Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

It's the Pope's birthday today. I think he watched TLJ too :

"Be always joyful, even when things don't go as we wish they would," the pope said during the Angelus prayer.
 
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Unfortunately the OT era is no more. We have 40 years of fans who relate to Han, Luke and Leia. Now that they’re the age of retirement, Disney has their own idea of how to retire these heroes. I think people have trouble with this idea. Now that we have a new Han, Luke and Leia being Rey, Finn and Poe, it’s difficult to grasp. Unfortunately, the ST is tailored to a new generation where kids and teens will grasp with the OT and PT being relics. It’s sad but true. The new Star Tours has nothing but ST elements and while I was sad that this was done, I came to the realization that my Star Wars that I grew up with(I’m 31) is no longer there. I am accepting that this is a new direction. I liked the film a lot but if you can realize the baton has to be passed, you’ll be more accepting and enjoy. Very difficult to come to terms but times are changing and they can’t keep our original heroes as heroes anymore. War heroes are a thing of the past, while written in books to commemorate them and should always be honored, they will always be heroes in our eyes but if seen today are just old people. Similar to Han, Luke and Leia, they will not have the same impact or role they had in the OT in the now ST. Sad but true.

Yeah, I agree. There are aspects of getting old that suck. I can't eat junk food anymore without getting fat. Hangovers are a thousand times worse. Sometimes when it rains, every serious injury I've ever had starts to ache simultaneously.

Still, I feel as though there are some lines that time shouldn't cross. Nothing is sacred, but can't we at least try to create a culture that isn't entirely revolving around children? Why do we need to take IP that people from my generation grew up with, specifically for the sake of brand recognition, then market it to kids who (by many accounts on this site) couldn't care less about the original material? From the sounds of it, many people seem to think the movie could have been about PJ Masks, and kids would have been just as into it.

So yeah, I think it sucks that while kids couldn't care less about the OT, there isn't a single facet of our culture appealing to an adult demographic, where we can EVOLVE intellectual property as a mythology that inspired an entire generation.
 
I like how a lot of you are ******** on Johnson for his treatment of Luke when that was really all JJ. JJ started the ball rolling when he decided that Luke was a coward who ran away from the fight after his failure with Ben Solo and then decided to spend the rest of his life on a secluded island.

If anything Rian actually gave Luke a redemption arc by making him a man with hope again by the end of TLJ.

And with so many here whining about how the movie doesn't fit their own fanfiction, they really missed some truly great moments in the film that even GL himself will be proud of. Remember the twin suns scene before Luke became one with the Force? That was a beautiful scene. Luke essentially ended the journey where he started back in ANH. The symmetry is just beautiful. The rebellion is reborn, the war has just started and there will be a new generation of Jedi.

Also everyone is talking about how Rey beat Luke when it was the other way around. He was beating Rey, dodging and blocking every hits by her and even took her staff away until Rey decided to used a lightsaber. Heck, he didn't even fall actually stopping himself with the Force. He did not continue the fight because Rey did not continue the fight. He just ripped off the roof of the hut just a few seconds earlier and you guys really think Rey bested Luke? Luke did not want to fight Rey because it was pointless.

TLJ actually incorporated a lot of elements from the EU but in their blind rage no one seem to have caught that.
 
I know this and it makes me sad. My point was i think the backlash will still be more intense than they think.

No reason to be sad you really just need to look at the bigger picture at play here.

Some will quickly be fooled into thinking Disney Wars is in trouble because TLJ had a smaller opening weekend and will gross less than TFA.

Don’t be.

I mean great if that makes you happy more power to you but the reality is that Disney is going to cultivate SW into a scenario not unlike big banks.

SW will be too big to ever fail even with a decreasing profit level.
 
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I like how a lot of you are ******** on Johnson for his treatment of Luke when that was really all JJ. JJ started the ball rolling when he decided that Luke was a coward who ran away from the fight after his failure with Ben Solo and then decided to spend the rest of his life on a secluded island.

If anything Rian actually gave Luke a redemption arc by making him a man with hope again by the end of TLJ.

I agree with much of the criticism TLJ is getting but I also don't put it all on Johnson's shoulders given what JJ and whoever wrote TFA provided him to work with. The worst decisions started there.
 
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Does Luke sacrifice himself at the end for the sake of maybe a dozen rebels? After the battle, at the time Luke shows up, there seems to be very few rebels left, maybe ten who Rey rescues to get into the Falcon at the end.

And the FO goes to ENORMOUS trouble - lots of ATATs and the big cannon thing - simply to destroy a few dozen rebels before the battle? I get that Leia is there, but I didn't understand why they'd bother with so few left.

Yeah you could even argue it was pointless. With Rey, r2 and chewie on the falcon the resistance in crait could have died and the falcon crew could have built it again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If Luke wanted to die alone on the island and didn't want anything to do with the Resistance, the First Order, the Jedi or the the Sith, then how come he made a super secret puzzle map for people to put the pieces together to find him??

Did he really make the map? It was never explicitly stated that Luke made the map. I remember JJ explained that the map has always been in R2-D2 when he hack into the imperial archives and Luke somehow must have stumble upon it over the years and for some reason decided to choose that as his place of exile.
 
I like how a lot of you are ******** on Johnson for his treatment of Luke when that was really all JJ. JJ started the ball rolling when he decided that Luke was a coward who ran away from the fight after his failure with Ben Solo and then decided to spend the rest of his life on a secluded island.

If anything Rian actually gave Luke a redemption arc by making him a man with hope again by the end of TLJ.

And with so many here whining about how the movie doesn't fit their own fanfiction, they really missed some truly great moments in the film that even GL himself will be proud of. Remember the twin suns scene before Luke became one with the Force? That was a beautiful scene. Luke essentially ended the journey where he started back in ANH. The symmetry is just beautiful. The rebellion is reborn, the war has just started and there will be a new generation of Jedi.

Also everyone is talking about how Rey beat Luke when it was the other way around. He was beating Rey, dodging and blocking every hits by her and even took her staff away until Rey decided to used a lightsaber. Heck, he didn't even fall actually stopping himself with the Force. He did not continue the fight because Rey did not continue the fight. He just ripped off the roof of the hut just a few seconds earlier and you guys really think Rey bested Luke? Luke did not want to fight Rey because it was pointless.

TLJ actually incorporated a lot of elements from the EU but in their blind rage no one seem to have caught that.

I’m just confused how the FO still remained potent after losing Star Killer base. :lol

Oh well at least this movie had no death star.
 
I’m just confused how the FO still remained potent after losing Star Killer base. :lol

Oh well at least this movie had no death star.

Same reason the Empire still exists after the first death star destruction. Battlefront 2 actually gave some backstory on this. Apparently after the death of the emperor the Empire retreated into the outer rims to regroup and rebuilt into what is the FO. He literally has a plan for this in the event of his death.
 
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Unfortunately the OT era is no more. We have 40 years of fans who relate to Han, Luke and Leia. Now that they’re the age of retirement, Disney has their own idea of how to retire these heroes. I think people have trouble with this idea. Now that we have a new Han, Luke and Leia being Rey, Finn and Poe, it’s difficult to grasp. Unfortunately, the ST is tailored to a new generation where kids and teens will grasp with the OT and PT being relics. It’s sad but true. The new Star Tours has nothing but ST elements and while I was sad that this was done, I came to the realization that my Star Wars that I grew up with(I’m 31) is no longer there. I am accepting that this is a new direction. I liked the film a lot but if you can realize the baton has to be passed, you’ll be more accepting and enjoy. Very difficult to come to terms but times are changing and they can’t keep our original heroes as heroes anymore. War heroes are a thing of the past, while written in books to commemorate them and should always be honored, they will always be heroes in our eyes but if seen today are just old people. Similar to Han, Luke and Leia, they will not have the same impact or role they had in the OT in the now ST. Sad but true.

:goodpost:

These are my sentiments as well. As much as I want to see Luke be the hero again in this ST, I feel the whole point of it is to focus on Rey and Kylo, and Luke (as well as the rest of the OT cast) is merely meant to serve as a side character that just helps their story along. The focus isn't meant to be on them anymore, they had their moment and their trilogy.

I personally think it would have been interesting if they killed Leia, and that was the motivating factor to finally push Luke into getting involved in the fray again, being that the FO killed both Han and Leia, and the final scene of TLJ was Luke reaching into a chest for his green lightsaber from RotJ that he had stored away, indicating that ***** was about to get real in episode IX. However, I realize that this would again be putting the focus on Luke and not on the character(s) that they want the focus to be on.
 
Same reason the Empire still exists after the first death star destruction. Battlefront 2 actually gave some backstory on this. Apparently after the death of the emperor the Empire retreated into the outer rims to regroup and rebuilt into what is the FO. He literally has a plan for this in the event of his death.

They scraped all their tech and uniforms in 30 years and built everything from a scratch including Starkiller base. Without any resources and money since core worlds rebelled and joined the New Republic. Amazing :D
 
They scraped all their tech and uniforms in 30 years and built everything from a scratch including Starkiller base. Without any resources and money since core worlds rebelled and joined the New Republic. Amazing :D

I wouldn't say that since they still clearly use the Tie Fighter, Star Destroyer, AT-AT, AT-ST and I am sure other stuff I missed. FO is just an evolution from the remnants of Empire. At the height of the Empire, they literally own the whole galaxy. One has to expect that even after the Empire was brought down, there are still a lot of their resources hidden and scattered all over the galaxy.
 
I’m just confused how the FO still remained potent after losing Star Killer base. :lol

The only rationale I can think of is that it should have been a devastating blow except that they had successfully used it on the Republic shortly before it was destroyed, apparently wiping out most of the good guys' fleet in the process? Thus the First Order's fleet had hardly anything to oppose it.

I still have a major problem with how they managed to get to the position they did in the first place though. Even if there's a decent explanation in books or whatever it doesn't change the fact that it's too repetitious of what we saw in the OT...and still makes the victories of ROTJ seem utterly wasted and pointless.
 
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Unfortunately the OT era is no more. We have 40 years of fans who relate to Han, Luke and Leia. Now that they’re the age of retirement, Disney has their own idea of how to retire these heroes. I think people have trouble with this idea. Now that we have a new Han, Luke and Leia being Rey, Finn and Poe, it’s difficult to grasp. Unfortunately, the ST is tailored to a new generation where kids and teens will grasp with the OT and PT being relics. It’s sad but true. The new Star Tours has nothing but ST elements and while I was sad that this was done, I came to the realization that my Star Wars that I grew up with(I’m 31) is no longer there. I am accepting that this is a new direction. I liked the film a lot but if you can realize the baton has to be passed, you’ll be more accepting and enjoy. Very difficult to come to terms but times are changing and they can’t keep our original heroes as heroes anymore. War heroes are a thing of the past, while written in books to commemorate them and should always be honored, they will always be heroes in our eyes but if seen today are just old people. Similar to Han, Luke and Leia, they will not have the same impact or role they had in the OT in the now ST. Sad but true.

It's not about having new heroes. It's about telling coherent stories up to the standard of quality and similar tone and message of the old movies.

The big problem where I take offense to your post is why shouldn't heroes of the past be honored. They aren't "just old people" as you insultingly put it. They should be revered, maintaining thier dignity to the end without having thier legacy sullied by a message deaconstructing hero worship that 100% does not belong in a Star Wars film.

The OT and the PT are not "relics". He'll, the PT is barely 10 years old. They are classic films that are just as relatable to the kids of today as the ones of 40 years ago. This thread is filled with examples of members with kids who continue to love the OT. Those films do not deserve to have thier continuing legacy disrespected or retired to the past they don't belong in yet.

Most Disney cartoons are as old if not older than these films. And the Harry Potter films are just as old as the PT. Are you going to claim those are "relics" that kids don't watch either? Some things just hit that magic spot of being universally appealing to that thier age is literally just a number.
 
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

It's not about having new heroes. It's about telling coherent stories up to the standard of quality and similar tone and message of the old movies.

I think what they're saying, is that coherence is for old people. Internal logic is no longer necessary to suspend disbelief. You just take in fiction from one moment to the next, looking at the pretty colors and faces with words coming out of them. Occasionally the faces say nice things about Hope and Justice. Kids like Hope and Justice. Then more stuff happens. Explodey stuff. Then more talk about feelings.

Implicitly, what I'm hearing is that we as adults have an obligation to coddle these children, and refrain from telling them that they're idiotic; that the ideas made explicit within their work are not only incoherent, but advocating perceptions of the world that are blatantly false.

Hey, that's cool. Aesthetics are subjective, and there's no obligation to use one's brain.
 
Enjoying the new Star Wars Lexicon:

Broom Boy

Space Leia

Mooraffe



Some here will have these dolls on their shelf. I hope the names stick.




She approved it because it fit with her agenda ...

(1) Let the past die (Lucas and his legacy) - the movie goes out of its way to dismantle both the OT and the PT - the way is clear for the next generation to enjoy Kathleen's Star Wars .... And what is that?

(2) Kathleen's Star Wars is about pushing her version of a 'modern' 'liberal' agenda (I'm not a conservative guy and this should appeal to me but it doesn't as it's too in your face and awkward):

(a) women's empowerment - Rey is awesome, Leia exhibits latent off the chart force powers, admiral hodu saves the fleet via self sacrifice, Rose's sister took out the dreadnaught also in a moment of sacrifice and Rose herself was there to keep Finn on message. Men are comedic relief side characters at best and / or the villains.

For many people their greatest childhood hero "Luke Skywalker" is now unrecognisable and his legacy tainted - he also gets bested by Rey and entertains the idea of killing his nephew wtf, all men suck I guess ... It seems that the message from the ST is that even if a man was once a hero in your eyes he will eventually let you down like Han and Luke (Leia is notably untainted by the failure stick, she has to rally round and pick up the slack where her husband and brother and son have failed her).

Gender politics does not need to be in Star Wars. I'd have been plenty happy with a well rounded female protagonist character being the hero of the ST but not at the expense of all the male characters left alive in the saga - that's just weak and a bad example for kids. Both sexes should be equally important.

(b) anyone can be the hero - I don't mind this idea but it just feels ill timed to me. The main saga (episodes 1 to 9) are supposed to be about the Skywalker family. I'd be happy for accio broomstick Harry Potter kid to be at the very end of 9 like hey that's the end of the Skywalker saga kids but the important thing to remeber is that anyone can be the hero in real life (but unlike Rey you will actually have to work hard... like Luke did in the OT).

We are now going into 9 and the only two Skywalker's left (I know they are Solos) are Leia (who can't really be in it sadly) and Kylo the villian who has already failed to turn in 9. Kylo the last Skywalker is bad and seemingly irredeemable (kill them all no survivors) against Rey (anyone can be a hero). It's just a weird and an uninteresting way to set up the final chapter in the Skywalker saga.

(3) political correct casting - no problem with this but if you really want to go with shades of gray in your story why not reflect that in your casting and have some of the bad guys also be from different ethnicities?

I expect this movie will make bank easily because it's Star Wars. They will explain away the fan backlash by saying us older fans got butt hurt over these new liberal ideas, we can't accept change and that the movie ain't for us ... I anticipate Rian will also be offered as a sacrifice to us and his trilogy (that was likely just a marketing ploy) will be 'taken away'. Kathleen will still reign supreme and won't be phased by any of this... I expect she anticipated it all.

Now that I think about it, she is actually the real life Darth Sidious haha, she betrayed and murdered her master (well Lucas's legacy), she was the real threat to the Star Wars that we grew up with all along and like the Jedi many of us were blind to it and now our interest in the franchise is gone ... Lastly (and this is her killer stroke) she has corrupted our children lol and just like Anakin they believe her Nu Star Wars is Star Wars. At least obi wan could opt out become a hermit... I'm going to have to watch these films over and over with my kid!!!

Much truth here. I think many of us, people who like this movie and those who don't, have been saying these tings for a long time.

It's come to pass in such a blatant way.
 
LOL i'm actually ****ing irritated. A movie has not done that to me in a long time. (maybe getting older have less tolerance for BS)
 
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Didn't GL at one point state that the target audience for the OT was intended to be kids? And that he was surprised at how popular it became among general audiences?
 
I like how a lot of you are ******** on Johnson for his treatment of Luke when that was really all JJ. JJ started the ball rolling when he decided that Luke was a coward who ran away from the fight after his failure with Ben Solo and then decided to spend the rest of his life on a secluded island.

If anything Rian actually gave Luke a redemption arc by making him a man with hope again by the end of TLJ.

And with so many here whining about how the movie doesn't fit their own fanfiction, they really missed some truly great moments in the film that even GL himself will be proud of. Remember the twin suns scene before Luke became one with the Force? That was a beautiful scene. Luke essentially ended the journey where he started back in ANH. The symmetry is just beautiful. The rebellion is reborn, the war has just started and there will be a new generation of Jedi.

Also everyone is talking about how Rey beat Luke when it was the other way around. He was beating Rey, dodging and blocking every hits by her and even took her staff away until Rey decided to used a lightsaber. Heck, he didn't even fall actually stopping himself with the Force. He did not continue the fight because Rey did not continue the fight. He just ripped off the roof of the hut just a few seconds earlier and you guys really think Rey bested Luke? Luke did not want to fight Rey because it was pointless.

TLJ actually incorporated a lot of elements from the EU but in their blind rage no one seem to have caught that.

Don't agree that it was Luke being cowardly because he chose to retreat to solitude. So what does greatness do, exactly, when greatness builds a castle and finds out it's standing on sand? "Some say Luke went looking for the First Jedi temple". (Not like Yoda hadn't done more or less the same thing when there was rot in his own house, babies got slaughtered, Jedi mowed down, etc. Oh, yeah, then we have Obi-wan hangin' in the desert with the sand people. Not like any other Jedi grabbed their light saber, marched up to the Emperor and said **** u.) Also, Luke didn't have years and years interacting with other older Jedi. 'Coz they were dead (in spite of being Jedi).:cool:

Ben Kenobi had apparently gathered a few followers and left. Luke had to struggle to his feet and look around at the rest of the bodies, and also cope with now knowing Ben had the same taint that Luke's father had. Years earlier Luke had refused to kill his own father.

Now one solution is to kill his nephew. But even if he does that, Ben had followers who also embraced the Dark Side. There are impossible choices. IMO it's reasonable in Luke's solitude that he might come to the conclusion the best hope is to destroy all of it, dark and light. (And that he'd pitch his light saber when it shows up again like a bad penny - a scene that also seems to outrage people, tho my theater laughed and I thought it was hilarious:monkey3).

So IMO that's part of some of the upset TLJ is getting. That there are *realistic* depictions of how someone would face devastation. Not the blandly neat, we-barely-mention, G-rated treatment of slaughter and corruption of previous films. For me it's what made TLJ interesting. Kylo and Luke, struggling with choices. Not all nice and neat like a kiddie book. It's different.

And for that Kylo's been called "emo" and Luke a "coward". I really hadn't understood that to a lot of fans, doubt/failure is completely unacceptable:horror. No sissy introspection or tears or confusion from our heroes!:cool:

250px-Terminator-2-judgement-day.jpg

What did bother me is that Yoda finally shows up, at the last. That's nice. Because to me it came across that only when Luke is at a breaking point, his old mentors decide to make an appearance. Great. Not like Luke couldn't have used some support earlier - but whatever.:google

'Coz IMO there's some issues in the film - but SW to me is always like that. A lot of films are *shrug*. I'm looking forward to seeing it again. As far as fan outrage - yeah, it's there, from some; but it's also true that it's more likely that folks tend to post complaints more than positive stuff.

https://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office-1202643146/
Disney-Lucasfilm’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” is set to take over the box office in its opening weekend, raking in around $215 million from 4,232 North American sites.

Including $45 million from Thursday previews — the second-largest Thursday night preview total ever, below “Star Wars: The Force Awakens'” 2015 total of $57 million — the tentpole film brought in $104 million from Friday, and is looking to add over $100 million between Saturday and Sunday.

The total gross will make “The Last Jedi” the fourth film in domestic box office history to make over $200 million in its first weekend, joining “The Force Awakens” with $248.8 million, “Jurassic World” with $208.8 million, and 2012’s “The Avengers” with $207.4 million. “The Last Jedi” will finish significantly above Star Wars spinoff “Rogue One,” which opened with $155.1 million on the same weekend a year ago.

No way the next film doesn't make millions too.
 
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Didn't GL at one point state that the target audience for the OT was intended to be kids? And that he was surprised at how popular it became just among general audiences?

Ok, but as we have gone over dozens of times by now it isn't for just them regardless of original intention. No more than Harry Potter or Superheroes are. Some things just hit that magic spot and are appealing to everyone.

Hell, you have a Superman avatar. Wasn't he originally intended just for kids?

Plus, even if that was the truth, explain the Senate debates in Episode 1. Every word of that went right over my head when I first saw that movie.
 
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