exists that says that when a hero stops himself mid-murderous rampage and then tosses away his lightsaber that suddenly he's this perfected being of light that is immune to any further temptation, inadequacy, failure, depression, etc.? That's some goofy arbitrary limitation that apparently *only* applies to Star Wars. When Professor X slaughters his entire school of students? Oh that's transcendent art. A real evolution of the genre. But if Luke Skywalker even *thinks* about killing *one* student who is on a path of galaxy wide destruction? Well crap that just breaks the Saga. Funny I don't recall any notmyprofessor hashtags or Jake Xavier memes when Logan was in theaters.
TLJ has simply exposed the level of BS inherent in so many who claim that they hate the fact that Disney is making these movies when the fact of the matter is that most naysayers apparently want SW to be nothing but the MOST Disney-fied of all fairy tales. Remember Beauty and the Beast when he came back to life, kissed Belle, all the spells wore off and the castle was all shining as people lived "happily ever after" in cartoon heaven-on-earth fantasy? Yeah that's clearly what a number of people want out of SW. Oh they'll claim that they don't want things to be stagnant but that isn't really the case. They'll claim that they want to see development and/or conflict but at the *most* all they want is the pseudo-challenges experienced by your average MCU hero.
Like Tony Stark in Iron Man 2. Where Disney tried to adapt "Demon in a Bottle," one of the most celebrated of IM tales...but without actually making Tony an alcoholic. Can't do anything that would make him a "loser." So he has this honorable affliction where the suit is merely infecting his blood or skin which then gives him the *appearance* of having the flaw of alcoholism...but not the flaw itself. Oh he had a little too much to drink at *one* party. Whoopety do.
And here's the thing (and I'm so not directing any of this directly at you Bravomite) if certain people want that out of SW that's fine. Clearly we got an entire film where everybody was a shining star of morality and pro-active righteousness (even the previously gray scoundrels like Han and Lando) in Return of the Jedi. And that's fine if that's singular format that you want all SW films to take with respect to story and characters from here on out. I'm sure Disney will make plenty of those types of movies for you eventually and you can embrace them while those of us who like our stories with flawed and relatable heroes can embrace films like RO and TLJ.
"Wait Khev we actually liked RO it's just TLJ that sucked." Eh, now I believe that the only reason most TLJ naysayers liked RO is because they didn't have any preconceived notions about how Jyn and Cassian and everyone should be. If Jyn appeared in a previous film where she did something heroic at the end then she'd need to be perfect from that moment on and the second she hit a rebel in the face with a shovel everyone would have immediately disowned her. Because that's just how irrational and flaky a good portion of the fanbase is when it comes to these films.
There have been countless tales about heroes or main characters who ascend to the top of their field only to come crashing all the way back down in order to set the stage for an epic comeback. "Why didn't Rocky throw the towel sooner??? He forsook Apollo!! He literally got him killed! #notmybalboa" " Why the **** is Aragorn off sitting in a bar while the world goes to pot? 'Strider?' What's that bull****? Osgiliath and countless strongholds are falling while he mopes around by himself instead of marching into the halls of Gondor and claiming his crown!!" When you apply the complaints against Luke to any other hero in any other genre the absurdity just gets all the more exposed. "Aragorn spilled Eowen's nasty soup on his beard! I'm gonna go make memes!" smh
The truth is Rian Johnson actually dared to treat Luke Skywalker like a genuine character again. He isn't some force of nature in the background, he isn't a cartoonized embodiment of wish fulfillment fantasy (that people ironically scream bloody murder about when manifested in other characters like Rey,) he's a character with an actual arc who starts out lower than he's ever been before ultimately ascending higher than he's ever been. And that's simply good story-telling. I get it if people just want to escape and have AT-AT's and Sith Lords be stand-ins for whatever troubles you're facing in life. And that the extent of SW being an inspiring tale goes no further than watching things blow up so that you can either enjoy the pretty explosions or at most tackle your problems at home "just like Luke attacked that AT-AT." But what if Luke *himself* actually had to tackle your *real* problems at home? I'm not talking lightsabers and murder but simply the act of making a critical error that permanently estranges a close family member. Or handling hopelessness or depression. Those things just bring this epic space fantasy all the more down to real, honest, much more emotionally tangible themes.
I've literally read about amputee military veterans coping with losing a limb because there's a certain "coolness" to having a prosthetic hand or something because it's so ingrained in our consciousness after it happened to Luke Skywalker. Now Luke has gone several steps further by becoming an "emotional amputee" of sorts. And like his reaction to losing a hand where at first he gave up, he ultimately pulled himself up by his bootstraps and faced life head on until the very end. None of that is negated by how he faltered along the way, however ugly (though lovably so) it might have been during that process. In fact in the end it's all enhanced by his shortcomings and failings. He got to prove once and for all that his victory in ROTJ wasn't a fluke. That no matter what gets thrown at him, no matter who fails him and no matter who comes at him, whether it be friends, family, or even *himself,* that he's never ever fully down for the count and in the end will always be the hero that we can respect and admire.
Last edited:
jye4ever
Broke and happy
No, Poe's Toxic Masculinity was his self-sufficiency and willingness to rush toward violence, while denying a woman her agency as an authority figure. It wasn't subtle. Every male character in the film was pre-occupied with their own self-image in wanting to be awesome: Luke, Poe, Finn, Kylo... and women were condescending saviors, whose role was to remind men that virtue is about compassion.
If you're not concerned that ideologues are promoting authoritarianism in the name of equality, that makes you weak. You can be weak if you want to, but it is what it is.
You know maybe you’re right I am weak.
I’m thinking of joining your crusade brother I want my masculinity to be respected and not labeled as toxic.
What is your plan? How do we stop this imminent threat against our lives!
I say just for starters effective immediately all women are required to walk on all fours like a dog and that goes for our daughters, sisters and mothers too.
Yes yes I like that.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Okay here we go.
See whenever I see people say "TLJ crapped on SW" or "crapped on the lore" all I hear is "TLJ crapped on Endor dance parties, teddy bears, and my favorite heroes who were supposed to live happily ever after." A lot of you *claim* that ESB is your favorite SW movie but it's clear that that isn't what you ever want out of SW again. What you really want is just more ROTJ. And by "you" I may mean you personally Bravomite or I may not. You judge.
What crazy rule exists that says that when a hero stops himself mid-murderous rampage and then tosses away his lightsaber that suddenly he's this perfected being of light that is immune to any further temptation, inadequacy, failure, depression, etc.? That's some goofy arbitrary limitation that apparently *only* applies to Star Wars. When Professor X slaughters his entire school of students? Oh that's transcendent art. A real evolution of the genre. But if Luke Skywalker even *thinks* about killing *one* student who is on a path of galaxy wide destruction? Well crap that just breaks the Saga. Funny I don't recall any notmyprofessor hashtags or Jake Xavier memes when Logan was in theaters.
TLJ has simply exposed the level of BS inherent in so many who claim that they hate the fact that Disney is making these movies when the fact of the matter is that most naysayers apparently want SW to be nothing but the MOST Disney-fied of all fairy tales. Remember Beauty and the Beast when he came back to life, kissed Belle, all the spells wore off and the castle was all shining as people lived "happily ever after" in cartoon heaven-on-earth fantasy? Yeah that's clearly what a number of people want out of SW. Oh they'll claim that they don't want things to be stagnant but that isn't really the case. They'll claim that they want to see development and/or conflict but at the *most* all they want is the pseudo-challenges experienced by your average MCU hero.
Like Tony Stark in Iron Man 2. Where Disney tried to adapt "Demon in a Bottle," one of the most celebrated of IM tales...but without actually making Tony an alcoholic. Can't do anything that would make him a "loser." So he has this honorable affliction where the suit is merely infecting his blood or skin which then gives him the *appearance* of having the flaw of alcoholism...but not the flaw itself. Oh he had a little too much to drink at *one* party. Whoopety do.
And here's the thing (and I'm so not directing any of this directly at you Bravomite) if certain people want that out of SW that's fine. Clearly we got an entire film where everybody was a shining star of morality and pro-active righteousness (even the previously gray scoundrels like Han and Lando) in Return of the Jedi. And that's fine if that's singular format that you want all SW films to take with respect to story and characters from here on out. I'm sure Disney will make plenty of those types of movies for you eventually and you can embrace them while those of us who like our stories with flawed and relatable heroes can embrace films like RO and TLJ.
"Wait Khev we actually liked RO it's just TLJ that sucked." Eh, now I believe that the only reason most TLJ naysayers liked RO is because they didn't have any preconceived notions about how Jyn and Cassian and everyone should be. If Jyn appeared in a previous film where she did something heroic at the end then she'd need to be perfect from that moment on and the second she hit a rebel in the face with a shovel everyone would have immediately disowned her. Because that's just how irrational and flaky a good portion of the fanbase is when it comes to these films.
There have been countless tales about heroes or main characters who ascend to the top of their field only to come crashing all the way back down in order to set the stage for an epic comeback. "Why didn't Rocky throw the towel sooner??? He forsook Apollo!! He literally got him killed! #notmybalboa" " Why the **** is Aragorn off sitting in a bar while the world goes to pot? 'Strider?' What's that bull****? Osgiliath and countless strongholds are falling while he mopes around by himself instead of marching into the halls of Gondor and claiming his crown!!" When you apply the complaints against Luke to any other hero in any other genre the absurdity just gets all the more exposed. "Aragorn spilled Eowen's nasty soup on his beard! I'm gonna go make memes!" smh
The truth is Rian Johnson actually dared to treat Luke Skywalker like a genuine character again. He isn't some force of nature in the background, he isn't a cartoonized embodiment of wish fulfillment fantasy (that people ironically scream bloody murder about when manifested in other characters like Rey,) he's a character with an actual arc who starts out lower than he's ever been before ultimately ascending higher than he's ever been. And that's simply good story-telling. I get it if people just want to escape and have AT-AT's and Sith Lords be stand-ins for whatever troubles you're facing in life. And that the extent of SW being an inspiring tale goes no further than watching things blow up so that you can either enjoy the pretty explosions or at most tackle your problems at home "just like Luke attacked that AT-AT." But what if Luke *himself* actually had to tackle your *real* problems at home? I'm not talking lightsabers and murder but simply the act of making a critical error that permanently estranges a close family member. Or handling hopelessness or depression. Those things just bring this epic space fantasy all the more down to real, honest, much more emotionally tangible themes.
I've literally read about amputee military veterans coping with losing a limb because there's a certain "coolness" to having a prosthetic hand or something because it's so ingrained in our consciousness after it happened to Luke Skywalker. Now Luke has gone several steps further by becoming an "emotional amputee" of sorts. And like his reaction to losing a hand where at first he gave up, he ultimately pulled himself up by his bootstraps and faced life head on until the very end. None of that is negated by how he faltered along the way, however ugly (though lovably so) it might have been during that process. In fact in the end it's all enhanced by his shortcomings and failings. He got to prove once and for all that his victory in ROTJ wasn't a fluke. That no matter what gets thrown at him. That no matter who fails him and no matter who comes at him, whether it be friends, family, or even *himself,* that he's never ever fully down for the count and in the end will always be the hero that we can respect and admire.
Sorry Khev but Kennedy’s war against Toxic Masculinity ruins your beautiful post, next.
lolz
jye4ever
Broke and happy
lolz
The irony is that I see that TLJ had some of the themes and arcs from Logan lol
Young girl goes to reluctant hero who sacrifices himself at the end so that young girl savior can escape.
Professor Yoda X even encourages Luke-Logan to help the young girl.
Logan/Luke were even heroic legends.
The irony is that I see that TLJ stole some of the themes and arcs from Logan lol
Young girl goes to reluctant hero who sacrifices himself at the end so that young girl savior can escape.
Professor Yoda X even encourages Luke-Logan to help the young girl.
Yep and if Fox had bought SW from Disney after TFA and released *this exact same movie* so many people here *coughSNIKTcough* would be cheering and celebrating that Fox and their auteur filmmaking crew had the balls to take the reigns from Disney and give us *real* transcendent characters and conflicts. But in the end even when he gets the movie he claimed to want he simply rolls over and shows his belly the moment the LFL logo appears on screen, lol.
Captain Clown
King of the Wicker People
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^^^^
I think the TLJ seacow should represent 2018 Femme Power. We need hats and t-shirts, stat!
Slogans like:
Drink from the teat
If its good enough for Master Luke...
I think the TLJ seacow should represent 2018 Femme Power. We need hats and t-shirts, stat!
Slogans like:
Drink from the teat
If its good enough for Master Luke...
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Yup just epic your post is lol
muh Logan
I mean Luke was even carrying around the burden of his teachings while Logan was literally carrying around his in the form of a crippled Professor.
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They could use that once in a while...you n Khev I would make walk on your hands only
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OMG...shirts with that on them are going as Christmas gifts..perfect
loki2371
Super Freak
Poe isn't the leader. Last I remember was Leia back in charge and staring blankly at a pile of rocks. Meanwhile mere hours earlier she was defying death in space by surrounding herself in a force bubble (?) and then using the force to fly through space ultimately rescuing herself. But we are then to believe lifting a few rocks to save what was left of the resistance were beyond her abilities, so instead Rey came to their rescue. SO NO, Poe is not in charge, but he is now best buds with Rey.... ??? **** me.... So much of this **** makes no sense....
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