Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

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The Last Jedi OBJECTIVELY sucks. Your feelings are irrelevant.

There's been a lot of arguing between fans of Star Wars regarding whether or not The Last Jedi was a failure. I'm hoping I can help resolve the issue: It was a failure. There's no room for debate, argument, conjecture... We know it was a failure, for the same reasons we know that 2+2=4.

Many of you, including Johnson, the director, have argued that criticism of the film is unwarranted because aesthetics are subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and who are we, the angry critics of an idiotic film, to tell you what you should like. Herein lies the problem: Aesthetics are not relevant to the majority of criticisms toward the movie. The primary issue involves internal logic, both within the film and franchise.

I'll give you an example. Language is subjective in terms of how we define it. When someone stipulates a definition, we agree to that definition for practical reasons but we're not bound to it. So if I point to a chair and say, "I call these Weebles", we can have a conversation about chairs, calling them Weebles, and the conversation will be intelligible. However, once you stipulate a word as a constant, IT HAS TO REMAIN CONSTANT for a conversation to be intelligible.

If I started using words in this post that I subjectively define for myself, without any adherence to the logical structure of the English language or any regard for how English words have been stipulated, my ability to communicate breaks down:

Flibbidy sboogle flot, em ne hinny begot snivot smelinky chelt forgal smoot!

The previous sentence is essentially what Johnson provided us, as fiction, with the Last Jedi. He disregarded the internal logic of the film, and the film's franchise. As a result, it doesn't function as a narrative! You can't respond to that, saying "Well, language is subjective. I guess people reading that last sentence just aren't getting what they want!" No, it was gibberish. It doesn't function as communication. It fails to articulate a coherent thought. Same goes for The Last Jedi. It's gibberish.

So, for all of you defending The Last Jedi, confused as to why people are so angry, it's because Disney has proven itself to be incompetent. The fact that you liked this incompetent mess is irrelevant. The internal logic is broken in numerous places, so it's a failure.
 
How many pages since release?

This might be a record....


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Re: The Last Jedi OBJECTIVELY sucks. Your feelings are irrelevant.

Thank you!

I will also mention it took balls to post this as it's inevitable that you're going to get backlash from your bold statement.

But i wholeheartedly agree. Nothing more to say, there's no defending this.
 
Re: The Last Jedi OBJECTIVELY sucks. Your feelings are irrelevant.


Nope! This thread isn't just about the Last Jedi, but about how criticism ought to work. We should have a discussion about whether subjective tastes are the sole criteria in determining whether a movie sucks, or if the internal logic of a film is also relevant beyond subjective tastes. Can we make objective statements about a film's failure, the way we'd criticize errors in math or logic? It's legitimate as a separate thread, because it's a different discussion.
 
Re: The Last Jedi OBJECTIVELY sucks. Your feelings are irrelevant.

This is how you fix it

, Rey is the first "Jedi" to fall in love and marry someone breaking the old Jedi traditions and is visited by Luke telling her how happy he is that she found the love he never had and that she she started the Jedi on a greater path. Finn and Rey have two kids one like 15 and one like 5, They are running from Kylo and they have been hiding on Jakku. Snoke didn't die he is a race of beings like multiple man and they are all connected like the borg, so he's still alive . Kylo eventually finds Finn alone with the kids and kills him and takes the kids, Rey find out and heads after Kylo. She finds Kylo and walks into the base force killing everyone like that ***** from Stranger things while Luke ghost is screaming stop Rey stop! She gets to the Throne room and wipes the floor with Kylo she's using force lighting and mother rage while trying to get her children back, she kills Kylo and snoke appears with the kids hold one , Rey has turned Sith her eyes are red and she is now evil and killed all the people on the base . Snoke laughs and says something like my plan has finally ended and it ends with him hold the baby and hand of the other kid while Reys eyes are glowing red!!!
 
Star Wars... born May 1977, Died Dec 2017 at the age of 40...a tragic death
 
If SW survived the PT it will easily survive this especially with these box office numbers.

Hey you don’t have to believe me just ask your uncle DiFabio and uncle Wor-Gar they won’t steer you wrong they’ll tell you.
 
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If SW survived the PT it will easily survive this especially with these box office numbers.

Hey you don’t have to believe me just ask your uncle DiFabio and uncle Wor-Gar they won’t steer you wrong they’ll tell you.

More proof that evolution of man is moving towards oblivion
 
I never said anything of the kind! Of course Luke was just a farmboy on a quest in the OT. But he became more than *after* the OT before it was all taken away again.

It was this quote that threw me off a bit.

And Johnson dared to strip even the great Luke Skywalker of his "legendary" status, to actually give him a real arc and give him an opportunity to prove himself when it wasn't all about him being the Chosen One's son and the galaxy's last hope.

I thought you were saying that Luke's arc was not real in the OT and the "it wasn't all about him being the chosen one" sounded like a slight.. Like that was the only reason he proved himself in the OT

Misunderstood your meaning I guess



Oh stop you're starting to sound like one of "them" now. :D

Every hive they step into in SW features the "worst kind of scum," these guys' particular vices just happened to be animal races, slaves, and lining their pockets with money earned directly from the First Order.

There are those on right and left who saw the same thing.. My very liberal Sister In law who has a doctorate in medical research (just pointing out she is not dumb :lol) stated how much she loved all the "messages" in the film..

When you talk about the worst people and then go to a rich looking snooty alien stroking his tentacle mustache it is pretty obvious what the joke is they were going for.

Like I said it took a bit to find out they were doing anything else except being rich. I also go by Hollywood's track record on such things :lol

Seems like there are a lot of people out there who think the same thing.


Again there are plenty of films that have little messages that I do and don't agree with.. It depends on the film if I feel like getting that sort of thing.. A Star Wars film is not the movie I want to have that in.. No matter if I agree with the message or not. Like Abusing animals.. I don't like it either.. But I don't need that message in a Star Wars film either.. Not in the ham fisted way they did it.

If the film/story been better it would be easy to ignore these things.
 
Mr Kotter,Juan Epstein,Horseshack and Freddie boom boom Washington > Disney star wars new world order
 
All I keep hearing Johnson say is how he's a "fan" and always has been!

I cannot see how I fan of Star Wars would have made this movie, I really don't!
 
All I keep hearing Johnson say is how he's a "fan" and always has been!

I cannot see how I fan of Star Wars would have made this movie, I really don't!

"I have been a Star Wars fan all my life, but if you give me the opportunity to make old super powerful Luke meet his equivalent in the dark side, I definitely won't let that happen because other fans are expecting it" - Rian Johnson
 
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