Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Amphion]

Re: The Last Jedi

I've come to the conclusion that Star Wars fan will hate everything that isn't OT.

I agree. I had almost no issues with this movie. I love OT and I love this as well. Prequels are garbage though.

 

[crows]

If it doesn’t break a billion it will be a colossal failure for Disney. But IMO this will likely get to $1.5B globally due to the holidays and positive critic reviews. They’ve somehow managed to show a different version of this movie to the critics than what we saw in theaters LMAO!!

They own the critics. They've owned them for some time now. The corporate machine in this country is disgusting.

I dont even think disney needs to bribe critics,

I think critics are just scared to go against the mouse,
You never know what happens to any critic that goes against the mouse,
I think disney is at a point where they are so intimidating that critics just rather ride the wave

 

[Jme_c]

I can't believe they have now bought out 20th Century Fox as well!

This news makes me sad!

 

[klwn]

The story arc group should have sat down and created a rough outline for the entire trilogy and said to the directors this is where we want to go with it, but you can tell it how you want! Instead it feels as though they have no ****ing clue where they're taking it and just letting each director do whatever the **** they want!

I would be interested to know what JJ's take is on the film after he set up so much potential storylines and reveals in TFA.

That's what Marvel does, which is why their movies interconnect so well despite the ridiculous number of directors, writers and characters.

I think I mentioned it before, but a few months ago it was made clear in an interview that Lucasfilm wasn't doing that. They gave Rian Johnson pretty much total control as long as Kathleen Kennedy approved, pretty much nothing was planned.

I have heard people say that JJ is an executive producer on the movie, and therefore approved all this. First, I doubt he had much of a say and I think it's more of an honorary title, second he didn't know during production that he was going to helm Episode IX. The change of director for IX happened way into post-production on TLJ.

 

[DarkChocobi]

I can't believe they have now bought out 20th Century Fox as well!

This news makes me sad!

..have some milk

 

[Khev]

And going back to this exchange:

Plus while you are right that there had to be a first Jedi, that first Jedi had to have studied and meditated over decades to gain that power. Rey just has them one day.

Actually no according to TFA and TLJ.

Hence why everyone is pissed; because yes according to every single other movie.

No, not "according to every single other movie." Because right from the beginning (SW/ESB) the Jedi were presented as a religion ("you my friend are all that's left of their religion") with certain characters even using slang like "then I'll see you in hell" and "pray I don't alter it any further." That always fascinated me, way before the PT, that anyone in the OT would consider the Jedi way a religion or that characters in the SW universe would understand the concept of praying to a divine power or being sent to an afterlife based on how they lived their lives.

And even though I think the are garbage and I dismiss them the fact that the PT has a prophecy also speaks of divine providence. Because prochecies don't come true because of hard work and training. They come true because forces beyond human understanding say they will, period. And the moment SW attaches itself to theological themes then that opens the door for divine entity to respond to those who train (similar to how the Bible in our world has a list of instructions and disciplines to follow) and those who don't (David killing Goliath with a slingshot or Samson bludgeoning a highly trained Philistine army to death with the jawbone of an ***.) And that's just the Christian Bible. I'm sure you could take any religion and find many examples of people who commune with a higher power through fasting, praying and meditating juxtaposed with those who are simply "chosen."

And that's what SW has always latched itself on to. However since the theology of the Saga has never been more than backdrop to the individual character conflicts it just hasn't been something that it's spelled out in much detail. I believe that that's always been intentional because George never wanted SW or the Force or Jedi to be an allegory for a specific set of religious beliefs (unlike say the Chronicles of Narnia.)

So Yoda and Ben becoming powerful through years of devoted training is fine, and Luke blowing up a Death Star or Rey resisting Kylo after a single pep talk from a mentor is also fine.

 

[crows]

I can't believe they have now bought out 20th Century Fox as well!

This news makes me sad!

Feige knows what he is doing though,

None of marvel movies have had this kind of reaction,

Marvel has had a plan for the past 10 years

Marvel saved spiderman from oblivion


You cannot compare


Besides pixar has had nothing but home runs over and over and has had extreme success with fans,

Look at coco, one of the highest rated disney movies


Blaming disney is bullcrap

This all falls on " THE FORCE IS FEMALE" Kathleen Kennedy

She is single handedly destroying star wars.

 

[Chakor]

After reading every thread about Star Wars in the history of threads here and on other forums/sites; I'm convinced that most people have waaay too much time on their hands and don't realize that anything after 1983 is just a glorified toy ad.

FTFY.

The Forced Awakening.

 

[crows]

Glorified toy ad....

When are we gonna get a lego set of luke milking those blue *******?

 

[SNIKT1950]

Feige knows what he is doing though,

None of marvel movies have had this kind of reaction,

Marvel has had a plan for the past 10 years.

A plan of mediocrity.

 

[Khev]

The vampire love story is way better than pointless Snoke and Rey. It literally takes ZERO effort to not give the characters a background after the last film created so many mysteries. People defended the last film because they believed ep.9 had the answers. It didn't. The characters didn't grow...nothing happened. Lazy.

That's not true. I give some of you a hard time for being millennials but there's been quite a few times that you young ones have typed something that made me go "nice, good point." So don't fall in line with the "mass hysteria crowd" on this one, Clown.

Luke, Rey, and Kylo all grew in the film, as did Poe.

And not giving Snoke a backstory is not lazy in a space opera that deals largely in archetypes. These films *can* get away with characters who are simply "evil ***hole in a chair" (ROTJ Emperor/Snoke), "evil ***hole on a slab" (Jabba), "evil ***hole with a gun" (ESB/ROTJ Fett), etc. Especially when they are anchored by more nuanced and layered villains like OT Vader and ST Kylo.

Remember in ESB Fett didn't even have a name! Nor did Palpatine in ROTJ.

 

[ShadowX81]

No, not "according to every single other movie." Because right from the beginning (SW/ESB) the Jedi were presented as a religion ("you my friend are all that's left of their religion") with certain characters even using slang like "then I'll see you in hell" and "pray I don't alter it any further." That always fascinated me, way before the PT, that anyone in the OT would consider the Jedi way a religion or that characters in the SW universe would understand the concept of praying to a divine power or being sent to an afterlife based on how they lived their lives.

And even though I think the are garbage and I dismiss them the fact that the PT has a prophecy also speaks of divine providence. Because prochecies don't come true because of hard work and training. They come true because forces beyond human understanding say they will, period. And the moment SW attaches itself to theological themes then that opens the door for divine entity to respond to those who train (similar to how the Bible in our world has a list of instructions and disciplines to follow) and those who don't (David killing Goliath with a slingshot or Samson bludgeoning a highly trained Philistine army to death with the jawbone of an ***.) And that's just the Christian Bible. I'm sure you could take any religion and find many examples of people who commune with a higher power through fasting, praying and meditating juxtaposed with those who are simply "chosen."

And that's what SW has always latched itself on to. However since the theology of the Saga has never been more than backdrop to the individual character conflicts it just hasn't been something that it's spelled out in much detail. I believe that that's always been intentional because George never wanted SW or the Force or Jedi to be an allegory for a specific set of religious beliefs (unlike say the Chronicles of Narnia.)

So Yoda and Ben becoming powerful through years of devoted training is fine, and Luke blowing up a Death Star or Rey resisting Kylo after a single pep talk from a mentor is also fine.

So because it's a allegory for religion, basically it's anyhthing goes even though the rules previously set up in this universe contradict it?

We can debate religion all day (And believe me, im always up for it) but at the end of the day all it comes down to is that this series had established rules for how the force manifests itself in people as nothing but potential cannot be tapped into without training.

 

[crows]

That's not true. I give some of you a hard time for being millennials but there's been quite a few times that you young ones have typed something that made me go "nice, good point." So don't fall in line with the "mass hysteria crowd" on this one, Clown.

Luke, Rey, and Kylo all grew in the film, as did Poe.

And not giving Snoke a backstory is not lazy in a space opera that deals largely in archetypes. These films *can* get away with characters who are simply "evil ***hole in a chair" (ROTJ Emperor/Snoke), "evil ***hole on a slab" (Jabba), "evil ***hole with a gun" (ESB/ROTJ Fett), etc. Especially when they are anchored by more nuanced and layered villains like OT Vader and ST Kylo.

Who willl be the villain for part 9?????

At least the emperor lasted until the END of part 6.... at least...

Even if u didnt know much about him, he was there till the end pulling the strings, baiting luke, controlling vader...

 

[Khev]

So because it's a allegory for religion, basically it's anyhthing goes even though the rules previously set up in this universe contradict it?

As I said before it's not a contradiction. "So the Force controls your actions?" "Partially, but it also obeys your commands." People tend to forget the "partially" part. Or "once you take the quick and easy path, consume you it will." Even in the bedrock of SW/ESB they established that the Force can and does have a will of it's own and that it can take control of people and situations either partially or fully depending on the circumstance.

All that was contradicted by TFA and TLJ were people's assumptions. Similar to Vader in ESB contradicting audiences beliefs with regard to his relation to Luke.

 

[Rainpaulo]

This confirms to me what I've believed for sometime... Disney pays off the critics.
Bang average film getting top marks from the critics and panned by the watching public. Wb take note.

 

[Khev]

Who willl be the villain for part 9?????

Kylo obviously.

 

[Jme_c]

What even happened to these so called Knights of Ren?

 

[ShadowX81]

As I said before it's not a contradiction. "So the Force controls your actions?" "Partially, but it also obeys your commands." People tend to forget the "partially" part. Or "once you take the quick and easy path, consume you it will." Even in the bedrock of SW/ESB they established that the Force can and does have a will of it's own and that it can take control of people and situations either partially or fully depending on the circumstance.

Yes, and in order to grow closer to the force and become an actor of its will, you need training. Years of it. Anakin, Luke, everyone. Even Yoda had to train for hundreds of years to move an xwing. Rey does it all in her own.

Otherwise "rouge Jedi" would be popping up everywhere.

 

[Khev]

What even happened to these so called Knights of Ren?

We don't know. Maybe they became the Praetorian guards. Luke referenced them though so TLJ did acknowledge their existence.

 

[moose]

This is so funny so they do what they normally do with MArvel movies and now star wars fans are upset, really so its ok that marvel movies suffer from the same issues silly jokes, wasted side characters, plot point that are only introduced to advertise future movies and weak or undeveloped villains. All this happens with MArvel movies its what Disney does milk it and down it down to sell toys but because you fans put up with it they just apply the same thing to Star Wars and now you have a problem with it. HAHA