Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[higgins1989]

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was awful but it didn't kill Indy as a character nor did it betray his character. Can we say the same about Luke?

 

[Asta]

It's strange that in such an overt female empowerment movie, lactation would be so up-close and central (and I bet nobody even noticed the multi-boobage "lady" in the casino had many pairs, right?)

I missed her.

I was just looking for the name of the multi-breasted woman in ROTJ and couldn't believe this page existed:

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Breast/Legends

 

[Asta]

As for the social agenda, Jaws is right. If it wasn't poorly written no one would care.

That's the key for me. It was clumsy, and messy.

Like being hit on the head with a hammer like thatThuggee in Temple of Doom.

But still, you have to pull the good bits out of it as with the PT.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But didn't the gender agenda form much of the storyline, subplots and character motivations/treatment?

Yeah, but if they were great characters with great moments I wouldn't have cared. Like if Rose was half as good as her sister.

The combination agenda with poor characters is a double-whammy. There's nothing worse than a crap character telling you what to think.

 

[TaliBane]

I am glad we got Rogue One which in my opinion was the last great Star Wars movie, no natural disaster can ever be as bad as this movie.

I'm waiting for the standalone movie set the week before the battle of Hoth about a secret rebel mission to Ord Mantell to get data needed to destroy an ATAT factory - cameos with Bossk, Fett and Dengar, and a brief stop on Bespin.

 

[Asta]

Yeah, but if they were great characters with great moments I wouldn't have cared.

The combination agenda with poor characters is a double-whammy.

Good writing doesn't draw attention away from the story to its agenda, but implants its message more subtly, and with more lasting positive impact from the writer's point of view.

 

[TaliBane]

I missed her.

I was just looking for the name of the multi-breasted woman in ROTJ and couldn't believe this page existed:

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Breast/Legends

Whoa. Mind blown.

And even Kenner in the 80's knew a six-breasted winner when they saw one.

I still think the woman in Total Recall takes the weird-sci-fi-boobage prize though.

Thank the maker for Verhoeven. He put the "hoe" in the middle of "Very uneven" cinema... every time.

 

[Asta]

Whoa. Mind blown.

And even Kenner in the 80's knew a six-breasted winner when they saw one.

I still think the woman in Total Recall takes the weird-sci-fi-boobage prize though.

Thank the maker for Verhoeven. He put the "hoe" in the middle of "very uneven" cinema... every time.

I'm sure she's in the cantina somewhere. We just haven't looked hard enough.

 

[TaliBane]

Waiting for the mash-up gif of her and TLJ Luke in 10,9,8,7...

 

[higgins1989]

Waiting for the mash-up gif of her and TLJ Luke in 10,9,8,7...

What have you done, this time tomorrow there will be 10 pages filled with just that.

 

[Popnfresh98]

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was awful but it didn't kill Indy as a character nor did it betray his character. Can we say the same about Luke?

Quoted for truth. It was a dumpster fire in many ways but didn't betray Dr. Jones' legacy. For TLJ I'm going to follow Hamills train of thought and pretend it was Jake Skywalker...

I do hope they let bygones be bygones and not make another though. We don't need these aged heroes in geriatric adventures..

Waiting for the mash-up gif of her and TLJ Luke in 10,9,8,7...

Give this man a medal!

 

[Asta]

Waiting for the mash-up gif of her and TLJ Luke in 10,9,8,7...

And now for something serious from The New Statesman:

FILM
19 DECEMBER 2017
The Last Jedi is the first properly feminist Star Wars

Warning: spoilers and deconstruction of the patriarchy ahead.

Several years ago, some time after Revenge of the Sith but well before any of the latest crop of Star Wars films were announced, I wrote a humorous open letter in which I broke up with my boyfriend, Darth Vader. Really it was a plea for the internet and fandom to drop its Star Wars obsession. This was because all I could see, as a former Star Wars enthusiast, was endless and overwhelmingly male worship of a franchise which should have died when Queen Amidala did. The prequels had killed Star Wars, I thought, and I was tired of seeing the corpse still twitching.

My reluctant impatience wasn’t cured by the announcement of new films, particularly because they were to bring back Luke, Han, Chewie and Leia. I saw that as an attempt to capitalise on what made Star Wars great in the first place, but I have never believed you can go back by revisiting characters.

Everything from the hell of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull to the bafflingly dumb Gilmore Girls reboot failed precisely because it’s impossible to recapture in old age what was loved about youth. And I don’t mean just the characters, I mean the fans too. Everyone was taking Star Wars way too seriously, while I was always more in tune with Yoda comedically clambering around for snacks.

But of course old Star Wars fans die hard, so I went to see The Force Awakens and even enjoyed it. Fan service sat neatly alongside new characters. Rey was established as being as self-sufficient – “stop holding my hand!” – as Leia ever was, but without Leia’s royal resources. Rey is a true equal in a galaxy obsessed with balance.

But it still felt overwhelmingly like the domain of men. There has never been a female Star Wars director, and before Rey, the coolest characters were Luke and Han. The bad guys were precisely that, too – guys. Female role models were limited to Leia, a princess who began as a rebel with a blaster but was reduced to a pinup by the gold bikini slave costume Carrie Fisher eventually admitted was not her choice. That Leia used her chains against her captor doesn’t change the distinctly male gaze that turned that scene into a grubby bedroom fantasy for boys.

In the prequels, Queen Amidala couldn’t offer any feminist hope because her entire existence was to fulfill her biological destiny. Whatever character arc she was allowed was undone in the ridiculous and disrespectful birth scene in which Amidala, screaming in pain and seemingly trapped under some sort of metal band, gives birth to the twins she randomly names Luke and Leia, before dying of something (the film seems to want us to think it’s a broken heart, but given the midwife droids didn’t administer any pain relief, I suspect Amidala actually died from substandard medical care and the Skywalkers should sue).

But then, a new hope, for me. The Last Jedi is the first Star Wars film for women. (Massive spoilers ahead). Most obviously, there are women in The Last Jedi at every level, from high-ranking military to starship basements. I haven’t done a screen time count but if women aren’t onscreen – and speaking – for more time than any other Star Wars film I will eat my womp rat. New character Rose, played by Kelly Marie Tran, has a taser and a brain and isn’t afraid to use either. In an early scene, John Boyega’s Finn stands in front of her, mansplaining, until she loudly interrupts him because dude, shush. Lupita Nyong'o’s “wise old mysteriously foreign alien” Maz Kanata gets a frenetic action scene seemingly designed to make up for how poorly she was served in The Force Awakens.

There are no lone heroes in The Last Jedi, everything is a team effort, but what heroics there are truly belong to the ladies, from the very early bombing scene to the final rocky rescue. General Leia leads the rebellion, eventually replaced by Laura Dern’s Admiral Holdo after a bit of Force flying that lazy commenters compared with Mary Poppins because apparently 1964 was the last time a woman did anything cool on screen.

​Holdo takes charge of the rebellion fleet, but the cocky, Solo-esque half-hero of The Force Awakens, Poe Damaron, is exasperated by Holdo’s refusal to respect his superior manly tactics and mind, so leads a mutiny that in any other Star Warsfilm would have succeeded. It fails, because he doesn’t know what he’s doing and didn’t respect the vastly superior and more experienced woman above him.

Compare the dignified and graceful exchanges between Holdo – who eventually pulls off the most badass kamikaze move in sci fi history – and Leia to those between darkly brooding men’s rights activist Kylo Ren and the red-haired punchbag General Hux, who can’t share a scene without fighting because neither of them truly earned their position. Their respective scrambling and scrapping for power reveals an immaturity and insecurity in contrast to Poe Damaron’s arrogance but no less patriarchal for it. While the guys fight over power, the women simply get on with the job.

And that of course is why Kylo reacts as he does when his new love, Rey, rejects him and his offer to rule in favour of saving her friends, the rebellion, and ultimately the Force itself. Of course Kylo becomes even angrier and more violent, that’s exactly how men who feel entitled to sex but are denied it act. He’s a 2017 baddie. It’s almost like writer director Rian Johnson has done his feminist homework (or maybe just hangs around on Reddit like the rest of us).

The early scene of Kylo smashing his own helmet is another clue to Johnson’s brave new world. No more hiding behind silly masks, no more blind worship or fear of the masked man. Characters are stripped bare. Gwendoline Christie’s Captain Phasma is a sad victim of this, her helmet punctured to reveal a vulnerable but unrepentant eye, before she too is (presumably) killed off as belonging to the old order of silly helmets. It's sad to lose a female character – but clothes no longer maketh the woman, and she wasn’t given much more to work with than a fancy hat.

Rey’s rejection of Kylo’s love and power is a feminist triumph. Unlike Leia, who earns her credential as General but was adopted into royalty and born into her Skywalker family destiny, Rey is revealed to be absolutely nobody. I cheered, I cried. The Force Awakens was so desperately trying to hint that Rey’s parentage was Luke-and-Leia special and the internet was agog with speculation for months, but The Last Jedi threw that old trope into a trash compactor where it belongs.

Rey is herself, no resources inherited or bought, self-made with no help from anyone. Not even Luke, really. His rejection of her request for training, and the entire Jedi religion itself is what causes Rey to reinvent the Force on her own terms. Forget the Master/Padawan relationship, that stuff belongs to the failed patriarchy of the old films. New Star Wars belongs to a new generation, and this time it’s women.

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/film/2017/12/last-jedi-first-properly-feminist-star-wars

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

That's the key for me. It was clumsy, and messy.

Like being hit on the head with a hammer like thatThuggee in Temple of Doom.

But still, you have to pull the good bits out of it as with the PT.

Yep always have to weed out the good bits, but remind me.........what were the good bits again???

I do seriously struggle to come up with much of anything I liked about TLJ, which was not the case with TFA.

 

[DarkChocobi]

I would like to understand more about Rouge One and why it is such a great SW movie recently made.

Because of Gareth Edwars who really understand what is "Star Wars" is and manage to capture the "essence and feeling" ?

Even though RO was produced by Lucasfilm, why does it felt so much different compare with the Sequels ? (not story line). I could see theres almost no "Kathleen vibe" in that movie, except Jyn Erso is a leading actress, but portrayed completely diffrent than MaReySue. Is is because RO is the spin off directly to the ANH, so she wouldn't dare to mess with ? Or is it because is it just the "spin off" so she doesnt care much ?

 

[Asta]

Yep always have to weed out the good bits, but remind me.........what were the good bits again???

I do seriously struggle to come up with much of anything I liked about TLJ, which was not the case with TFA.

As with the PT, which is a largely painful experience until the last act of ROTS, it's mainly about the visuals.

And porgs.

And Mark Hamill in spite of his own feelings towards the direction.


More will probably emerge when a Blu-ray is copy becomes available.

 

[Asta]

I would like to understand more about Rouge One and why it is such a great SW movie recently made.

Because of Gareth Edwars who really understand what is "Star Wars" is and manage to capture the "essence and feeling" ?

Even though RO was produced by Lucasfilm, why does it felt so much different compare with the Sequels ? (not story line). I could see theres almost no "Kathleen vibe" in that movie, except Jyn Erso is a leading actress, but portrayed completely diffrent than MaReySue. Is is because RO is the spin off directly to the ANH, so she wouldn't dare to mess with ? Or is it because is it just the "spin off" so she doesnt care much ?

Jyn was Kennedy's first tentative step, giving her the confidence to go all out in TLJ.

However, RO had a clearly defined story. It had a clear purpose and a defined end point that it had to reach. It was also very familiar because it's right there with the OT, even though they made some changes to the stormtroopers and created some never before seen types.

I also like that it was mainly concerned with regular people, and not the battle between the light and dark force powers. It was more of a war movie following a special operations unit into enemy territory.

TLJ didn't seem to know where it was going. Rather than answering questions set up from TFA it either avoided them or subverted them.

 

[Popnfresh98]

I would like to understand more about Rouge One and why it is such a great SW movie recently made.

Because of Gareth Edwars who really understand what is "Star Wars" is and manage to capture the "essence and feeling" ?

Even though RO was produced by Lucasfilm, why does it felt so much different compare with the Sequels ? (not story line). I could see theres almost no "Kathleen vibe" in that movie, except Jyn Erso is a leading actress, but portrayed completely diffrent than MaReySue. Is is because RO is the spin off directly to the ANH, so she wouldn't dare to mess with ? Or is it because is it just the "spin off" so she doesnt care much ?

It feels that way because Kathy had a problem with it, remember all the reshoots? Whereas she wholeheartedly supported everything in TLJ. Perhaps RO could have been an even better movie had she not interfered... So yes I think Gareth Edwards 'got it' more than we would have imagined. Also being tied in its place in canon there wasn't much you could mess with in terms of adding new ideas or messing up characters people cared about.

 

[klwn]

Also Gareth Edwards is a genuine Star Wars nerd, the guy worships this universe. I'm not buying that from Rian Johnson, he changed too many things for someone that truly respects/loves the world of Star Wars.

 

[Asta]

Too many Sheilas?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/op...y/news-story/1292612be02b976fa4b88c21a9dc76a3

• The Australian
• 1:18PM December 21, 2017
• THE MOCKER
  
  
  
  
  @Oz_Mocker
  
  
  
  

“Remember,” said Obi-Wan Kenobi to a young Luke Skywalker in the first Star Wars film, “a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him”.

Talk about pale, male and stale. In the 40 years since, the series has become more progressive. “The Last Jedi,” proclaimed The Guardian, “is the most triumphantly feminist Star Wars movie yet.”

“Both in terms of women and non-white characters, there’s a celebratory inclusiveness that seems entirely in the Jedi spirit,” wrote film critic Anna Smith. “The Last Jedi depicts women as multifaceted, multi-generational, multiracial,” said Annalise Ophelian, author of Social Justice Practice in Documentary Filmmaking.

“It is a deeply empathetic story that explores the dangers of toxic masculinity, the competency of women, and the boxes we all must break out of to be free,” wrote Katyi Burt of movie review website Den of Geek.

Rejoice if you will at the demise of the patriarchy in that galaxy far, far away. You probably left the cinema with a sense of satisfaction at this blow for equality, thinking this film edgy and woke. But if you search your inner feelings there is a sense of disquiet — perhaps even disgust — at what has become the series’ central message. Disney is what we in the progressive movement call a “fake ally”.

At first glance, the film projects messages that appear consistent with feminist discourse. The women leaders of the Resistance are composed and serene, patiently demonstrating to the likes of Poe that men are testosterone-fuelled dullards. A suicide mission by Finn is portrayed as an act of male stupidity averted only by the intervention of a female character, Rose. Conversely, we applaud the selfless sacrifice of Vice-Admiral Holdo, who gave her life when she deliberately rammed her cruiser into an Imperial ship.


Luke, once the hero of the Rebellion, is withdrawn and depressed at having failed to prevent Ben Solo from turning to the Dark Side. As Burt correctly notes, failing to forgive oneself is symptomatic of the male ego.

Along comes Rey, a confident, bold, and white — I’ll return to that later — woman. She demands the Jedi Master train her in the ways of the Force, and her actions lift Luke out of his malaise. She does not kowtow to her male tutor nor address him as ‘Master’, and she even knocks him to the ground when demanding answers.

In reality, Disney reinforces male hegemony under the cloak of gender equality. Rey reverently caresses the sacred and ancient Jedi texts, oblivious of its misogynist tenets. They seemingly eschew anger, aggression and fear, holding that these are the pathway to the Dark Side. Instead the Jedi lauded stoicism, self-control, objective truths, and logic, but they are a ruse designed to control women.

As feminist scholars have demonstrated, logic and objectivity are patriarchal constructs. How naive was The Guardian in declaring feminism and inclusivity were consistent with the “Jedi spirit”? As we now know, subjective experience, the display of emotion, and the acknowledgment of multiple truths are the gateway to knowledge. Rey does not recognise this, but foolishly acquiesces in the Jedi’s oppressive ideology. Fail.

Rey is also oblivious to the fact that the remote Jedi island of Ahch-To is a hotpotch of misogyny and other forms of bigotry. Remember the curious fishlike creatures known as the “Caretakers” who do the domestic heavy lifting for Luke? “They’re all female, and I wanted them to feel like a remote sort of little nunnery,” said director Rian Johnson.

Seriously? And for all you people who ridicule the concept of intersectionality, what do you say of this callous speciesm on top of the misogyny? Instead of chastising a self-indulgent Luke for relying on the domestic servitude of females, Rey is a party to it, laughing at the Caretakers’ angst at seeing her damage a temple wall. There is little to no acknowledgment of the fact the inhabitants are indigenous. Despite the great diversity of the galaxy, its non-human inhabitants feature only sporadically, and usually as a source of amusement. It is an offensive stereotype. Fail.


Unfortunately the travesties only get worse, but even the most appalling one went undetected. Ahch-To is a place of rugged beauty and safety, but with one monstrous exception — the black pit, where the Dark Side lurks.

“The idea that if there’s a Jedi Temple up top, the light, it has to be balanced by a place of great darkness,” explained Johnson. “We’re drawing a very obvious connection to Luke’s training and to Dagobah here, obviously,” he said. Could the allegory be any more blatant, especially given Luke’s terror as Rey contemplates its presence? Think about it.

“In our society, men are scared of ******s,” wrote Huffington Post contributor June Eric-Udorie in 2014. “Men hate women simply because we have ******s instead of *****es — that is a fact.” Luke’s panic-stricken reaction to Rey’s contemplation is representative of this phobia, and it in turn reinforces the fiction that women’s bodies are something to be loathed and feared. Massive fail.

As for the remaining prejudices, stereotypes and microaggressions, the list is endless. When are the producers ditching the lightsaber, which we all know is a phallic anachronism? As for the hundreds of characters featured in this film, how many of them are in the LGBTI category? We do not want to hear patronising assurances that it was open for the audience to speculate, for as we know all too well an absence of overt acknowledgment defaults to a heterosexual cisgender ‘norm’. Why do we have to put up with offensive binary pronouns? Do you think it mere coincidence that the only kissing scene in the movie is one between a man and a woman?


Did it occur to you people gushing over the film’s supposedly feminist cred that all the women leaders were white? Was there any acknowledgment that — in addition to patriarchy — the Republic had been corrupted by hate speech and a failure to celebrate diversity? Did the producers not consider featuring any characters with a disability, or did they simply think that the token display of Luke’s mechanised hand absolved them of any ablelist biases?

General Leia Organa, the leader of the Resistance, is supposedly a feminist icon, but there is too much of the white saviour syndrome about her. The producers would insist they were attributing supernatural powers to her given her survival in a vacuum, but it appears they were secretly mocking women leaders by portraying her as a spaced out Mary Poppins.

How many of you cheered at the fiery demise of Captain Phasma, the evil female stormtrooper commander? On one hand it was closure for the psychologically-abused Finn, but in theory a woman and a person of colour should be allies. Seeing them fight was distressing, and I could not help but recall the prescient words of British Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott who in 2012 observed “White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game.”

Incidentally, has anyone asked George Lucas, the creator of Star Wars, what he thinks? Like Luke, he is now aged and bearded, and for all we know he is a recluse on some windswept island, desiring only solitude. Ask him about the Rebellion’s legacy and he is likely to tell you to piss off.

Can’t say I’d blame him.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Just wow,